# Ask The Patriotic American Intellectual Conservative Christian **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 9, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234 "2010-02-09T03:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/181 "2010-02-12T03:16:51Z")
Lust is involuntary. How can something that is not a choice be a sin? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/182 "2010-02-12T03:26:36Z")
I feel I know and like you better because of this thread but we would disagree on many things. One worrld government? Not a very common wish among conservatives is it? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/183 "2010-02-12T03:29:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Lust is involuntary. How can something that is not a choice be a sin? You could also argue that most people at least sometimes have a desire to steal or kill people. Does it make it right? NO. Plus we have evolved so much I find it laughable that humanists who are proud of humanity love uncontrolled display of our lower instincts. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/184 "2010-02-12T03:31:34Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > I feel I know and like you better because of this thread but we would disagree on many things. > > One worrld government? Not a very common wish among conservatives is it? I know but unlike the starry eyed liberals who love the UN I think a world government will not be able to evolve from a UN and be dominated by the Free World Powers. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/185 "2010-02-12T04:31:53Z")
[QUOTE=Curtis LeMay] Commit the originial sin. [/QUOTE] What is the original sin? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/186 "2010-02-12T04:53:19Z")
Wladorf salad. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/187 "2010-02-12T05:03:42Z")
:smack: D’Oh! _Waldorf!_ ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/188 "2010-02-12T05:13:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > You could also argue that most people at least sometimes have a desire to steal or kill people. Does it make it right? NO. Plus we have evolved so much I find it laughable that humanists who are proud of humanity love uncontrolled display of our lower instincts. The thoughts? No, those aren’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/189 "2010-02-12T05:43:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I know but unlike the starry eyed liberals who love the UN I think a world government will not be able to evolve from a UN and be dominated by the Free World Powers. The UN is nothing like a “OWG”. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > You could also say that beating up people improves depression. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/190 "2010-02-12T05:56:32Z")
Ooops, wrong thread! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/191 "2010-02-12T06:04:35Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > You could also argue that most people at least sometimes have a desire to steal or kill people. Does it make it right? It can’t be either right or wrong if it’s involuntary. Sin has to be _chosen_, does it not? How can something be sinful if you don’t have any ability not to do it? “Lust” is caused by hormones. It’s caused by biology, not by will. How can God punish people for something their bodies are programmed to do without their will? Does free will mean nothing to God? All guys masturbate, by the way. If there was a Jesus, he spanked it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/192 "2010-02-12T06:08:05Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I know but unlike the starry eyed liberals who love the UN I think a world government will not be able to evolve from a UN and be dominated by the Free World Powers. Where do you get this shit? What liberals want a one world government? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/193 "2010-02-12T06:19:34Z")
**In response to:** Do you feel that intellectualism can only go so far for a Christian. At some point rationality has to be abandoned in favor of faith. And the faith required of a Christian necessarily falls far short of the intellectualism required for someone who keeps more open mind, such as a scientist (be them agnostic, or (yes) even an atheist). Would you agree? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There are many scientists who are religious: Galileo (Catholic), Newton (Unitarian), and Francis Collins. That’s kind of a cop-out, no? Despite the fact that many great scientists throughout time were religious, I’m talking about _faith_ here. No one can know for certain if those scientists truly had faith. In fact, it may have been a search for faith through their scientific efforts (attempts that proved fruitful for science, but no so much for the existence of God). I know Newton was devout, but he never seemed to find what he was looking for (e.g. Bible Codes). It’s difficult to compare scientists that lived 400 years ago (ignoring Collins), with those of today. So much more has been revealed regarding the cosmos, and it makes a lot of Genesis (and other parts of the Bible) not only appear dubious, but is flat out contradictory. Why would God try to deceive us like that… making it look like he doesn’t exist? How do you reconcile the intellectual/rational with your _faith?_ Why lock your faith down to a particular religion? Do you ever doubt there is a God? ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/194 "2010-02-12T07:52:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Which is why I support temperance. You are trying to dodge the point, which is that you were speaking from a position of ignorance regarding drugs (and almost everything else). As soon as you recognize that, you can abandon your preconceptions and begin acquiring real knowledge. > [@](#): > > You could also say that beating up people improves depression. You could, IF you could produce any evidence to support your claim, which you can’t. Again, ignorance of facts and a refusal to modify one’s views are the real problems. Not masturbation, that’s actually good for you. The little bubble you live in, in which you are an intellectual and know so much, is an illusion that will only harm you if you don’t pop it and step into the real world. Guaranteed. > [@](#): > > Not according to the Lord and I’d rather follow Him than you. I am not comparing my recommendations to those of your hypothetical god - even though mine are far more informed, I recognize how futile that would be. I am talking about evidence available to us puny mortals. All the evidence points to masturbation being good for you and allowing you to become a better lover. I know you are only 13, but you want to be a good lover someday… don’t you? And you agree that being healthy is good? All the evidence points to sex being good for you too, by the way. Hence my question about what exactly you think is so wrong with lust. It’s a perfectly natural and perfectly healthy human response. In short, give us more reasoning and fewer useless platitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/195 "2010-02-12T10:16:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Where do you get this shit? What liberals want a one world government? If anything, liberals are more likely to be multiculturalists wanting other cultures to maintain their own autonomy (in a peaceful, free, democratic and mutually respectful way, of course 😉 ). It’s the conservatives who want a One Way Über Alles world, just as long as it’s _their_ way. Your posts above are my cite. Still not sure why you ( **Curtis** ) think Clinton ought to have done something that his military advisors, his political advisors, pretty much everyone else in Washington at the time, the media and his own good sense\* would have told him was a really bad idea, when you give Bush a clear pass for not doing the same thing at a point when it clearly _would_ have made sense. You’re so determined to blame Clinton than you’re shorting our your reason circuits on this one. \*which he had, when his todger wasn’t involved. