# Ask The Patriotic American Intellectual Conservative Christian **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 9, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234 "2010-02-09T03:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/81 "2010-02-10T02:04:27Z")
It’s a quote from the movie, _Risky Business_. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/82 "2010-02-10T02:08:45Z")
I’ve a question. I’m assuming that, while you love your country (as you define patriotism), there are probably some things about it or its people that you don’t like so much. Why do you consider yourself patriotic, in that you express a love for the country as a whole, rather than expressing a love or liking for solely those aspects of the country that you like? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/83 "2010-02-10T02:10:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > But what does Joel have to do with anything? It’s a quote from the movie **Dio** posted. In that movie, a high school kid named Joel finds himself way over his head in a netherworld of pimps and prostitutes and con men. He does indeed need to learn. Your circumstances are not the same (and I didn’t take into consideration your Asberger’s when I posted the Joel comment), but even though you feel your most of the world’s intellectual superior, I am here to tell you that you are not. You are too young, too inexperienced to be anyone’s superior. IIWY, I’d hold off on making blanket statements about God, the world, America, sin and the brain power of others until you have indeed lived and learned a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/84 "2010-02-10T02:11:56Z")
> [@](#): > > There are semi interdependent (ie naturally an American is Patriotic). That touchs on one of the points I was going to ask about. What did you mean when you defined yourself as an American? I assume you didn’t mean it in the most common sense - a person who happened to be born in America or is an American citizen. Aldrich Ames is an American by that definition. But the fact that you declared yourself to be an American (and your response to my question) seems to indicate you see it as an assumed status - something you consciously chose to be and not just a happenstance of birth. So what do you feel defines you as an American? Or conversely, what do you feel would make a person a non-American even if he was technically an American citizen? On a related note, do you feel it’s possible for somebody to be a liberal or an atheist and still be a patriotic American? Do you feel American patriotism is part of American exceptionalism? Or do you think a Canadian or a Russian or an Iranian can feel the same patriotism towards his country as you do towards America and that their patriotism is equivalent to yours? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/85 "2010-02-10T02:16:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s a quote from the movie, _Risky Business_. Aw, give him a break! It’s a rated R film (and an “evil” one at that). ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/86 "2010-02-10T02:19:38Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’ve a question. I’m assuming that, while you love your country (as you define patriotism), there are probably some things about it or its people that you don’t like so much. Why do you consider yourself patriotic, in that you express a love for the country as a whole, rather than expressing a love or liking for solely those aspects of the country that you like? Because I believe that despite all of America’s faults it is the best nation in the world and the best hope for the improvement of mankind. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That touchs on one of the points I was going to ask about. What did you mean when you defined yourself as an American? I assume you didn’t mean it in the most common sense - a person who happened to be born in America or is an American citizen. Aldrich Ames is an American by that definition. But the fact that you declared yourself to be an American (and your response to my question) seems to indicate you see it as an assumed status - something you consciously chose to be and not just a happenstance of birth. So what do you feel defines you as an American? Or conversely, what do you feel would make a person a non-American even if he was technically an American citizen? I think it’s loving your nation (but still recognizing it’s faults) and doing your civic duty. > [@](#): > > On a related note, do you feel it’s possible for somebody to be a liberal or an atheist and still be a patriotic American? Yes. > [@](#): > > Do you feel American patriotism is part of American exceptionalism? Or do you think a Canadian or a Russian or an Iranian can feel the same patriotism towards his country as you do towards America and that their patriotism is equivalent to yours? No to the former, yes to the latter. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/87 "2010-02-10T02:21:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > If the OP is indeed 13, he isn’t even an American yet, much less the rest of it. He’s an American child. He isn’t a patriot, because he can’t serve in the armed forces yet, he isn’t an intellectual because he hasn’t finished growing a brain yet, he isn’t conservative because he isn’t old enough to vote yet; I’ll give him Christian. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/88 "2010-02-10T02:30:25Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Because I believe that despite all of America’s faults it is the best nation in the world and the best hope for the improvement of mankind. But instead of accepting those faults, and by being patriotic tacitly support and accept them, why not simply declare yourself as being in support of those things about America that you do think are good? It’s perfectly possible to believe that America is the best nation in the world, the best hope and so on, that it has faults, and so choose to differentiate between those things you like and those faults. I have another question, arising from your answer here. How would you define the kind of improvement of mankind that you believe America is the best hope to provide? Could you give some examples of the kind of betterment you consider America most likely to deliver upon? ---
