# Ask the Pakistani Guy.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 2, 2008, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972 "2008-01-02T06:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/41 "2009-01-06T09:29:30Z")
By the way, this makes me think of a question. Are Pakistanis afraid of a potential conflict with India? Does it seem only a remote possibility to them, or at the contrary a very real risk? What about nuclear weapons? Do people think seriously they could be used someday, or not? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/42 "2009-01-06T09:33:59Z")
> [@ShakWave](#): > > Just jumped in to thank AK84 for answering all the questions. Most of the answers are pretty accurate, but I have a slightly different opinion about the emergency services situation. The Government based emergency services are woefully inadequate. AK84, I dont know what city you’re from but I’m sure that 95% of the ambulances I’ve seen in Karachi are the Edhi ambulances or some other private hospital’s ambulances. The Government hospitals are mismanaged, underfunded and quite inefficient. However, there are a lot of charity funded private hospitals and trusts that provide healthcare to poor people. Yes thats true. They are however excellent in Lahore, Islamabad and Peshawar. As I said Ambulences are are under district competance. With 108 districts across the country (and rising) the level of service would vary…a lot. The assertion in Annamika’s post was that Ambulence services did not exist. The problem that Karachi has is that it is too big. And the ethnic divisions of Karachi ensure that resources are split unevenly. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/43 "2009-01-06T09:51:10Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > By the way, this makes me think of a question. Are Pakistanis afraid of a potential conflict with India? Does it seem only a remote possibility to them, or at the contrary a very real risk? What about nuclear weapons? Do people think seriously they could be used someday, or not? Good question. There is no _potential_ conflict with India, there _is a_ conflict with India, in Kashmir there are major fire fights, which sometimes develop into division level engagements. Indian shelling on the LOC has driven tens of thousands from their homes on the Pakistani side since 1989 and destroyed whole towns… and Pakistani shelling would have done the same had there been any major concentration of civilians on the Indian side (I am sure therehave been a few who suffered) but the the Indian area near the LOC is less populated than ours from what I hear, with the exception of Poonch area. [A BBC documentary from 1998 on the conflict.](http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nda5zZUFNsI) As for nuclear war, well thats something we all hope never comes to pass. Could they be used, well they exist, they are mated to launchers so yes they could be used. Will they? I doubt it. Niether country is suicidal. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/44 "2009-01-06T10:36:38Z")
> [@mallurox](#): > > I will have to disagree with some of your assertions. I get the impression that you are suggesting that Kashmir is an extension of Pakistan on cultural, religious and geographical grounds. And therefore a claim exists on that state. But by the same [incorrect] logic Pakistan can be considered an extension of India! Forget Kashmiri culture, Pakistani culture is not alien to most Indians. I am from the deepest South of India, and can speak to you in Hindi and smatterings of Urdu. I can offer you a meal in my home that will not be very different from yours [just vegetarian though]. There are contiguous roads leading to and from the sub continent. > > A Muslim majority population in a state or area is irrelevant when thinking of India. Pakistan draws itself from a theistic perspective first. We in India have a 100 + billion people, with varying shades of belief, resources, poverty, intelligence and culture. We cannot see ourselves as One thing. We are many things, and being Indian is one of them. So just because someone is Muslim doesnt make him/her any different than any other Indian. > > The real beef in Kashmir is this - to accept that a Muslim majority state must secede and cannot stay in an Indian Union is to accept Jinnah’s Two-Nation theory, that a Hindu majority and a Muslim minority cannot coexist in the same society. We have a large muslim population, we have a fairly large Christian population, we have Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists,Jews etc etc. For large parts of the day we get along. Whats so difficult about that?? > > Kashmir is also of strategic importance militarily [terrain] and besides religious reasons [which i reject] i have heard no sensible reasons to support the secession of Kashmir. > > I was compelled to respond to AK84’s post as i could not let it go, but i do not wish to derail or hijack the thread. I think it makes for excellent reading. Nice to get your opinion. 1. Kashmir “cannot” seceed, it is not part of India, it is a disputed territory (as recognized by UN Security Council resolutions). 2. You impression about my saying that Kashmir has little in common with India is right. Yes India is diverse (so is Pakistan we have spomething like 72 different languages). Kashmir has more in common with Pakistan, geographically, ethnically and culturally. Geographically for instance, Kashmirs main market before independence was Rawalpinidi. Even now most of Kashmirs. Kashmiris have ethnic links with Pashtuns to the west, Baltis to the Northa and Potoharis to the South. They have no ethnic or linguistic links to Punjabis or Tamils. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/45 "2009-01-06T10:48:28Z")
