# Ask the Rape Victim **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060 "2010-09-17T08:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/81 "2010-09-19T17:27:28Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > **Fried Dough Ho** Do you wonder how your life could have taken a different turn if you hadn’t had these hurdles to jump? The people puddle thing would have driven me spare, the shock of realizing you didn’t know that person at all, that again you were being used and deceived - I’m supposing you had no idea. Obviously, we all wonder about the Road Not Taken. I am philosophical in that I am fairly proud of what I have accomplished in my life and the person that I am today. It took a long time to get to this point and none of it would have come about without the trials and tribulations. The only inkling I had from my Husband was that he confessed that he had “experimented in college.” I am a very understanding and forgiving person and believed when he told me it was a passing phase. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/82 "2010-09-19T18:42:28Z")
**kanicbird** , you may have missed where **Fried Dough Ho** said that the teacher’s next sexual target was a 14-year-old. The evidence doesn’t point to his being an honorable man carried away by Love. **Fried Dough Ho** , I’m curious – there’s been such a change in the way society views rape and molestation. What do you think would be different (if anything) if these awful things happened to you today? Also, the closest bakery makes an unbelievable vanilla pudding and chocolate croissant. I offer you a virtual vp&cc as an eensy token of my sympathy and respect. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/83 "2010-09-19T22:24:22Z")
**Shantih** ~ Back then, the act was kept hidden and many adults attempted to sweep the incident under the rug. For the Statutory Rape, there would be lawsuits up the yin-yang; the School Board would be held more accountable of their treatment of me. I would like to imagine that my First Rape would have been dealt with better by the police. No clue how the Third Rape could be handled much differently; demand DNA samples from all participants of the Faire? Unlikely… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/84 "2010-09-19T22:26:21Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > **kanicbird** , I think you’re trying to be helpful in your own way, really - but it does sound like you’re trying to get the OP and others to empathize with a teacher who has had sex (or tried) with more than one of his underage students. That’s not really helpful here. Thank you for understanding that I am trying to help, hopefully you won’t mind if I disagree with your last sentence. It is helpful in the sense that if the anger is misplaced it will hinder healing, getting at the root cause of the real anger, which I believe stem from her childhood. This anger at this teacher is a distraction from that, she can just feel angry at him and get some relief without dealing with the anger from childhood. I also feel this teacher has issues from his past as well. The current blame system does not work and has us hold grudges against already damaged people, instead of the root cause. I had a similar pattern of abuse, violation and abandonment as the OP (not ready to start a thread on it thank-you-very-much), and it caused me to get angry against the people, like she expressed anger against that teacher. It turned out that those people were also hurting, and searching for love in any form they could get in their damaged state, and once they tried to obtain the love they needed they felt a sense of guilt because of societal rules, it was unfounded guilt, but it stopped the flow of love and gave me the same hurt, confusion, and abandonment as expressed by the OP. The abandonment was additionally hard because it was not in my power to stop it, as it was because of rules society set up. The real focus, the healing began when I began to see the root, the childhood abandonment, and the cause of the ongoing abandonment - patterns set in my mind that influenced relationships to bring about the early life result. I had to let go of the anger towards others to allow myself to heal. Also it is that I don’t feel one should be spreading blame on others who are hurting as a way to cope. Yes the victim needs to know that they were the victim, but sometimes the person who gets the blame is also a victim. The goal of counseling should be the healing through love, not finding someone to blame IMHO. Society works because society set up rules to deflect blame from itself and place it on the people. Was their relationship wrong, I can’t answer, that is between the **Fried Dough Ho** and that teacher, what really went on between them when they were ‘together’. I still feel some sort of indirect answer was given by **Fried Dough Ho** in her latest post, basically what happened later instead of if she felt love at the moment. So the question I ask to **Fried Dough Ho** , regardless of what happened afterwords, did you feel love when he held you in his arms at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/85 "2010-09-19T22:48:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > So the question I ask to **Fried Dough Ho** , regardless of what happened afterwords, did you feel love when he held you in his arms at the time? What I felt at the time is irrelevant because I was so horrifically damaged and far too young to be experiencing those adult emotions. I should not have been put in that situation by an adult and expected to understand or reciprocate adult emotions. If I felt a sort of love, than it was misguided and was established by someone who was attempting to manipulate me by playacting that I was an adult when I was not capable of understanding was transpiring between us. The best analogy I might be able to offer is putting a First Grader into a college Algebra class; there is a basic understanding that numbers are involved and are being manipulated, but not comprehending whatsoever the magnitude of what those numbers can do in various equations. