# Ask the Psychic **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 1, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953 "2006-05-01T14:20:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/81 "2006-05-02T21:23:58Z")
> [@micahjn](#): > > I think this was it being referred to: I think this was **the line** being referred to. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/82 "2006-05-02T22:26:14Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I’ve only done it a few times, and each time it’s been in person. I doubt I’d be able to do it without having someone with a connection to the person I’m reading in the room. Good answer…I’d be impressed, if you were able to do a cold read over the Internet. (Although, “in the same room” kinda conflicts with the whole idea of “distant”…) > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > In what way is he a charlatan, in your opinion? Basically, he designs his tests in such a way that deliberately prevent _any_ person from succeeding, whether he has real psychic powers or not. He also demands impossible results, like a dowser who found 17 of 20 water sources, but failed the test because he didn’t find all 20. Another example: He had 12 people stand behind a screen, so their “aura” could be visible (but not the person) and had a psychic guess each person’s birth month by reading the aura. Anyone who’s studied auras, and how they work, will know that you CAN’T read the aura, if you can’t see the person. It’s not like a solar eclipse. And what’s to keep the test subject from pulling their aura all the way to their skin?? Then you can’t read it at all, even if you see the person. Psychic powers are 90% subjective – that’s why they don’t stand up to Scientific Method. However, that does _not_ necessarily make them fake. After all, every person’s experience with the universe is **100%** subjective. We may all agree on certain things, like the earth revolving around the sun, or the Apollo missions being real. That’s Logic. But, there’s a whole realm of human experience that goes beyond Logic, and people who limit themselves to what can be determined by reading thermometers, calculators, wind gauges and Gallup polls, are really selling themselves short. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/83 "2006-05-02T22:29:16Z")
I asked you, “(1) For what reason should anyone consider that you possess genuine psychic faculties? Putting it another way, what evidence would you offer to support the contention that you have psychic abilities or gifts?” You said: > [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Please remember, that psychic =! omniscient. I’m not much of a reader yet, but my belief is that they aren’t supposed to give you direct answers about the future so much as tell you what you need to hear. Think of it as a guide. I still believe that you make your own destiny." This does not even address, let alone answer, the question that I put to you. And note that my question is not one that requires any psychic faculties. It’s just a question of fact. I asked you, “Are you able and qualified to answer questions in a way that constitutes more than just jokes, evasive manoevres, guesswork or cold reading? If so, please explain the underlying mechanism by which you receive the information contained in your answers.” You said: > [@](#): > > That’s up to you. Please be advised that flippant questions will get flippant responses and joke questions (like **tdn’s** ) will get joke answers. I will be as honest and forthcoming as you are in your questions. No, it’s not up to me. It may be up to me to form an opinion about your abilities, and I expect this is what you meant. But my question is about the nature of the claim you are making when you call yourself a psychic, and when you invite people to ask you questions on the _basis_ that you are psychic. Two simple factual questions. You haven’t addressed either of them. If you can’t even handle questions of simple fact, it is hard to credit the belief that you can answer questions which would require the exercise of psychic faculties. So let’s try again. After all, this message board is about fighting ignorance, not spreading it around, and _if_ (note the word ‘if’) you are bogus, then this is worth pointing out. (1) For what reason should anyone consider that you possess genuine psychic faculties? Putting it another way, what evidence would you offer to support the contention that you have psychic abilities or gifts? (2) Are you able and qualified to answer questions in a way that constitutes more than just jokes, evasive manoevres, guesswork or cold reading? If so, please explain the underlying mechanism by which you receive the information contained in your answers. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/84 "2006-05-02T22:39:26Z")
> [@hawksgirl](#): > > I’m no psychic, but I beg to differ. > The answer is… > > 5,853. > > Yes, I did it once. I was VERY bored that day… You are both wrong. > [@](#): > > In two separate studies, engineering students at Purdue University and the University of Michigan designed a licking machine (yes, we wish we had a photo, too) to find the answer to the age-old question, “How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?” The Purdue machine averaged 364 licks, while Michigan’s took an average of 411 licks. Other studies conducted with human volunteers resulted in averages of 252 and 144 licks. Perhaps the world really will never know just how many licks it takes … The quote is from [Mythbusters.](http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/quiz/quiz.html?clik=fanmain_leftnav) It is the answer to one of the “Tricky Treats” quiz questions. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/85 "2006-05-02T22:49:19Z")
