Have any of your cases ever hit on you?
Are there any DUI people who are required to be sober 24/7?
Our state has “Truth in Sentencing”.
No time off for good behavior, no traditional ‘parole’, etc. Serve your time until MR (Mandatory Release), then you’re out of prison but “on paper” (under supervision) until you reach your MDD (Maximum Discharge Date). Both the MR and MDD are determined by the judge at the time of sentencing.
Break the rules while you’re out after your MR but before your MDD, and you can go back in, until you reach your new MR date (based on criteria from the Judge’s original sentence) or until you reach your MDD.
We get some folks back for rules violations (not new crimes) who will reach their MDD in less than 90 days, so they’re not held longer than that. Or they’re sent back, but with the knowledge that their new MR date will be only 1 or 2 months in the future.
So frequently the medical staff will become frustrated when we receive a very complex, big resource-consuming inmate who will only be in for a very short time. Again, we recognize that it can be necessary, but we seldom if ever get the real scoop on why they’re dumped back into our overcrowded, underbudgeted system for less than a dozen weeks.
Thanks for relating how your system works.
You guys are real saints at times.
A few years back, I was on probation for 12mon.(meaning I had to go down there 13 times) after the fourth visit I was wishing that muzzles were readily available for some of the other people waiting in the lobby. Then there was the people outside while I was waiting for the bus…
So my question is what were these guys really doing/saying to the POs that, in their eyes, is so unfair or claiming “my PO is a bitch” etc.?
I assume it’s they were not following the rules, but it seemed to be just about everyone was complaining about the PO and not the judge. I was more concerned with getting out of there to get into a conversation with the potentially stupid to find out.
We see them once or twice a month, more often if they’re higher risk. We also do pre-sentence investigations, visit people at work or home, give drug screens, go to court, and mountains of paperwork.
The employment situation is tough. Lots of people complain that no one will hire them because of their record, and use that as an excuse for all sorts of things. The truth is if a person wants a job, they can get one, regardless of their record. Maybe not a job as CEO of a Fortune 500 company, but jobs flipping burgers are absurdly easy to get and keep. The determining factor in someone getting a job is their attitude about work, not their record. If someone won’t get a job, it’s probably because they don’t want one. And if you help that person get a job, it’s a sure bet that he will go in on the second day of work and tell the boss to go fuck himself. So the people who want a job don’t need help getting one, and the ones who don’t want a job won’t keep the one you help them get anyway.
We work four days a week because it kind of works out best for everyone involved. We get to work four days, and our longer hours make it easier for the clients to work appointments around their own work schedules.
Thank you! I agree with the job thing. There are lots of places who will never check your background, and not just bottom-level jobs. I would be endless frustrated to deal with people who flat-out won’t work.
The four-day thing…it makes sense.
A couple have tested the waters but got nowhere.
Yes, as a general rule, if it’s their second DUI they judge will order them not to drink any alcohol while on probation. Also, on first DUIs that were more than twice the legal limit, they’ll sometimes order that as well.
Thanks for the compliment! We used to make people spend weekends in jail for minor rule violations. They were housed together, so you would have maybe 50 people all sitting together for the weekend, all in there for violating probation rules. I’ve heard that the conversation on those weekends focused exclusively on who had the worst probation officer, and people would try to outdo each others’ lies about the ridiculously trivial infractions that had landed them in there. They would say that they were violated for being five minutes late to an appointment, or for coming up two dollars short on their payments, or other such nonsense. It was like a badge of honor to be in there for the most ridiculous reason.
Is there someone they can ask for permission to leave the state? Let’s say it’s his grandma’s funeral or something.
Sure, you can ask me. And assuming you’re not currently in any trouble, I’ll be happy to give you permission.
What qualifications does your job require and what attracted you to it?
As a defense attorney, a couple of things you’ve said in this thread threw up massive red flags, so I have to ask a couple of follow-up questions.
First, how much authority do you have to search a probationer’s house or belongings? If a cop calls you up and says “search this guy,” do you do it, even though the cop didn’t have enough on the guy to get a warrant? Have you ever found anything based on one of these tips, and if so, what happened? As a defense attorney, I’d argue that you’re a state actor and therefore need as much PC as the cops would in order to search someone. It shocks me that you could get away with something a cop wouldn’t be able to.
And the anorexic–did you argue to keep her in jail solely because of her medical condition, or were there other reasons? And if it were the former, could you lock up a probationer who had expressed suicidal ideations?
I don’t want to slip into GD territory here, but I have a few questions about this. I presume that a condition of parole/probation is that the PO can search your house whenever they want. OK, fair enough. I guess the cops are governed by different rules since they are a different agency than the POs, so I can see them needing a warrant even though you have the authority to search without one. Again, fair enough. But, since the cops do need a warrant, if the judge refuses the give them one, then why isn’t it a no-no to ask the PO to do the search?
Let’s say I am on probation for DUI. The cops suspect me of, say, having a human head in my freezer. The judge denies a warrant. You search my house at the request of the cops and–surprise–find the human head in the freezer. How is that evidence admissable at my trial for Human Head Collection? Aren’t you just the proxy for the cops, who weren’t supposed to go looking for heads in my freezer? Isn’t this kind of a big loophole in the whole warrant process?
ETA: Or, pretty much what Drain Bead said.
