# Ask the Professional Cooks

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [November 10, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208 "2010-11-10T19:46:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/21 "2010-11-11T19:12:50Z")

</div>

> [@zoid](#):
>
> 😃
> 
> I laughed, I admit it.

Plating! Any tips at all on plating?  
How do I learn it?  
I can cook well for a home-cook but my plates are, well, boring.

oops - meant to edit that not quote it

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/22 "2010-11-11T20:52:38Z")

</div>

> [@Alpha\_Twit](#):
>
> One more question for the chefs if I may.
> 
> I watch a lot of cooking shows. Quite often these TV chefs display impressive knife skills such as peeling and fine chopping a bushel of potatoes in a matter of minutes. Is this just interesting TV or is this actually representative of the level of skill of good chef should be able to display?
> 
> Can you give me any hints on perfecting my knife skills? As with so many other things, it seems best to concentrate on _technique_ first and then it’s just repetition, repetition, repetition. Speed will come. Anything you would add to this?

Any chef worth his/her salt has decent to excellent knife skills. On TV I’m sure it’s played up in certain instances, but the chef obviously already has the skills to be able to do such.

It really is mastering the technique + repetition, repetition, repetition. In knife skills class, we had speed drills where we’d each be given, say, a bunch of carrots a few onions, maybe potatoes. The instructor would tell us “Cut two into such-and-such a cut, cut that into this cut”, and we’d literally race each other. We’d be marked on how well we did the particular cut. Our average in that class made up a portion of our final grade that semester.

We didn’t have speed drills when we were taught how to cut meat or fish. There, mastering the technique was more important.

There are few cuts I haven’t done since leaving school, mostly the “fancier” type like cutting a tomato into a rose or butchering certain types of fish. I’m not even sure I’d remember how to do them now.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/23 "2010-11-11T21:00:17Z")

</div>

> [@Tabby\_Cat](#):
>
> Ok, my question: Is this a career? How old do you see yourself doing this until, and what will you do next?
> 
> I can’t imagine myself at say 50 working til 3am and 3 days on 3 days off. But maybe that’s me?

It IS tough the older you get. I’m turning 50 tomorrow. If you had asked me, say, 10-15 years ago if I’d still be doing what I’m doing, I would have laughed uproariously. Silly me.

In all honesty? I don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to do this. I’ve had injuries that should have convinced me never to return. Ditto my arthritic back, legs, feet. But I still do it. It’s become an extension of myself in that I cannot picture myself _not_ doing it or keeping a finger in it in some way.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/24 "2010-11-11T21:06:19Z")

</div>

I have been a cook for four years now and have yet to get a blow job in the cooler.Any advice?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/25 "2010-11-11T21:12:19Z")

</div>

> [@kiz](#):
>
> It IS tough the older you get. I’m turning 50 tomorrow. If you had asked me, say, 10-15 years ago if I’d still be doing what I’m doing, I would have laughed uproariously. Silly me.
> 
> In all honesty? I don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to do this. I’ve had injuries that should have convinced me never to return. Ditto my arthritic back, legs, feet. But I still do it. It’s become an extension of myself in that I cannot picture myself _not_ doing it or keeping a finger in it in some way.

Yeah, a professional cook friend of mine is in his mid-50s, and is a _wreck_. His knees and elbows are pretty much ruined, and his hips are not much better.

I did have some experience in a nice restaurant myself in my late teens and saw first-hand the effects on a person’s mind in that environment. I was doing salads and prep, and the two line cooks were seafood and steaks. The seafood cook would name the lobsters and the steak guy had worked as a knife-thrower in a carnival and would sometimes start throwing steak knives at an old cutting board over the dishwasher. We went through dishwasher operators at a fairly rapid clip.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/26 "2010-11-12T05:22:38Z")

</div>

> [@kiz](#):
>
> It really is mastering the technique + repetition, repetition, repetition. In knife skills class, we had speed drills where we’d each be given, say, a bunch of carrots a few onions, maybe potatoes. The instructor would tell us “Cut two into such-and-such a cut, cut that into this cut”, and we’d literally race each other.

Pretty much this. Eventually, your muscles learn how to chop and cut, just like your fingers learn to type. Its also important to have a knife that works with your hand. Think about that scene in the first _Harry Potter_, where he tries out different wands until he finds the one that “fits.” Its the same with knives. I used a Forschenr in school, then a Henckle, and then I found a Global that fits me best. After 3 years with that Global, I found a different one that works even better.