I thought this was a joke thread at the outset … you’re _serious_? OK, then. I just rolled up a number on percentile dice (what can I say, I’ve been a geek for years.) I’ve written it down on a Post-It, and I’ve stuck it to the front of my computer. I’m looking at it right now. (Yes, I _can_ touch-type.) Number. Randomly generated, between 1 and 100. What is it? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/86 "2006-05-02T23:08:02Z")
> [@micahjn](#): > > Just so we’re all on the same page, can you define what you mean by “psychic” for the purposes of this thread? [This one doesn’t seem half bad.](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=psychic) ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/87 "2006-05-02T23:08:48Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > When I was first taking a course on meditation and learning what I could do, one of the exercises I did was called a distance reading. I paired up with someone I didn’t know, they thought of another person I’d never met, and I described them. > > Not only was I able to describe this person’s favorite type of music, but I described their manner of dress and even was able to talk about his favorite cowboy hat. I also got that this person had dropped out of high school in the 11th grade. She said I was spot on. > > I have to tell you, when that happens, you kind of get a little freaked out. Do you understand that cold reading techniques can be used unconsciously? Plenty of dowsers believe in what they’re doing too. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/88 "2006-05-02T23:10:36Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Go ahead, ask me anything. I mentally sent you a question an hour ago. Why haven’t you answered it yet? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/89 "2006-05-02T23:11:52Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > With all due respect, horse hockey. If you can do the distance reading that you say you can, Randi will gladly give you the prize. > > Look, either you can or you cannot. It is really quite simple to determine. If you can perform that task at a rate statistically significantly higher than chance you have won. I suspect that a reading so detailed would be quite easy to set up. What do you have to lose. Nothing, I suppose. I may attempt it one day. However, I don’t feel ready to do it for an audience just yet. Fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/90 "2006-05-02T23:15:13Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Good answer…I’d be impressed, if you were able to do a cold read over the Internet. (Although, “in the same room” kinda conflicts with the whole idea of “distant”…) I believe the idea is that you use the relationship the person in the room has with the person who isn’t in the room to read the person who isn’t in the room. Honestly I don’t know _how_ it works, only that it does work. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/91 "2006-05-02T23:17:49Z")
I am not here to comment on the validity or merits of the Million Dollar Challenge referred to on the James Randi Educational Foundation website, and I myself have some reservations about the merits of the Challenge. However, since we’re here to ‘fight ignorance’ rather than spread it around, may I just offer some factual corrections. > [@KGS](#): > > Basically, he designs his tests in such a way that deliberately prevent _any_ person from succeeding, whether he has real psychic powers or not. This is incorrect on several counts, and suggests that either **KGS** has never bothered to read the terms and conditions of the Challenge, or has failed to understand them. (1) Randi does not design the tests for any claimant. Prior to any test taking place, the claimant and those appointed to conduct the tests _jointly_ devise a test which _all parties agree_ will constitute a valid test of the claimant’s abilities as the claimant cares to state them. The people appointed to conduct and supervise the tests are also selected and agreed _jointly_ by all parties concerned before any test goes ahead. (2) The tests are not designed such that they cannot be passed. In every single case of a test being conducted according to the terms and conditions of the Challenge, there is an empirically verifiable ‘score’ or ‘benchmark’ which _all parties agree_ will consitute success. > [@](#): > > He also demands impossible results Wrong again, ignorant again. See above. Before any test takes place, all parties (including the claimant, obviously) agree what will constitute success or failure. > [@](#): > > like a dowser who found 17 of 20 water sources, but failed the test because he didn’t find all 20. There is no accurate and independently verifable cite supporting the claim that (a) a dowser obtained these results while participating in the Million Dollar Challenge and (b) that a pass rate of 20 hits out of 20 was required to be considered a success. If