> [@SomeBodyUK](#): > > My family’s from Indian Punjab, from a village which was heavily muslim before partition, my family maintains pirs’ (Muslim saint’s) shrines. I feel a strong affinity towards Pakistani Punjabis, they’re the same as me, apart from religion. My father spoke Urdu (which I consider an Indian language, rather than an Islamic language as some people claim). > > My neighbours in UK are Pakistani, we speak the same language, eat the same food etc. When there’s a bunch of Indians and Pakistanis at the same function, you can’t even tell who’s who unless they wear religious clothes. > > What’s this shit about Indians and Pakistanis having nothing in common? What you feel is of course up to you. I have read a lot of literature written by Irish writers, visisted it on occasion and I feel an affinity for the place and its culture. Dose’nt make me Irish or them Pakistani. Pakistani Punjabis would disgaree with you immensly about there being an “affinity” between them and you. The Punjab suffered heavily during independence, and then during the wars, there is a LOT of dislike for “Bharat” over there, I am not saying that it is right, I am saying that it exists. Incidentally, there there is a big difference between “Punjab” and the Province of the Punjab, the latter is a multi-cultural entity, the North speaks a languge called Potohari, in the west there is Pashto, the SOuth West; Balochi, in the South Seriaki, all languages which are different from Punjabi, which incidentally has several dialects of its own, for instance the Lahori version (the only version spoken in India), the Gujrati, the Faisalabadi and the Multani. Pakistani diaspora in the UK is as representative of Pakistan as Irish-Americans in the US are representatives of the Republic of Ireland or Scots-Irish are of Northern Ireland. I can’t speak for you neighbours, but I am living in the UK and will do until July and I see a difference…right away. I have Indian friends as well ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/46 "2009-01-06T10:53:12Z")
> [@BaneSidhe](#): > > Hi there, and welcome to the Board. My question is what kind of horses live in Pakistan? Whoa! Stumped me there. I’ll admit that my knowledge on that issue is very poor, I know how to ride (my dad was army and he insisted that I learn, and I hated it) but thats about it, and I have not willingly ridden since I was 14 (and did not was pretty unwilling before then). I think googling would get you a good answer, but there is a tradition in some districts of dancing horses. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/47 "2009-01-06T11:21:54Z")
**AK84** , I’d still like to know why **Anaamika’s** question was stupid? It has not been my experience around here that she asks stupid questions, and the question itself seems perfectly reasonable for someone who doesn’t live there and who only has the perspective she gets from the media. So what’s the prob? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/48 "2009-01-06T12:03:06Z")
I cannot comment on Annamika’s perchant or lack thereof for asking stupid or intelligent questions, I generally presume that all people are reasonably intelligent and I am sure she is. Her question was stupid because asking whether or not a government provides services is like asking whether or not a someone breaths oxygen, its the governments purpose to provide services. ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/49 "2009-01-06T12:11:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > **AK84** , I’d still like to know why **Anaamika’s** question was stupid? It has not been my experience around here that she asks stupid questions, and the question itself seems perfectly reasonable for someone who doesn’t live there and who only has the perspective she gets from the media. > > So what’s the prob? A knight in shining armour? 🙂 I too have a generally positive impresion of **Anaamika** , and frankly, even I thought the question was a tad silly. Is the government concerned with the welfare of its people? Pretty much any country in the world the answer would be ‘yes and no’. I do owe her thanks, though, for posting about Mr Edhi. I hadn’t heard of him prior to her/ **AK84** ’s post and his is a foundation I can see myself contributing to. On topic, are there any areas where Indian products or services are a part of everyday life in Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/50 "2009-01-06T12:45:06Z")