I don’t know if a home cook is ever going to get the speed and accuracy of a professional cook with a knife, because we use it all day long, cutting sometimes hundreds of pounds of the same vegetable. Try to julienne 80 pounds of onions for french onion soup, and then do it every week for a year. After that, when someone asks you to julienne just one onion, it takes you less then 10 seconds, and every piece is uniform.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/27 "2010-11-12T06:02:08Z")

</div>

> [@gaffa](#):
>
> Yeah, a professional cook friend of mine is in his mid-50s, and is a _wreck_. His knees and elbows are pretty much ruined, and his hips are not much better.

Ever wonder why many TV chefs (I’m talking actual chefs as opposed to Food Network presenters, btw) no longer work in actual kitchens? That’s why. And most of them are around my age.

> [@](#):
>
> I did have some experience in a nice restaurant myself in my late teens and saw first-hand the effects on a person’s mind in that environment…

It does do something to your mind after awhile. I’m still not quite sure what it is – maybe it’s the whole shebang with the repetition plus the heat plus the general chaos? I’ve been known to yell at my oven at random times!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/28 "2010-11-12T06:02:44Z")

</div>

> [@zoid](#):
>
> Plating! Any tips at all on plating?  
> How do I learn it?  
> I can cook well for a home-cook but my plates are, well, boring.

There are so many ways to think about plating. Its art.

In the last 10 years or so, [the plate has transformed](http://slimages.macys.com/is/image/MCY/products/6/optimized/531176_fpx.tif?wid=300&fmt=jpeg&qlt=100) from the “canvas” that the food sits on, into a part of the composition itself. You have to consider how a plate will help your composition.

Height is a big thing. Putting 3 things down on a plate in the traditional “[3 point landing](http://cupcakesandcrinoline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dinner.jpg)” will look boring, but stacking those 3 things can be [dramatic](http://www.starchefs.com/gallery3/albums/album-972/cache/NY_Crema_Julieta_Ballesteros_VW_2010-42.jpg_693_475_0_80_1_50_50.jpg). Of course, it can also look [like crap](http://www.funwithyourfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/P7140712.JPG).

[White space](http://www.parisbao.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/chef-plating-fish-hidden-kitchen.jpg) is a new trend, and it works well with a stunning plate. [Seperate](http://www3.timeoutny.com/chicago/blog/out-and-about/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/480food.jpg) your components and give each of them a bit of the spot light.

Finally, forget about garnishes. Don’t stick a sprig of rosemary into your food. Don’t bother with tomato skin roses. Let the food speak for itself. Compose the appearance of your dish just as you do the flavor. [Look at this soup](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/3040119350_fa3c1ebc56.jpg), for example. The chef took the time to draw a picture for you. how thoughtful. But now [look at this soup](http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/MeetaA/Food/BellPepperSoup01.jpg). It has a simple dollop of sour cream that adds acidity to balance the sweetness of the bell peppers and maple syrup, and a precisely cut toast point, that adds crunch to an otherwise smooth dish. Some real thought went into these choices, while the first example just “looks cool.”

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/29 "2010-11-12T08:19:28Z")

</div>

Background: Apprenticed for two years. Opened two restaurants for other people and one for myself. I’ve prepped, worked the hot and cold lines, as well as banquets and buffets. I’ve also worked the’pass’ The life is for the young. I couldn’t work a line anymore, but I still have dreams about not getting the food up on time.(drat you cooking shows!)

I find Hells Kitchen more of a survivor type show. I’ve had Chefs yell but not to Ramsey’s degree. When I worked the pass it was all about conmmunication. How long for something etc. Couldn’t lose your cool though.

When cooking at home I still plate as if I’m in a restaurant. Balanced and attactive.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/30 "2010-11-12T13:21:07Z")

</div>

> [@zoid](#):
>
> Plating! Any tips at all on plating?  
> How do I learn it?  
> I can cook well for a home-cook but my plates are, well, boring.

I’ve found that a lot of plating depends on your plates. It’s very difficult to make a colored and/or patterned plate look nice. Occasionally it works - like if you have the perfect-colored food on a nicely contrasty plate - but most of the time fancy plates just make it harder.