you disagree, then please provide such a citation. You cannot, because none exists. > [@](#): > > Another example: He had 12 people stand behind a screen, so their “aura” could be visible (but not the person) and had a psychic guess each person’s birth month by reading the aura. Anyone who’s studied auras, and how they work, will know that you CAN’T read the aura, if you can’t see the person. It’s not like a solar eclipse. The only thing this is an ‘example’ of is your imagination and ignorance. If this test to which you refer was being conducted within the terms and conditions of the Challenge, then the claimant (the person claiming to be able to read auras) _must_ have agreed in advance that this was a valid way to test the claim being made, or else the test would not and could not have proceeded. It is also not the case that ‘anyone’ who has studied auras would agree that if you can’t see the person, you can’t see the aura. James Randi made a TV series for Granada TV here in the UK. I attended some of the tapings, and I knew some of the production team working on the show. One of the shows featured a test along the lines you describe, in which an aura reader attempted to detect the aura of someone standing behind a screen, the test being predicated on the notion that the aura extends beyond the boundary of the physical body. The aura reader had _agreed in advance_ that this was a fair test of the stated ability, and the production team had this agreement in writing, signed by all parties. Just for clarification, however, let me point out that the demonstrations and tests featured in these TV shows were not considered to be anything to do with the Million dollar Challenge, nor were they ever represented as such. In fact, this particular series was made before the Million Dollar Challenge was actually formulated as such. The aura reader failed this test anyway, which is beside the point. The point is, the aura reader had agreed in writing beforehand that the test was a valid one. This was actually a legal requirement that the production team had to observe scrupulously - they could not conduct these tests and broadcast them unless all parties had agreed that the tests were a valid way of exploring the authenticity of the claims being made. > [@](#): > > Psychic powers are 90% subjective – that’s why they don’t stand up to Scientific Method. Your own sentence doesn’t make sense. If it is the case that 10% of ‘psychic powers’ are not subjective, then this 10% shuld be verifiable through controlled scientific trials. At the present time, no such supporting evidence has been produced. This may change in the future, of course, but all we can do is state what we know to be the case based on evidence available to date. > [@](#): > > But, there’s a whole realm of human experience that goes beyond Logic, and people who limit themselves to what can be determined by reading thermometers, calculators, wind gauges and Gallup polls, are really selling themselves short. No-one is discussing limiting one’s appreciation or experience to things that can be measured by instrumentation. The point is that some psychics maintain that their powers can be verified via the scientific method and empirical evidence, and have participated in the Million Dollar Challenge on this basis. To date, none have demonstrated that this is the case. It is incorrect to state otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/92 "2006-05-02T23:28:05Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > I asked you, “(1) For what reason should anyone consider that you possess genuine psychic faculties? Putting it another way, what evidence would you offer to support the contention that you have psychic abilities or gifts?” > > [Your answer] does not even address, let alone answer, the question that I put to you. And note that my question is not one that requires any psychic faculties. It’s just a question of fact. You’re right, that doesn’t answer you’re question. I answered a lot of these while I was at work, so I might’ve been distracted. I’ll try again. I knew coming into this thread that someone would ask for evidence that would be difficult, if not impossible, to provide over the internet. I’ve already posted about an experience which I feel at least should at least provoke further questioning into the subject. I’ve been waiting for someone to come along and accuse me of making the whole thing up which, amazingly, hasn’t happened yet. I don’t know that this medium allows for me to prove anything to you in the manner to which the members of this board are accustomed. May I ask what kind of evidence you would find convincing? > [@](#): > > I asked you, “Are you able and qualified to answer questions in a way that constitutes more than just jokes, evasive manoevres, guesswork or cold reading? If so, please explain the underlying mechanism by which you receive the information contained in your answers.” > > No, it’s not up to me. It may be up to me to form an opinion about your abilities, and I expect this is what you meant. But my question is about the nature of the claim you are making when you call yourself a psychic, and when you invite people to ask you questions on the _basis_ that you are psychic. Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry if it wasn’t clear. Like I said earlier, if someone is being flippant, like the very first reply to this thread was, they will get a flippant answer. I will answer honestly if the question is asked honestly. I would ask you to review my responses to **AuntBeast** and **KGS** and then consider if I’m responding with “jokes, evasive, manuvers, guesswork, or cold reading”. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/93 "2006-05-02T23:29:43Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Do you understand that cold reading techniques can be used unconsciously? Plenty of dowsers believe in what they’re doing too. Interesting. Might you have any links about that I could read? I am willing to admit there’s a possibilty that I’m mistaken or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/94 "2006-05-02T23:31:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I mentally sent you a question an hour ago. Why haven’t you answered it yet? And I answered you telepathically. Not my fault if you weren’t paying attention. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/95 "2006-05-02T23:32:53Z")
**Ashtar** – > [@](#): > > Not only was I able to describe this person’s favorite type of music, but I described their manner of dress and even was able to talk about his favorite cowboy hat. I also got that this person had dropped out of high school in the 11th grade. She said I was spot on. I would have told you this, too. And I’ve have totally been fucking with you: YOU: "I’m sensing that your deceased aunt was a left-handed Inuit ballerina named Mabel . . . " ME: "_My God, you’re right!!!_ I find your faith in both yourself and your fellow humans to be touching. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/96 "2006-05-02T23:42:14Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > Prior to any test taking place, the claimant and those appointed to conduct the tests _jointly_ devise a test which _all parties agree_ will constitute a valid test of the claimant’s abilities as the claimant cares to state them. The people appointed to conduct and supervise the tests are also selected and agreed _jointly_ by all parties concerned before any test goes ahead. You are correct, sir. Now…why any “real” psychic would agree to some of these rules, when they are certain to fail…well, it shows that the test-taker really doesn’t understand their psychic abilities at all. Either that, or they themselves are in league with Randi, and deliberately fail, _$64,000 Question_ style. (Not that there’s anything _legally_ wrong with that…such contests are purely for entertainment, after all!) > [@](#): > > There is no accurate and independently verifable cite supporting the claim that (a) a dowser obtained these results while participating in the Million Dollar Challenge and (b) that a pass rate of 20 hits out of 20 was required to be considered a success. If you disagree, then please provide such a citation. You cannot, because none exists. This was something I saw during one of Randi’s televised specials, many years ago. Forgive me if I got the details wrong…it might have been 17 of 22 water sources, not 20. (In any case, it was definitely more than half.) However, I _do_ remember that the _required total_ had to be 100% success, _nothing_ less. If you do not trust my assertion, and refuse to believe what I say absent any direct citation from the scholarly/scientific community…well, what else can I say? Remember that “100% Subjective” statement I made? That’s it, right there. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/97 "2006-05-02T23:43:05Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > May I ask what kind of evidence you would find convincing? Let me rephrase. May I ask what kind of evidence that I can provide to you in this medium would you find convincing? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/98 "2006-05-02T23:45:12Z")
Oh, **ianzin**? Lord Ashtar already answered your question, in fact you cited it. At least, the answer to this question: > [@ianzin](#): > > (1) For what reason should anyone consider that you possess genuine psychic faculties? Putting it another way, what evidence would you offer to support the contention that you have psychic abilities or gifts? Read your post again, until you see it. If you don’t see the answer by tomorrow, I will point it out for you. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/99 "2006-05-02T23:49:04Z")
Oh, flippant, was it? How have you been able to offer any proof that you aren’t making up a bunch of BS to play into peoples’ naivete? You aren’t going to find much of that here, pal. If you’re a psychic, as you claim, offer some proof. Enough with the evasive non-answers and the dismissal of criticism and the ignoring of people who don’t believe any of your claims. It’s time to pony up, or quit wasting our time. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953/100 "2006-05-02T23:54:28Z")
> [@Steve Wright](#): > > I just rolled up a number on percentile dice (what can I say, I’ve been a geek for years.) I’ve written it down on a Post-It, and I’ve stuck it to the front of my computer. I’m looking at it right now. (Yes, I _can_ touch-type.) > > Number. Randomly generated, between 1 and 100. What is it? I don’t have the ability to do this. See my earlier post about how psychic =! omniscient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-psychic/354953.md?page=6)