Here’s a pretty good discussion of the Supreme Court cases: http://www.policechiefs.org/documents/index.cfm?document_id=202&document_type_id=6&fuseaction=document
A discussion of some related issues under Florida law: http://www.sao10.com/JUL00.pdf
By state law, probation officers must be 21, a US citizen, and have a four year degree. After I graduated from college, I applied to a bunch of different law enforcement-type agencies. The probation job was the first one I got, and I liked it so much I stuck with it.
What’s the ratio of men to women in your job? Meaning, are the probation officers in your county mostly men, mostly women, or a pretty good mix of both?
What personality traits, if any, do you see as being common amongst your coworkers?
Thank you Gfactor for those great links. Florida law is more restrictive than ours, in my state things I find in a search can be used to file a new criminal charge.
I’m sure that to a defense attorney, the latitude given to probation officers to search is troubling. I can’t search for NO reason, I am required to have reasonable suspicion, but in all my years I’ve never had a search thrown out for lack of reasonable suspicion. One of my judges has even ruled that the mere fact that the guy is on probation is enough reasonable suspicion for him. If it makes you feel better, I have neither the time nor the desire to go around tossing peoples’ houses for no reason. A lot of weeks I can’t even keep up with the people who are stupid enough to violate their probation while they’re sitting in my office, to say nothing of going out and trying to catch more.
Look at it this way: of someone gives a police officer consent to search their house, the police officer doesn’t need a warrant. When someone in placed on probation with me, they sign a form stating that they waive their fourth amendment rights against search and seizure, and consent to any search. They are of course free to refuse to sign, and I have had people refuse to sign it in the past. In that case I send them back to the court to tell the judge that they don’t want to be on probation. In every case so far, the judge has convinced the person to sign the form.
As to whether I have ever found anything, I have many times and the evidence has always been admitted in violation hearings and in trials on the new charges.
The anorexic girl had been arrested on new criminal charges. When someone on probation is arrested for a new charge, a 15-day hold is placed on them before they are allowed to post bond. The probation officer has the discretion to waive this 15 day hold. I refused to exercise that discretion.
To lock up someone for suicidal ideation, I’d have to go through the same process as the cops.
In the human head scenario, that would be admissible as long as I could show reasonable suspicion. I know it sounds weird- and actually there are some other counties in my state that I think take it too far. In some counties, the probation officers are deputized by the sheriff. So the probation officer shows up at someone’s door and says “you have to let me in to search because I’m a probation officer.” If it was a cop at the door the person could say no, but since it’s a probation officer they have to let him in. Then, if the probation officer finds something illegal, he says “Hey, now I’m a cop, and you’re under arrest.” That’s improper, in my view.
…actually Nuveena’s husband typing…
Good thread. I have been a parole/probation officer for 8 years now. In our state, adult parole and felony/gross mis. probation are supervised by the same state agency under the Department of Public Safety. We are sworn peace officers and are all armed at all times. I think it’s fun looking at the differences between our agencies.
I see all of my people in the office at least once a month. I have a caseload of about 80, all “general supervision” which excludes sex offenders and those on house arrest. I also visit as many as I can at home as often as I can. My visits are basically to assure compliance with the “rules.” We make our own arrests when we discover violations, if those violations are severe enough to require an arrest. You 1st positive drug test will get you counseling if you aren’t already attending.
I think your answer regarding searches was stated perfectly and basically mirrors the 9th circuit opinion in Knights v. California. Everyone on parole/probation agrees to give up their 4th amendment rights (to an extent.) We search based on reasonable suspicion, as opposed to probable cause. In our state, we can search on behalf of another agency at their request, IF they can articulate to the parole officer their reasonable suspicion.
I had no idea that anyone outside the job was interested in it.
What is the drug testing procedures these days? Close watching? Pat downs?
How do you feel about sending someone back to jail for failing a drug test that otherwise is not breaking any laws and shows up in your office every week.
That is interesting. I would love to have a caseload of 80. Mine is so high right now that I really don’t feel like I do the best job I can. It’s mostly just putting out fires. A couple years ago my department decided to specialize and formed a bunch of teams. Court team, field team, etc… So a lot of things I used to do, like home searches and going to court, were taken away from me and given to the teams. It was decided that because I wasn’t doing those things anymore, I should have time to supervise 200-250 people. In a lot of ways the teams have worked out pretty well, but I think this is one of the downsides of it. I pretty much do the same thing every day now, which can lead to burnout. Although I will say that it is never dull.
Sometimes I miss being out in the field, although now that I’m getting older and more out of shape and have kids I think it’s just as well that I’m not.
I’d say it’s about 50-50. Different teams seem to be dominated by different genders. We have a team that does nothing but alcohol and drug assessments, and it is staffed entirely by women and always has been. Women also seem to be drawn more to the juvenile department.
Personalities here really run the whole length of the spectrum. We have some real “law and order” types and some “social worker” types, but in general I’d say we mirror the general population.
Close watching. Thank god we have an employee who does nothing but watch people pee all day, so I don’t have to do it. The guy that does it catches a lot of people with fake penises.
We rarely send people to jail for failing drug screens. For the first failed screen I don’t even file a violation. When someone fails a screen I get them an appointment with our drug and alcohol counselors. If they fail another one I file a violation, but they rarely get jail time. They almost always get a few days on “work crew” which is like picking up trash or something like that. Fail a third drug screen and you’re probably looking at a little bit of time, maybe 10-30 days depending on your record. So I don’t feel too bad about it, because they’ve had so many chances. There are exceptions to this- if you’re pregnant and using drugs the penalty is going to be much harsher, as it will if you’re using meth or heroin.