Products… well some type of clothes (sarees mainly, but there are good Pakistani designers now and Sarees are now considered formal wear) and some spices, red marble from Rajestan. Can’t really think of much else. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/51 "2009-01-06T13:10:19Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > A very specific question. A while ago I read a National Geographic article about the state of emergency care in Pakistan, specifically ambulances. I was somewhat appalled to learn that there weren’t any, not for a long time, until one man - his name escapes me at the moment - started using his station wagon to transport people to hospital. Over the years he built it up until he has a fleet of cars, but there is no government or medical support for him, and he just manages to do it on his own. When I was a freshman in college, one of my very good friends in my dorm was Indian. Not Indian-American, but an international student. I was eighteen and not particularly worldly, and once, when he was trying to explain to me the great socioeconomic gulf between middle class America and India, _this_ was the exact example he chose. He asked me what I would do if I fell down and seriously injured myself. Well, I’d dial 911, of course, I told him. And he told me that this was the difference between the US and India - in the US, I could expect an ambulance to show up and take care of me. In India, he told me, I’d be very, very lucky if any kind of ambulance showed up, ever. FWIW, he was from Delhi, not some rural area in the middle of nowhere. I’m not picking on India, but to point out _why_ this is a silly question. All countries want to provide services to their citizens, but many developing nations simply don’t have the resources to do everything they’d like. The implication that Pakistan doesn’t care about its citizens’ welfare because they don’t have ambulances is a bit naive; I suspect that there are about 30 nations in the world, _tops_, that have functioning, useful emergency medical care. They sure as hell don’t have it in the EU country I spent the last two years. (I lucked out in that I lived right next door to the emergency health clinic. If I’d ever needed it, I could have shouted to them.) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/52 "2009-01-06T13:23:46Z")
On the issue of Emergency rescue in 1 province; here are the [statistics.](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C07%5C22%5Cstory_22-7-2008_pg7_42) The service is know as 1122. Before 2004, there were multiple services around the country. It was reorganised under the Police Act 2002 and implemented fully by 04. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/53 "2009-01-06T14:55:06Z")
I will see if I can find the National Geographic article. It was a very good article, and I did come away with the impression that there was a dearth of public services in Pakistan. Quite frankly, if questions are now going to be considered “stupid”, I’d rather just keep them to myself. I think this is exactly the sort of thing that impedes discussion and causes other people to decide, “You know what? I’m not going to ask MY question.” Just because it’s the government’s purpose to provide services certainly doesn’t mean it’s going to, or if it does, it will do it well. On your answer, thank you for the stats. (Thank you, by the way, **Starving Artist**. That was rather…unexpected.) But see here, I have a few things I want to say. My grandpapa is from Pakistan, when it wasn’t Pakistan yet. He is from the Lahore area and he and his wife and three small children had to flee into India, as many Muslims had to flee back to India. There is very little difference between the border people - I understand Urdu, and they understand Hindi. As others have said, we wear the same clothes. We are more similar than North Indians are to South Indians. ---
**Author:** ![StuffLikeThatThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@StuffLikeThatThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StuffLikeThatThere)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/54 "2009-01-06T15:21:46Z")
Perhaps this is a bit silly, but I’ve been curious about it for some years. Years ago, I worked with a Pakistani man who claimed that when you apply for a telephone line in Pakistan, your grandchild gets the approval. Is that true? It seems outlandish, but my experience of life is mostly rural and suburban Midwestern life, so I don’t have any frame of reference. (Also, he told me that he had four phone lines in his house growing up. His father owned, I think, oil tankers and had more money than Oprah.) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/55 "2009-01-06T16:02:34Z")
You can have any number of phonelines in Pakistan (I had three growing up).Officially it takes 6 weeks for the landline to be installed, (meaning from application to when you phone is working) though it is usually faster, generally there was a state monoply on telecommunications until 8 years ago. Multiple phones were not unknown.You can get mobile services in 10 minutes. And there are many different mobile companys so consumers have pretty good choices. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/56 "2009-01-06T16:09:08Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I will see if I can find the National Geographic article. It was a very good article, and I did come away with the impression that there was a dearth of public services in Pakistan. > > Quite frankly, if questions are now going to be considered “stupid”, I’d rather just keep them to myself. I think this is exactly the sort of thing that impedes discussion and causes other people to decide, “You know what? I’m not going to ask MY question.” Just because it’s the government’s purpose to provide services certainly doesn’t mean it’s going to, or if it does, it will do it well. > > On your answer, thank you for the stats. > > (Thank you, by the way, **Starving Artist**. That was rather…unexpected.) > > But see here, I have a few things I want to say. > > My grandpapa is from Pakistan, when it wasn’t Pakistan yet. He is from the Lahore area and he and his wife and three small children had to flee into India, as many Muslims had to flee back to India. There