Is it true that you only get issued one spoon, and you have to hold onto it or else be forced to either use your hands or someone else’s?
What kind of martial and/or combatives training do you receive, and is it adequate? Do you seek out outside training? Do some or most other guards do so?
I spent a few nights in jail once. Released on my own recognizance (I think that’s the term?), never screwed up that badly again.
But I’ve seen the guards from the wrong side of the bars, and that made me wonder something that I’ve never had the opportunity to ask before.
Do they rotate guards from different areas to another? And if so, how long do they let you guys stew in the ‘bad’ areas before moving you somewhere else?
The reason I ask has to do with what I observed while I was there. The guards really seemed twitchy – not nervous-twitchy, but stressed-twitchy – and would yell at prisoners for stupid things. Like me, for example: I was looking out the cell window into the common area and got yelled at for it. I’m not exaggerating; I literally had done nothing except put my face to the glass and peer out.
I would expect this in an area that had, say, serial killers, rapists, and other violent offenders. I was in the short-term area, where you’re held before having your day in court. My cellmate was there to serve his DUI sentence. The guy next door had been dodging paying his court fines for a couple years and they busted him at a traffic stop. Those sorts of folks.
Anyway, it made me think that maybe the reason for the guards being so twitchy was due to having served in high-stress areas for too long. If I’m wrong… do they train you to react that way? If so, why?
[ul]
[li]What is the worst thing a prisoner has ever done to you?[/li][li]What is the worst thing you have ever witnessed happening to another guard? To another prisoner?[/li][li]How often do escape attempts occur? I know lots of prisoners will plan escapes, but I mean, how many have actually started to execute such a plan of action?[/li][li]How many prisoners have actually escaped? How did they get past all the security measures in place?[/li][li]Would you ever work in a maximum security or Supermax prison? How do the levels of security differ amongst minimum, medium, maximum and Supermax?[/li][/ul]
I could take some of this from the UK prisons perspective.
There are marked differances between US and UK prisons.
In the UK we call them Prison Officers, a term that was instituted in 1928.
There isn’t martial training in the Kung Fu variety however it isn’t unusual for Officers to take up such types of training, and its actually for the self discipline rather than the self defnece role you might expect.
Officers do work a good deal on ‘Control and Restraint’.
Many techniques such as the use of pressure points and judo style manipulation of limbs are used.
The idea is to not only protect Prison staff, of which there are many differant types, they also are there to protect prisoners from each other and from themselves, and they are trained to restrain individuals with the least injury possible under any given circumstances.
The main emphasis is in following a set plan and procedure, Officers are given roles which they carry out as part of a team.
The teamwork is absolutely vital, and its why individual combat skills are not appropriate.
In the UK each Prison will have its general duty officers, but a number of them will have recived enanced training - meaning more hours and advanced techniques.
These will be the second line to be called on in an emergency, the first line staff are the ones who present when the outbreak begins.
There will be a much smaller number of highly trained staff who are available to respond to incidents in other prisons, they will be gathered from prisons all over the place and will form the third line team - these are the ones who will deal with big events, they will have access to a lot more equipment and covert facilities.
For example, there is a set drill for gaining entry to a barricaded cell and restraining a resisiting occupant, there will be those designated to use shields, and those designated to tackle each individual limb in a particular way.
The Officers can switch roles but before each operation each one is given one particular task.
The most important part of a planned operation, wether its retaking a unit that has been overwhelmed by prisoners or just a single person event is an assessment of what will be required before you begin - there is totally no point in starting something unless you can be 100% certain of carrying it through.
Gah, creepy! Thanks for taking the time to answer, this is an interesting thread.
Do you think the average person has a fairly accurate perception of what inmates are like? Is there anything that surprised you about them?
Given that Nemo is in a medium level prison this is quite a low staffing level compared to UK prisons.
The equivalent here in the UK would probably be one to two thirds more at any given time.
I’m not sure if other prison workers are counted in Nemo’s total, but in UK prisons there are many other workers, such as teachers, trade training, counsellors, probation/parole staff etc.
In UK prisons these probably account for around 50-75% of daytime staff.
US prisons from what I can see (and also from the few US prison contract prisons in the UK) seem generally to have very much lower staffing levels than we have and instead rely a lot more on cameras, electrically operated gates and collective prisoner routines instead of individual routines.
