# Ask the Pakistani Lawyer **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 13, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339 "2010-03-13T11:06:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/21 "2010-03-18T18:08:31Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Do you have a tribal identity (ie Pashtun, Balochi etc.)? > > Have you ever heard of Greg Mortensen and the work his Central Asian Institute is doing in some of the most remote areas of Pakistan? What do you think? Do you think education is a way to temper the extremist element? What do you think of those Wahhabi schools set up by the Saudis? Pahstun. Burki Tribe. S Waziristan. BTW, Pashtun, Baloch are ethnic groups and within those ethnic groups you have tribes, like Burki, Wazir, Afridi, Masud etc for Pashtuns, Bugti, Zardari, Mengal, Marri etc for Baloch. Most Pakistanis tribal allegience is very nominal, sort of like how you have decendents of Italians, Irish and Poles in the US, often identiiable due to name, but not an issue in day to day life. Greg Mortensen’s book was a waste of money, and incidentally while charity work and educational philantrophy is a great idea, his work is in Gilgit-Baltistan, which is far far far away from the militant affected areas. And is majority Shia to boot. Wahabi Schools are welcome, as are schools from all other religious sects, and schools adhereing to all persuasions, its a free country and people have the right to hold views that they deem fit. Not really law related question incidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/22 "2010-03-18T20:52:41Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not really law related question incidentally. No, but they were Pakistani-related questions. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/23 "2010-03-18T21:58:51Z")
I deal with people’s vital documents all the time in my line of work (I’m an immigration paralegal), and once in a while I come across a Pakistani marriage certificate. The options to select regarding the bride are Virgin, Divorced, or Widowed (as if there were no other possibilities). While this is mildly amusing (or aggravating, depending on my mood that day) to my Western feminist self, it makes me wonder - is there any substantive legal purpose for it? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/24 "2010-03-19T04:22:30Z")
Virgin=Never been married. If it meant= never been sexually active, half of Pakistan would be unable to get married. The form (Form 8 IIRC) was issued by the Family Law Rules 1964, and is itself a copy of a form which was first issued on 1830’s. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/25 "2010-03-19T05:57:53Z")
Regarding homosexuality - what kind of legal rights do Gay people have? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/26 "2010-03-19T08:21:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Virgin=Never been married. > > If it meant= never been sexually active, half of Pakistan would be unable to get married. > > The form (Form 8 IIRC) was issued by the Family Law Rules 1964, and is itself a copy of a form which was first issued on 1830’s. Well, if Virgin = Never been married, why isn’t the same line item there in relation to the groom? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/27 "2010-03-19T11:05:06Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Well, if Virgin = Never been married, why isn’t the same line item there in relation to the groom? There is a line about then groom, if he has been married before. A widow may draw upon benefits from the Federal Government Treasury, and collect a pension, a divorcee will be receving mainatainance from her ex. Both will (in case of pension, may) cease upon remarriage. That is why information is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/28 "2010-03-19T11:17:20Z")
What happens if a non-virgin who has never been married before completes the form honestly? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/29 "2010-03-19T11:45:28Z")
A highly overworked and under paid official is the Registrar of marriages. S/he will most likely mark her down as never married and be done with it, since its a simple matter now, S/He would be a lot more interested where the question is answered “widowed or remarried”, since then additional documentation has to be attached, death certificate, notice of dfissolution of marriage, any settlememt agreement, pension, benefits etc. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/30 "2010-03-19T12:12:11Z")
If there is an order for maintenance, is enforcement of it left to the recipient, or is there a government agency that can handle it on the recipient’s behalf? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/31 "2010-03-19T12:13:17Z")
I know this might seem like a stupid question, but are there instances in which males receive maintenance from females? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/32 "2010-03-19T12:14:25Z")
When a couple separates, how is who gets the kids decided (what tests are used to determine custody and access)? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/33 "2010-03-19T12:16:56Z")
Do you look outside your country for sources of law, and if so, which ones? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/34 "2010-03-19T12:41:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > If there is an order for maintenance, is enforcement of it left to the recipient, or is there a government agency that can handle it on the recipient’s behalf? The maintainance is paid into the Court of the Senior Civil Judge of the District where the recepient is ordinarily resident and the money is withrawn from there. It can be monthly, quaterly or yearly, depending on the order. [QUOTE=Muffin] I know this might seem like a stupid question, but are there instances in which males receive maintenance from females? [/QUOTE] If it is in the interests of justice to so order or the parties have agreed thus. Been a few instance. [Personal Opinion] The whole divorce court system is designed to fleece and abuse men so not bloody likely to happen often [/Personal Opinion] [QUOTE=Muffin] When a couple separates, how is who gets the kids decided (what tests are used to determine custody and access)? [/QUOTE] The court decides on the basis of what is in the childs best interests. They also usually tell the parents to decide on arrangements and are usually happy to thus order, but the primary concern is the child’s best interests. > [@](#): > > Do you look outside your country for sources of law, and if so, which ones? Pakistani law is the Law of British India, thus Indian Judgements are considered. English law is also highly influential and almost all offices have books on both and cases from these jurisdictions are cited often. Outside, well some places have American law at hand, mostly constitutional law. My own office has a set of Corpus Juris Secendum. However American law is usually cosulted when you have found nothing and its a case of “lets see what the Yanks have to say on this”. In addition the Law Commission (the body which reccomends new legislation) has access to a wide variety of foreign