I ended up buying a set of cheap, white plates at Target and Pier One (getting different pieces from each). Just plain, white, round plates. I have some really big round plates from Target for when I want to do something more dramatic. I also found some square shallow bowls from Target that work well for salads and things that involve a lot of runny sauce.

Even plain food - think a steak, with a bit of sauce - look nice when presented on a neutral background like this.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/31 "2010-11-12T13:46:45Z")

</div>

> [@Athena](#):
>
> I’ve found that a lot of plating depends on your plates. It’s very difficult to make a colored and/or patterned plate look nice. Occasionally it works - like if you have the perfect-colored food on a nicely contrasty plate - but most of the time fancy plates just make it harder.
> 
> I ended up buying a set of cheap, white plates at Target and Pier One (getting different pieces from each). Just plain, white, round plates. I have some really big round plates from Target for when I want to do something more dramatic. I also found some square shallow bowls from Target that work well for salads and things that involve a lot of runny sauce.
> 
> Even plain food - think a steak, with a bit of sauce - look nice when presented on a neutral background like this.

Absolutely. That’s why a lot of restaurants use white or light-colored dishes. Also, your chances of the food clashing with the plate color become nil 😉

I’d never consider myself a great plater, but my suggestion is to study photos and notice why the chef decided on X placement, say as opposed to Y. I always stick to the axiom “Simple is best” because anything more than that, to me, smacks of pretentiousness.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/32 "2010-11-12T13:51:25Z")

</div>

> [@eenerms](#):
>
> Background: Apprenticed for two years. Opened two restaurants for other people and one for myself. I’ve prepped, worked the hot and cold lines, as well as banquets and buffets. I’ve also worked the’pass’ The life is for the young. I couldn’t work a line anymore, but I still have dreams about not getting the food up on time.(drat you cooking shows!)
> 
> I find Hells Kitchen more of a survivor type show. I’ve had Chefs yell but not to Ramsey’s degree. When I worked the pass it was all about conmmunication. How long for something etc. Couldn’t lose your cool though.
> 
> When cooking at home I still plate as if I’m in a restaurant. Balanced and attactive.

HK is definitely more of a Survivor show while Top Chef is…well, Top Chef 😉

I’ve always taken Ramsay’s yelling with a grain of salt because it’s part of his HK _schtick_. I’ve had managers very much in his vein, though. My very first kitchen job the chef was trying to drive home a point he didn’t think I understood so he did the “slam fist on counter and get into my face” and upended most of what I’d prepped. Then I got yelled at because I had to do it all over again.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/33 "2010-11-12T14:41:37Z")

</div>

> [@Amblydoper](#):
>
> Pretty much this. Eventually, your muscles learn how to chop and cut, just like your fingers learn to type. Its also important to have a knife that works with your hand. Think about that scene in the first _Harry Potter_, where he tries out different wands until he finds the one that “fits.” Its the same with knives. I used a Forschenr in school, then a Henckle, and then I found a Global that fits me best. After 3 years with that Global, I found a different one that works even better.
> 
> I don’t know if a home cook is ever going to get the speed and accuracy of a professional cook with a knife, because we use it all day long, cutting sometimes hundreds of pounds of the same vegetable. Try to julienne 80 pounds of onions for french onion soup, and then do it every week for a year. After that, when someone asks you to julienne just one onion, it takes you less then 10 seconds, and every piece is uniform.

As a guitarist, I totally get this. It is amazing how even the most simple, everyday basic task can be improved with the right tools and a practiced motion. We all think we know how to use a knife, but whenever I am next to a pro, it is pretty laughable.

Is there a magic moment when you turn a corner, realize that you DON’T have to think about knife-work anymore - it is second nature to you now - and if so, what did you turn your attention to next? What layers of “second nature” have been burned into you, in what order - and how has being able to look past those ingrained skills changed your approach to cooking?

Sorry if this is too over-thought - it is something I ponder about stuff I have made second nature…

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/34 "2010-11-12T14:51:24Z")

</div>

> [@zoid](#):
>
> Plating! Any tips at all on plating?

Use copious amounts of parsley and lemon halves cut into a star shape, and voila! You are transported back into the late 1980’s/early 1990’s “surf and turf” establishments. You can almost _feel_ the red velvet upholstery in the booths on your skin!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/35 "2010-11-12T15:06:57Z")

</div>

Curly parsley, lemon wedges, radish roses, and a basket cut from a watermellon - got it!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/36 "2010-11-12T16:51:39Z")

</div>

Knife skills: I don’t know that there’s ANY way for a home cook to get as good with a knife as a professional cook. There’s no way around spending several hours a day for months (or years) at a time prepping vegetables. You get good & fast.