I can only assume that the use of physical security, such as lock, doors, walls and razor wire is more heavily relied upon in the US than in the UK where perhaps the main element of security is personnel.
Having more staff means you can deal with fewer prisoners at a time, it means you have more time to talk with them which is seen as extremely important because you can handle the day to day problems that prisoners run into, to run rehab courses, to carry out searches and all the things that humans can do and inanimate security fixtures cannot.
Having more staff also means more human frailties, from mistakes to poor staff right through to the corrupt staff who do things for gain.
What prison movie is closest to “real life”?
VCNJ~
I recollect reading an article in a US paper (NYT, probably), on practices in German prisons. The author apparently considered it noteworthy that prisoners were invariably addressed as Herr So-and-So. Isn’t that the case in the US? I.e. are prisoners not addressed as Mr. Lastname?
My best friend since we were little kids is a Sargent in the New York State Corrections department. Between him and a few other buddies I’ve talked a lot about their jobs. I took the civil service test and almost became an officer. They have good pay and incredable benifits but decided it wasn’t for me. The officers joke they are doing a 25 year term too, just 8 hours at a time. I’ll throw in my third person comments here from years of listening to their stories;
They don’t use first names in front of inmates and are wary of talking about personal stuff where it can be overheard. Some guys take off their Wedding rings at work.
In the New York State system all Superintendants start out as officers and have to work their way up.
Most of the time the officers have no idea what the inmates are in for.
It’s a union job. The different posts are bidded out as they become available to the person with the most seiniority. Some officers choose to stay in the same post for years on end, others move all the time. Same with what prison you work at. As you build up time you can transfer to where there is an opening. Some guys love working at a max and others hate it.
Generally the medium security inmates are looking at keeping their heads down and doing their time and getting out. Inmates at a max are either bad mofo’s that got into trouble at a medium or are doing life. They have a lot of time on their hands to plot and think up crazy shit.
All the officers I know have been banged up in a fight or trying to restrain an inmate. One buddy had his back broken in a brawl in a shower trying to restrain a large wet naked dude. Tough to tackle somebody like that.
The most insidious assult I heard of is where an inmate took two razor blades and imbedded them in the end of a melted toothbrush handle. The blades were parallel about a quarter inch apart. He slashed an officers face. With the parallel gashes the wound couldn’t be closed with stitches and left a horiffic scar.
This is the kind of story that made me change my mind about becoming a Corrections Officer.
Little Nemo,
I would like to work in the area of mental health in a prison. What sort of mental health care is provided to the inmates of your institution? I know that the first few nights in prison must be stressful. Is anything done to relieve that stress?
What is done for inmates that express suicidal thoughts?
Are some inmates watched closer for stress reactions?
Thank-you for starting this thread.
SSG Schwartz
I don’t feel it’s a major problem. No more so than in any other profession. I have unfortunately seen several examples of employees breaking the rules during my career but it’s certainly not the norm.
Very uncommon. I’ve seen some times where a prisoner will threaten an employee’s family but I don’t recall any incidents where any actual attempt was made.
I don’t think it’s a major problem. The police probably have it worse because they’re working in the real world and their experiences bleed over into their personal lives. We are able to keep our work life very distinct from our regular life because it’s a completely different environment. And we also have the advantage that while we work with some pretty bad people there’s no ambiguity about who’s who - we have a clearly defined situation where we know everyone’s role.
I think you’re misinformed on this. We have three divisions in prison - security (the guards), programs, and administration. A few people move between the divisions but most rise up through the ranks within a single division - you won’t promote a teacher to a sergeant’s job or an officer to a education director’s job. Superintendants (the modern equivalent of wardens) are up at the top of the pyramid and are in charge of all three divisions. But they are promoted from within any of the three divisions. Some superintendants started out as guards but others started out as teachers or clerks or nurses or cooks.
Some officers don’t like superintendants who didn’t come out of a security background (and a few don’t like non-security people in general). Personally, I have no issue with a non-security boss as long as he’s doing a good job.
In most cases we don’t know what their crimes are. It’s not really an issue. We’re mostly concerned about their behavior inside the prison. If they act like men they’ll be treated okay. If they act like fools they’ll be treated like problems.
Not even close. Movies and TV always tend to overdramatize events. And with a prison setting they’re freed of any constraint on reality because most people never see the inside of a prison and can’t say “this is totally unrealistic”.