laws and on occasion reccomends legislation bases upon a foreign statute, the new Consumer protection act for instance, drew heavily on the English and Australian Acts) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/35 "2010-03-19T18:43:41Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Regarding homosexuality - what kind of legal rights do Gay people have? All persons are equal under the law. There is an old British Raj era statute which forbids “unnatural Acts” but it is rarely enforced. Most Pakistanis opinions on homosexuality can be described as “tolerated, not accepted”. If you are a honosexual, and discreet, you are ok, even if everyone knows your orientation. Pakistan’s present ambassador to the UN has often been “outed” in the media. Whether he is or not, nobody says, [but I have my suspicions](http://www.pakun.org/ambassador/Hussain_Haroon.php). In addition quite a few media people are openly gay as well. [Ali Saleem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Saleem) for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/36 "2010-03-19T19:14:36Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Pakistani law is the Law of British India, thus Indian Judgements are considered. Heh. Interesting - I’d not expected that, but it makes sense, of course. Are there many conferences where Pakistani and Indian lawyers regularly attend and discuss legal problems they’ve got in common? Do Pakistani lawyers tend to have more moderate views of Pakistan-Indian relations than the general population? Do you know if Indian jurists often cite Pakistani cases? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/37 "2010-03-19T20:05:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > There is a line about then groom, if he has been married before. > > A widow may draw upon benefits from the Federal Government Treasury, and collect a pension, a divorcee will be receving mainatainance from her ex. Both will (in case of pension, may) cease upon remarriage. > > That is why information is needed. Well, I don’t see them very often, and it’s been a while since I saw the last one, and it was probably at least a decade or two old, so I won’t rely on my memory on this one. However, this thread just became extraordinarily timely. My firm has a client who was born in Pakistan, but immigrated to Canada as a child and became a Canadian citizen in his late teens (he is now in his 30s). A U.S. green card-related issue that has just arisen for him (of which I won’t go into details for confidentiality reasons) hinges on whether he was ever a dual citizen of Pakistan since he arrived in the U.S. Well, initial research indicated that he wasn’t; the [source we usually use](http://www.opm.gov/EXTRA/INVESTIGATE/is-01.PDF)for this kind of info indicated that Pakistan doesn’t allow dual citizenship, and that one involuntarily loses Pakistani citizenship on acquiring any foreign citizenship (as was the case with our client). I tried double-checking with the Pakistani sites, but the links weren’t working. But now the links are working again, and it seems that [Pakistan now allows dual citizenship with certain countries,](http://www.pak.gov.pk/citizens.aspx) including Canada. So how would this work in the case of someone who had previously lost Pakistani citizenship by acquiring foreign citizenship? Would he automatically reacquire Pakistani citizenship, or would he have to apply for it? If the former, would restoration of Pakistani citizenship be retroactive? We will obviously be in touch with the Pakistani Consulate, but I have no idea what kind of luck we will have with them, so any guidance or citations you could provide would be most welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/38 "2010-03-19T22:22:47Z")
Is the law applied consistently throughout the nation? ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/39 "2010-03-20T00:32:52Z")
Hi and Congrats on your law degree! I recently saw a documentary on Pakistan. It was by EWTN or The Catholic Network. There is a region of Pakistan that the Christians live but they are a small minority. The biggest problem is getting the Pakistan government to build schools for the children. Some children attend school outside in all kinds of weather. Why does the government allow this? The money is there and the United States pays Pakistan to build schools but they don’t? This leads to children to not get an education and join militia groups. Now the Catholic run schools show a much brighter picture. They are clean and the faith of the children is not interfered with. The Catholic children go to mass and the others can practice their own beliefs. I was amazed at how poor these families were. One little boy quit school to go pump gas for a penny an hour. His Mother said she can’t make it without him working. He was like 8 years old. Ok, So my question is where does the US funding go if not to build schools? As you know yourself, education is everything. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339/40 "2010-03-20T03:36:17Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Well, I don’t see them very often, and it’s been a while since I saw the last one, and it was probably at least a decade or two old, so I won’t rely on my memory on this one. > > However, this thread just became extraordinarily timely. > > My firm has a client who was born in Pakistan, but immigrated to Canada as a child and became a Canadian citizen in his late teens (he is now in his 30s). A U.S. green card-related issue that has just arisen for him (of which I won’t go into details for confidentiality reasons) hinges on whether he was ever a dual citizen of Pakistan since he arrived in the U.S. > > Well, initial research indicated that he wasn’t; the [source we usually use](http://www.opm.gov/EXTRA/INVESTIGATE/is-01.PDF)for this kind of info indicated that Pakistan doesn’t allow dual citizenship, and that one involuntarily loses Pakistani citizenship on acquiring any foreign citizenship (as was the case with our client). I tried double-checking with the Pakistani sites, but the links weren’t working. > > But now the links are working again, and it seems that [Pakistan now allows dual citizenship with certain countries,](http://www.pak.gov.pk/citizens.aspx) including Canada. > > So how would this work in the case of someone who had previously lost Pakistani citizenship by acquiring foreign citizenship? Would he automatically reacquire Pakistani citizenship, or would he have to apply for it? If the former, would restoration of Pakistani citizenship be retroactive? > > We will obviously be in touch with the Pakistani Consulate, but I have no idea what kind of luck we will have with them, so any guidance or citations you could provide would be most welcome. If you are born in Pakistan, you are a Pakistani citizen. End of discussion. There are certain countries with whom you are permitted duel nationality but even with countries where dual nationality is not permitted the loss of citizenship applies only if the person was over 21 at the time of taking the new citizenship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-pakistani-lawyer/532339.md?page=3)