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/86 "2010-09-19T23:12:08Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > > [@kanicbird](#): > > > > So the question I ask to **Fried Dough Ho** , regardless of what happened afterwords, did you feel love when he held you in his arms at the time? > > What I felt at the time is irrelevant because I was so horrifically damaged and far too young to be experiencing those adult emotions. I should not have been put in that situation by an adult and expected to understand or reciprocate adult emotions. > > If I felt a sort of love, than it was misguided and was established by someone who was attempting to manipulate me by playacting that I was an adult when I was not capable of understanding was transpiring between us. > > The best analogy I might be able to offer is putting a First Grader into a college Algebra class; there is a basic understanding that numbers are involved and are being manipulated, but not comprehending whatsoever the magnitude of what those numbers can do in various equations. Thank you for this, I was also put as a 1st grader into that same class, actually for me it was nursery to that, so I know what you are talking about. But Love is something basic to the human heart, a new born infant knows what love is, Love requires no schooling. And IMHO schooling works against us recognizing love. By your own words ‘If I felt a sort of love’, at least there was a uncertainty that you may have felt love. In the movie ‘The Abyss’ , there was method to do really deep ‘scuba’ diving by breathing liquid enriched with oxygen instead of air, the reason that was given is our bodies will remember from when we were in the womb how to breath liquid. I also this applies to love, our hearts know it, but our mind may attempt to explain it away. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/87 "2010-09-19T23:13:55Z")
I just want to also say thank you for being so open. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/88 "2010-09-20T01:29:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > [ > But Love is something basic to the human heart, a new born infant knows what love is, Love requires no schooling. And IMHO schooling works against us recognizing love. But like an Eskimo who has 27 words (or so) for snow, we only have one word for Love even though there are so many variables of what that Love is. I have a Love for a cat that is different than a Love for a parent, or a friend, or a lover. And having been involved in an obsessive Love (an entirely different relationship), I believe it is easy for people to mistake “Love” for physical attraction. Many broken marriages will attest to this as spouses cheat because of a “Love” that is experienced outside the bonds of matrimony. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/89 "2010-09-20T01:39:59Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > > [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > > > What I felt at the time is irrelevant because I was so horrifically damaged and far too young to be experiencing those adult emotions. I should not have been put in that situation by an adult and expected to understand or reciprocate adult emotions. > > > > If I felt a sort of love, than it was misguided and was established by someone who was attempting to manipulate me by playacting that I was an adult when I was not capable of understanding was transpiring between us. > > > > The best analogy I might be able to offer is putting a First Grader into a college Algebra class; there is a basic understanding that numbers are involved and are being manipulated, but not comprehending whatsoever the magnitude of what those numbers can do in various equations. > > Thank you for this, I was also put as a 1st grader into that same class, actually for me it was nursery to that, so I know what you are talking about. But Love is something basic to the human heart, a new born infant knows what love is, Love requires no schooling. And IMHO schooling works against us recognizing love. > > By your own words ‘If I felt a sort of love’, at least there was a uncertainty that you may have felt love. In the movie ‘The Abyss’ , there was method to do really deep ‘scuba’ diving by breathing liquid enriched with oxygen instead of air, the reason that was given is our bodies will remember from when we were in the womb how to breath liquid. I also this applies to love, our hearts know it, but our mind may attempt to explain it away. She was the victim, he was the victimizer. She was hurt by him, he hurt her. She was used by him, he used her. _She was raped by him, he(not society) raped her._ In no way whatsoever is he a hurt party in this story, and I would greatly appreciate it if you would drop this sick angle. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/90 "2010-09-20T05:50:58Z")
Rape is not love. Abuse is not love. People who rape or abuse are not looking for love, they are looking for gratification, and they are not concerned about the hurt they inflict on others. Rapists and abusers might try to justify their actions, but the bottom line is that they are getting off on raping and abusing others. **Fried Dough Ho** , what would you consider adequate punishment for rapists? Personally, if someone is repeatedly targeting children, I’d like to see the death penalty. I’d also like to see the death penalty for serial rapists. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/91 "2010-09-20T05:51:20Z")