When a new prisoner starts his sentence we look over his record and interview him to figure out where he belongs. If we figure a person is non-violent and unlikely to be a problem we’ll stick him in a lesser security prison with other non-violent prisoners. It works out better for everybody. The non-violent prisoners don’t cause each other problems; the violent prisoners are denied potential targets; and we avoid the problems.
If for some reason a non-violent prisoner does end up in a maximum security prison, joining a gang isn’t going to be a solution for his problems. Gangs are going to let somebody join just because he wants protection. At best, they may decide to let a weaker prisoner hang out around their fringes so they can exploit him exclusively.
Well not me personally but the prisoner can have sex with his wife during a conjugal visit.
Never read it so I can’t say if it’s realistic. And as for a Pizzooka - I have to put that one off to the side along with the slick-legging question until somebody explains what it means.
We’re not the bad guys. We’re the cops who are working in a really bad neighbourhood trying to enforce the law and maintain the peace. When you hear about bad things happening in a prison it was usually despite our efforts not because of them.
I used to work on a farm. Statistically it was a lot more dangerous working there than inside a prison. And the potential dangers in prison are usually less random and more avoidable if care is taken. So danger isn’t a major preoccupation. I personally have never been injured on the job.
Mostly because I needed a job when I dropped out of college. The test was there and they were hiring so I took the job. In my case, I was more aware of the possibility than most people because I grew up in a prison town (Dannemora) and both of my parents worked in a prison.
It’s a good job overall and I believe I do it well. I wouldn’t have worked in it as long as I have if I hated it.
And while I don’t want to mention a specific figure, I make a surprisingly large amount of money.
Thanks for doing this.
I don’t know. I never discussed it with him. A prisoner’s criminal history is not a subject for casual conversations.
In another thread, I once said that people don’t get sent to prison for making one small mistake. You’ve either got to make a big mistake or a lot of small ones (or be really unlucky). Statistically a large number of our prisoners are doing time for various drug laws. But to get sent to prison for drug violations you’ve got to have several convictions.
As I said above, we judge prisoners based on their prison behavior. Some people who commit murder out on the street are unlikely to kill anyone inside because they don’t have the same motive.
Yes, but I don’t want to name specific names.
I’ve certainly had some completely insane prisoners but I don’t necessarily think hospitalization is a good idea. It’s a long standing debate; what do you do with somebody’s who’s insane and a criminal - treat him like an insane person or like a criminal? Generally it’s easier to provide them mental health therapy inside a prison than to maintain adequate security inside a mental hospital.
Why would you want to use somebody else’s hands?
Okay, seriously, at most prisons the prisoners collect a set of silverware (usually a fork and spoon) as they enter the mess hall and turn them in as they leave. We put a guard at each end to make sure nobody skips either step. I’ve seen a few places that tried permanent issue but it inevitable ends up with prisoners stealing each other’s silverware.
We get minimal training and most of what we get is for liability reasons. I’ve never sought outside training - I prefer to use my brain in self-defense. I’ve known some guards who get into it but I don’t think it’s an unusually large percentage.
County jails are a whole different world.
In New York, you’re hired by the state and will be sent to start working in whatever prison needs employees. Then you can put your name on a list to transfer to another prison. When a vacancy arrives at a prison, the senior guy on the list is transferred in.
The result in New York is that we hire a lot of people from upstate NY and they have to work for several years in a downstate NY prison while they wait for an opening in a prison closer to home. It’s not always a “bad” prison situation - I’ve heard many people say they liked working in the downstate prison better but transferred to a less desirable upstate prison in order to be close to their home.
Various threats and annoyances. I’ve been lucky.
Attempted murder. Actual murder.
How do you define it? We will charge any inmate who has “escape paraphenalia”. Would you consider an inmate hiding a road map in his cell to be the start of an escape attempt?
Personally, I’ve only dealt with one in a prison I was working in and he was caught within a few hours. I’ve also been called in for a few escapes at other prisons and all of them were also caught although in one case it was several months later.
In most cases there weren’t all that many security procedures. Most prisoners who escape do so from minimum security where it’s a lot easier. Escaping from a maximum security is a lot more difficult and is much rarer.
And most “escapees” aren’t really escapees - they’re absconders. Most people would be surprised at how many priosners are out in the public everyday. They’re out on a furlough or a work release and they don’t come back when they were supposed to.