I probably dice up more vegetables every week than your average person - easily 15-30 minutes most days - and though I’m faster than a lot of people, I’m nothing compared to even the most basic kitchen grunt.

You can obviously learn good techniques, though, and it helps. There’s a correct way to dice an onion, crush garlic, etc, and plenty of resources on the web to learn from. I’m always amazed when I go to someone’s house and watch them try to dice an onion with a 3" paring knife and a plate. Just getting a chef’s knife and a cutting board will speed things up tremendously.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/37 "2010-11-12T17:22:27Z")

</div>

> [@LH75](#):
>
> Tony Bourdain was a regular in an AOL chat room and message board back before anyone knew who he was. I still have some of the cooking tips he posted.

Youre going to say that much, but not share one measly tip? ☹

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/38 "2010-11-12T18:40:05Z")

</div>

> [@Amblydoper](#):
>
> There are so many ways to think about plating. Its art.
> 
> In the last 10 years or so, [the plate has transformed](http://slimages.macys.com/is/image/MCY/products/6/optimized/531176_fpx.tif?wid=300&fmt=jpeg&qlt=100) from the “canvas” that the food sits on, into a part of the composition itself. You have to consider how a plate will help your composition.
> 
> Height is a big thing. Putting 3 things down on a plate in the traditional “[3 point landing](http://cupcakesandcrinoline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dinner.jpg)” will look boring, but stacking those 3 things can be [dramatic](http://www.starchefs.com/gallery3/albums/album-972/cache/NY_Crema_Julieta_Ballesteros_VW_2010-42.jpg_693_475_0_80_1_50_50.jpg). Of course, it can also look [like crap](http://www.funwithyourfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/P7140712.JPG).
> 
> [White space](http://www.parisbao.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/chef-plating-fish-hidden-kitchen.jpg) is a new trend, and it works well with a stunning plate. [Seperate](http://www3.timeoutny.com/chicago/blog/out-and-about/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/480food.jpg) your components and give each of them a bit of the spot light.
> 
> Finally, forget about garnishes. Don’t stick a sprig of rosemary into your food. Don’t bother with tomato skin roses. Let the food speak for itself. Compose the appearance of your dish just as you do the flavor. [Look at this soup](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/3040119350_fa3c1ebc56.jpg), for example. The chef took the time to draw a picture for you. how thoughtful. But now [look at this soup](http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/MeetaA/Food/BellPepperSoup01.jpg). It has a simple dollop of sour cream that adds acidity to balance the sweetness of the bell peppers and maple syrup, and a precisely cut toast point, that adds crunch to an otherwise smooth dish. Some real thought went into these choices, while the first example just “looks cool.”

Wonderful post. Thank you for taking the time to illustrate exactly what you mean.

What do you think of television cooking programs? Do you respect _Top Chef_ or _Chopped_? Loathe Sandra Lee and Rachel Ray?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/39 "2010-11-12T18:54:43Z")

</div>

> [@purplehorseshoe](#):
>
> Youre going to say that much, but not share one measly tip? ☹

I have to dig it up off of an old hard drive. I will find it this evening.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208/40 "2010-11-12T19:27:34Z")

</div>

I’m not going to hijack, and I love the comments and questions that have come up so far, but I just wanted to add two things.

First, even in KC, Bourdain freely admits he’s not and never will be in caliber of great chefs like Eric Ripert. His comment was something to the effect of, “Maybe I could have done it, but I spent my career chasing after the money rather than constantly advancing my skills.”

Two, as a private chef, let me offer this bit of advice on knife skills. What’s been listed above in terms of technique + repetition is vital, but what’s also vital is _attentiveness_. When I was teaching myself proper knife work, an old adage from when I was learning to shoot kept coming to mind: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Take your time, do it exactly right every time, and do it a lot. In no time at all you’ll find your precision remaining the same while your speed improves dramatically. Heck, I’m pretty fast with a knife now, but I still find myself repeating those words like a mantra from time to time when I have a lot of prep to do.

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208.md?page=1)

[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-professional-cooks/560208.md?page=3)