**Author:** ![Rala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@Rala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rala)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/89 "2010-02-10T02:34:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I believe it to be a local flood affecting only Mesopotamia. In that case, what’s the significance of Genesis 8:21 and 9:11? Did God promise to never send a _local_ flood again? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/90 "2010-02-10T02:46:18Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It is evil to burn with lust. I disagree (and think the statement is a religious trope that borders on the nonsensical), but assuming for a moment that it is true, I can’t think of a stronger argument _in favor_ of masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/91 "2010-02-10T03:07:43Z")
> [@Rala](#): > > In that case, what’s the significance of Genesis 8:21 and 9:11? Did God promise to never send a _local_ flood again? It may have been the melting of the icebergs at the end of the Ice Ages. I am not a geologist nor a theologian. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I disagree (and think the statement is a religious trope that borders on the nonsensical), but assuming for a moment that it is true, I can’t think of a stronger argument _in favor_ of masturbation. Um no. Masturbating is burning with lust. That’s like saying satisfying your desire to kill by murdering people. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/92 "2010-02-10T03:20:47Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Um no. Masturbating is burning with lust. That’s like saying satisfying your desire to kill by murdering people. Masturbating _relieves_ lust (and all guys do it by the way, without exception. Ask your dad…or your pastor). If you don’t masturbate, you continue to burn with lust. Lust is not voluntary, it’s biological. It’s caused by hormones. It’s not a choice or an act of will. Saying lust is a sin is like saying being hungry is a sin. The Bible does not forbid masturbation, by the way. Just FYI. Oh, and you didn’t really answer the Problem of Evil question. You said Satan created evil, but that’s no answer at all since God created Satan, knowing full well that Satan would be evil (the New Testament version, anyway), and Satan can only continue to exist and do evil by God’s will. Therefore every act of Satan can only occur by God’s will. God can make Satan disappear any time he wants, but doesn’t. That puts him squarely on the hook for all Satan’s actions. You can’t solve the POE by trying to pass the buck to Satan. I would have thought an “intellectual” would know that already. The smartest theologians in history have been trying to solve the Problem of Evil for hundreds of years without success. Did you really think that you would be able to do it with something as naive and amateurish as blaming it on Satan? I wouldn’t expect an intellectual to be able to solve the POE (none of them ever have before), but I would expect them to know it’s not as simple as pinning the tail on Satan. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/93 "2010-02-10T03:28:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I wouldn’t expect an intellectual to be able to solve the POE (none of them ever have before), but I would expect them to know it’s not as simple as pinning the tail on Satan. or so Satan would have you believe! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/94 "2010-02-10T03:35:20Z")
> [@Curtis Lemay](#): > > I do not fear the United States becoming a socialist nation I do however fear it becoming a social democratic nation like most of Europe. What do you know of European countries? Have you ever experienced what you call a ‘social democratic nation’? Why do you fear it? I’ve been to several European countries; and in my personal experiences interacting with the people in those countries, I don’t understand what it is you fear. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/95 "2010-02-10T03:47:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What do you know of European countries? > > Have you ever experienced what you call a ‘social democratic nation’? > > Why do you fear it? I’ve been to several European countries; and in my personal experiences interacting with the people in those countries, I don’t understand what it is you fear. Economic sloth, falling to competition against China, India, and Brazil, massive tax burdens. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/96 "2010-02-10T03:49:57Z")
Hi Curtis, Thanks for starting this thread. So far, I think your responses reveal that you are a more nuanced and complex individual than some would have guessed. **Q:** What appeal does the SDMB community have for you? Given that the board leans left and you’ve been the recipient of some criticism in the past, what keeps you coming back? **Q:** Has any of the debate — whether or not you’ve participated — cause you to reconsider a previously held notion? If so, what? **Q:** As an aspiring public servant, what particular areas would you like to affect? In what ways? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/97 "2010-02-10T04:01:11Z")
Wrong! Lemmy \*is \*God. If no one is going to play with me, I’ll just play with myself, goddamnit. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/98 "2010-02-10T04:11:14Z")
**SINNER!!!** Real question: What are your views on alcohol, cigarettes, and marijuana? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/99 "2010-02-10T04:19:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Economic sloth, falling to competition against China, India, and Brazil, massive tax burdens. How are they failing to compete against those countries? Do you mean that they don’t make goods cheap enough to be sold at Wal-Mart? Or do you mean something else? What about quality? I have watches made in Switzerland, and some made in Japan. I prefer the quality of the Swiss ones. Define ‘economic sloth’. Denmark has unbelievably high tax rates. (No, really. I couldn’t believe them!) But it is also reported to have the happiest citizens. Do you see anything wrong with paying for the services you receive? I know that you are being bombarded by questions (and snark), but I’d like to take the time to define your objections. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234/100 "2010-02-10T04:31:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Economic sloth, falling to competition against China, India, and Brazil, massive tax burdens. None of those are true of Canada, which is one of those social democracies you’re afeared of. What’s scary about Canada? Why do you suppose it is that most citizens of these social democracies are opposed to moving away from social democratic policies towards US-style conservatism? Are we willfully opposed to our own best interest, or just ignorant? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-patriotic-american-intellectual-conservative-christian/528234.md?page=6)