Yes to both. The main difference is the amount of supervision we devote the prisoners. For example, in my current prison (a medium) when it’s time for a company of inmates to go to the mess hall or a recreation area, we just make an announcement and let them walk there. There’ll be officers watching the hallways but not direct supervision. In a maximum security prison, the same group of prisoners would be under the direct control of a guard who would walk with them the whole way and turn them over to another guard at their destination. In a supermax you wouldn’t normally have a group of prisoners - each individual would be escorted seperately between areas.
While I’ve consciously used guards and prisoners in this thread because they’re more familiar to the public, these are not the common terms used in actual prisons. The guards are corrections officers (or CO’s), the prisoners are inmates, and the prison is a facility.
Overall, if I had to pick a defining difference between prisoners and non-prisoners, I’d say that many prisoners lack the empathy that the average person has. Many prisoners will just follow whatever course of action benefits them the most without regard to how it affects other people.
I wasn’t counting them in my previous answer. In most prisons you have at least as many non-security employees as you have security employees.
Women of San Quentin, a 1983 TV movie. It’s the only prison movie I ever felt actually reflected my job.
Prisoners are usually called by just their last names. Occasionally I will call a prisoner Inmate Lastname or Mr Lastname in a more formal setting like a disciplinary hearing.
Employees are usually called by either their title or the combination of their title and last name - Officer or Officer Lastname. Sometimes in a less formal conversation, a prisoner might call an employee by just his last name.
The use of first names is rare. Enough so that there are people I’ve worked with for years whose first names I don’t know.
We have medical staff on duty around the clock. We also have a mental health staff that are either on duty or avaialble on call at all times. Some facilities have fulltime mental health units and if a prisoner needs more care than we can give them we transfer them to a mental health unit.
By the time they reach us, they’ve already spent some time in county jails or reception centers, so I’ve never had to personally deal with prisoners undergoing initial stress.
All employees receive annual suicide prevention training in how to recognize danger signs and what steps to take. Prisoners who attempt to commit suicide or are determined to be in immediate danger of an attempt are put on a fulltime suicide watch until they are transferred to a mental health unit.
Urban Dictionary refers to slick-legging as simulated intercourse using lubricant which does not result in actual penetration. Pizzooka is specific to Wolfe’s book-I can’t find a definition on the net.
Good thread.
You do realize this is going to KILL ME WITH CURIOSITY!!!
I’m sure you’ve heard of the famous Stanford prison study in which a group of volunteers was placed in a mock prison and divided into “guards” and “prisoners”. After a short time the volunteers became so deeply entrenched in their roles that the guards began dehumanizing (and in some cases abusing) the prisoners. IIRC, the experiment had to be terminated early because it got out of hand.
What’s your reaction to this? Do guards need to put up some kind of psychological wall between themselves and the prisoners in order to do their job? Is some level of dehumanization necessary? How often are guards tempted to abuse their position of authority and become bullies?
How prevalent is cell-made wine and such? Ever tasted it?
In that case, there’s probably been some slick-legging in prison. But I’d guess the more traditional fellatio and anal sex acts are more common. I’m guessing relatively few prisoners are saving their chastities for marriage.
That one you’re going to have to live with. But I will say that I’ve been working in prisons since 1982 so I’ve met a lot of the famous criminals in New York in the last few decades.
It gets made. Its disadvantage is that it takes more time and space than other drugs. Its advantage is that it can be manufactured inside the prison without outside supplies.
Not on a bet. People who only drink commerical alcoholic beverages don’t appreciate how much quality control goes into the product - and what the results can be when that quality control is lacking. I’ve seen homemade booze that had fungus growing on it. And smelled worse than it looked.
I’ve written before on my opinions of the Stanford experiment (especially in this thread). It may have presented some interesting ideas about how authority can be abused and how group dynamics can lead to crimes by individuals. But it says nothing specifically about prisons despite Philip Zimbardo’s continued claims.
I don’t feel that prison is a dehumanizing situation so obviously I don’t feel dehumnization is necessary. I do feel that guards need to assume an authority role - they have to be the people who enforce the rules and control the environment. But the same thing could be said about a teacher in a kindergarden class without the negative connotations.
Some guards are bullies and do abuse their authority - but so do some store clerks or librarians or dental hygenists. That’s because these people are assholes not because of their jobs. It’s true that a prison guard might have more opportunity to abuse the people under him but he’s also going to have somebody like me who’s over him and will be watching for signs of abuse and intervening.