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/196 "2010-02-12T11:33:50Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Because our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and we should not give into our baser, primate instincts. Plus practically speaking both drunkenss and lust are economically and socially unproductive. Maybe yours. My body is a temple of drunkenness and lust, and I’m extremely economically and socially productive. Industries would fall and humanity would cease to exist without drunkenness and lust. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/197 "2010-02-12T12:43:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Curtis LeMay was not insane as some think-he was not a racist despite serving on a racist presidential ticket. I agree that LeMay was likely not a bigot himself, but nonetheless he did actively participate in the campaign of a known bigot. If your definition of sanity is thinking that the peaceful resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis was the biggest defeat in American history, and that the US should have launched a full scale nuclear attack on the USSR, then yes he was sane. For the rest of us, he was as mad as a hatter. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/198 "2010-02-12T17:00:05Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For instance from the little bit I’ve heard of Mr. Chomsky that seems to be so. This is the foundation for your statement (as an “intellectual”) that NC is smarter than you? Well… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/199 "2010-02-12T17:24:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It can’t be either right or wrong if it’s involuntary. Sin has to be _chosen_, does it not? How can something be sinful if you don’t have any ability not to do it? “Lust” is caused by hormones. It’s caused by biology, not by will. How can God punish people for something their bodies are programmed to do without their will? > > Does free will mean nothing to God? > > All guys masturbate, by the way. If there was a Jesus, he spanked it. All humans naturally want to lie to hide embarassing secrets or attack people they hate. That is why humans are not perfect and thus sinners. Lust cannot be compeltely overcome but it can be controlled. > [@cmyk](#): > > **In response to:** Do you feel that intellectualism can only go so far for a Christian. At some point rationality has to be abandoned in favor of faith. And the faith required of a Christian necessarily falls far short of the intellectualism required for someone who keeps more open mind, such as a scientist (be them agnostic, or (yes) even an atheist). Would you agree? > > That’s kind of a cop-out, no? Despite the fact that many great scientists throughout time were religious, I’m talking about _faith_ here. No one can know for certain if those scientists truly had faith. In fact, it may have been a search for faith through their scientific efforts (attempts that proved fruitful for science, but no so much for the existence of God). I know Newton was devout, but he never seemed to find what he was looking for (e.g. Bible Codes). It’s difficult to compare scientists that lived 400 years ago (ignoring Collins), with those of today. So much more has been revealed regarding the cosmos, and it makes a lot of Genesis (and other parts of the Bible) not only appear dubious, but is flat out contradictory. Why would God try to deceive us like that… making it look like he doesn’t exist? > > How do you reconcile the intellectual/rational with your _faith?_ I accept scientific theories such as evolution or the Big Bang-but also acknowledge God is behind it. > [@](#): > > Why lock your faith down to a particular religion? If God exists than certainly He must have revealed His truths-ie in one of the religions. > [@](#): > > Do you ever doubt there is a God? I struggle with my faith like many other Christians do. > [@Abe](#): > > You are trying to dodge the point, which is that you were speaking from a position of ignorance regarding drugs (and almost everything else). As soon as you recognize that, you can abandon your preconceptions and begin acquiring real knowledge. > > You could, IF you could produce any evidence to support your claim, which you can’t. Again, ignorance of facts and a refusal to modify one’s views are the real problems. > > Not masturbation, that’s actually good for you. The little bubble you live in, in which you are an intellectual and know so much, is an illusion that will only harm you if you don’t pop it and step into the real world. Guaranteed. > > I am not comparing my recommendations to those of your hypothetical god - even though mine are far more informed, I recognize how futile that would be. I am talking about evidence available to us puny mortals. All the evidence points to masturbation being good for you and allowing you to become a better lover. I know you are only 13, but you want to be a good lover someday… don’t you? And you agree that being healthy is good? > > All the evidence points to sex being good for you too, by the way. Hence my question about what exactly you think is so wrong with lust. It’s a perfectly natural and perfectly healthy human response. > > In short, give us more reasoning and fewer useless platitudes. God said it is a sin (ie “abusers of themselves”) and thus I follow Him. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I agree that LeMay was likely not a bigot himself, but nonetheless he did actively participate in the campaign of a known bigot. > > If your definition of sanity is thinking that the peaceful resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis was the biggest defeat in American history, and that the US should have launched a full scale nuclear attack on the USSR, then yes he was sane. For the rest of us, he was as mad as a hatter. He also built up the Strategic Air Command as a general and helped build up America’s massive air power. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/200 "2010-02-12T17:30:40Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > All humans naturally want to lie to hide embarassing secrets or attack people they hate. That is why humans are not perfect and thus sinners. Lust cannot be compeltely overcome but it can be controlled. How can it be controlled? It’s a biological impulse, not a conscious act. One can choose not to be a glutton, but one cannot choose not to be hungry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234.md?page=11)