is very little difference between the border people - I understand Urdu, and they understand Hindi. As others have said, we wear the same clothes. We are more similar than North Indians are to South Indians. With respect, you can’t understand Urdu. I can’t follow Hindi newscasts all the time. Urdu has a huge amount of Persian words, Hindi "Sansikrit words. Pakistanis are different from Indians, fundamentally so. Its not just religion, its culture, ethnicity, language and a million other things. Pakistanis have more in common with Iran and Afghanistan than we ever did with India. This is not meant to be insulting to you, just a statement of fact. I hope there is peace, I hope we can be good neighbours, hell I hope there are visa less borders, but Pakistan is an independant country with its own culture and norms, and until India accepts that, it will be unlikely that the above can come true. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/57 "2009-01-06T17:16:04Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > With respect, you can’t understand Urdu. Presumptious much? How on earth would you know whether or not she can understand Urdu? Just FYI, the qualifier “with respect” doesn’t really convey respect when you are basically calling someone a liar. She said what her personal experience is. Though you might disagree with her opinions, you are not in a position to tell her she is wrong about her own life or experiences. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/58 "2009-01-06T17:43:07Z")
You have to be S Asian to understand the context. She said that she can understand Urdu by virtue of understanding Hindi. While it is true that Hindi and Urdu speakers can converse with each other, the languages are very different, Urdu is based upon Persian, while Hindi is based on Sansikrit, my Indian friends can’t follow Urdu broadcasts, I am at a loss when following or trying to follow Hindi broadcasts. To take an example; Prime Minister; Urdu; _Vazir-e-Azam_ Hindi _Pardan Mantri_. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/59 "2009-01-06T17:56:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You have to be S Asian to understand the context. She said that she can understand Urdu by virtue of understanding Hindi. While it is true that Hindi and Urdu speakers can converse with each other, the languages are very different, Urdu is based upon Persian, while Hindi is based on Sansikrit, my Indian friends can’t follow Urdu broadcasts, I am at a loss when following or trying to follow Hindi broadcasts. To take an example; Prime Minister; Urdu; _Vazir-e-Azam_ Hindi _Pardan Mantri_. She did NOT say she could only understand Urdu by virtue of understanding Hindi. Even if that was her meaning, an ability to converse effectively in another language is itself proof that one “understands” that language. It may be YOUR opinion that only true fluency constitutes “understanding” a language, but why on earth should your opinion as to what “understanding” mean outweigh hers, or mine, or anyone else’s? And there’s nothing so difficult about the context that it requires one to be an East Asian to get it. You are judging her assertions based on your own experiences, and you have no right to do so. For all you know she understands Urdu, Hindi, Hungarian, Swahili, and Klingon besides. On what basis do you inform her that she doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972/60 "2009-01-06T19:14:07Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Quite frankly, if questions are now going to be considered “stupid”, I’d rather just keep them to myself. I think this is exactly the sort of thing that impedes discussion and causes other people to decide, “You know what? I’m not going to ask MY question.” Exactly! It’s presumptious at the least, and stupid (;)) at the worst, to take the position that a question is stupid based on whether or not the person _should have_ known the answer. People don’t know things, and in my opinion it speaks much more highly of you for asking than it does of him for having presumed you should already know. Then there’s the matter of that type of comment inhibiting further questions…on this subject or others in the main. People reading **AK84’s** needlessly snide comment may very well decide they don’t want to risk that type of derision by asking something themselves (whether by **AK84** or someone else), and thus choose to remain silent and uninformed. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Just because it’s the government’s purpose to provide services certainly doesn’t mean it’s going to, or if it does, it will do it well. Again, exactly. This is why it seemed to me your question was perfectly reasonable. Further, there have existed during my lifetime a number of countries whose governments were primarily concerned with enriching themselves even if it meant famine, sickness and death to much of their populace. > [@Anaamika](#): > > (Thank you, by the way, **Starving Artist**. That was rather…unexpected.) You’re welcome. 🙂 **AK84’s** comment cheesed me off on a couple of levels. One, you didn’t deserve it; and two, it could inhibit others from asking questions for fear of getting the same kind of response from either **AK84** or a similar poster. I debated with myself whether to say anything for fear that perhaps you would have preferred that I hadn’t. I’m glad to see that it was okay with you that I did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-guy/431972.md?page=4)