**Czarcasm** , I don’t disagree with you, but FDH seems to be able to hold her own in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/92 "2010-09-20T06:35:38Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Rape is not love. Abuse is not love. **People who rape or abuse are not looking for love** , they are looking for gratification, and they are not concerned about the hurt they inflict on others. Rapists and abusers might try to justify their actions, but the bottom line is that they are getting off on raping and abusing others. > > **Fried Dough Ho** , what would you consider adequate punishment for rapists? Personally, if someone is repeatedly targeting children, I’d like to see the death penalty. I’d also like to see the death penalty for serial rapists. My own experience in criminal courts suggests that unfortunately the bolded is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/93 "2010-09-20T16:45:37Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > **Fried Dough Ho** , what would you consider adequate punishment for rapists? Personally, if someone is repeatedly targeting children, I’d like to see the death penalty. I’d also like to see the death penalty for serial rapists. I have really mixed feelings about corporate punishment in general. I am more into permanent maiming; castration so that the perp has to live with the memory of what he has done without the ability to ever have another erection or feel physical pleasure again. But then again, there are those sick people who are happy with their memories, so even that might not be sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/94 "2010-09-20T17:19:32Z")
Also (as it was too late to edit the last thought) ~ one of the reasons I have mixed feelings about corporal (not corporate!) punishment is that, as one who has attempted suicide, life may not be as precious to some as it is to others. For one in pain and struggling with issues, death is simply the end of that struggle, not the end of a joyful existence. I personally have little care if I live or die. I live now because there are people who expect things of me but if I were in an accident and I died this afternoon, than it would also be the end of years of pain. Of course I have had thriving success and joy in my life, but “life” itself is mostly irrelevant to me and I imagine an abuser has similar sentiments. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/95 "2010-09-20T19:51:20Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > > **Fried Dough Ho** , what would you consider adequate punishment for rapists? Personally, if someone is repeatedly targeting children, I’d like to see the death penalty. I’d also like to see the death penalty for serial rapists. > > I have really mixed feelings about corporate punishment in general. I am more into permanent maiming; castration so that the perp has to live with the memory of what he has done without the ability to ever have another erection or feel physical pleasure again. But then again, there are those sick people who are happy with their memories, so even that might not be sufficient. not to be a dick, I think you mean you have mixed feelings about _capital_ punishment, though you seem to advocate some types of _corporal_ punishment. [insert joke about desk job being _corporate_ punishment] ETA: it appears as though you’ve spotted that you made an error, but, again, your problem seems to be with capital, not corporal, punishment. “Permanent maiming” is most definitely corporal punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/96 "2010-09-20T21:20:22Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > ETA: it appears as though you’ve spotted that you made an error, but, again, your problem seems to be with capital, not corporal, punishment. “Permanent maiming” is most definitely corporal punishment. You are right - I was vernarcularly-challenged… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/97 "2010-09-20T21:53:14Z")
Thank you so much for starting this thread, **Fried Dough Ho**. As part of your own healing process, did you feel that forgiving those who had attacked you was important? I was assaulted in high school and then later by an ex and one thing I’ve found in my own case is that there’s a big struggle between “I want to forget about it/I have to stay angry so I know it wasn’t okay.” My therapist really pushed the forgiveness angle as part of closure, and I kind of resented him for it. I always wondered if that really worked for other people, if it was a gender/orientation issue, or if he was just going off some ill-advised script. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/98 "2010-09-20T23:45:02Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > > **Fried Dough Ho** , what would you consider adequate punishment for rapists? Personally, if someone is repeatedly targeting children, I’d like to see the death penalty. I’d also like to see the death penalty for serial rapists. > > I have really mixed feelings about corporate punishment in general. I am more into permanent maiming; castration so that the perp has to live with the memory of what he has done without the ability to ever have another erection or feel physical pleasure again. But then again, there are those sick people who are happy with their memories, so even that might not be sufficient. > [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > Also (as it was too late to edit the last thought) ~ one of the reasons I have mixed feelings about corporal (not corporate!) punishment is that, as one who has attempted suicide, life may not be as precious to some as it is to others. > > For one in pain and struggling with issues, death is simply the end of that struggle, not the end of a joyful existence. I personally have little care if I live or die. I live now because there are people who expect things of me but if I were in an accident and I died this afternoon, than it would also be the end of years of pain. Of course I have had thriving success and joy in my life, but “life” itself is mostly irrelevant to me and I imagine an abuser has similar sentiments. Castration (of male rapists/abusers) is not enough. It’s still possible to get an erection (with or without meds) and it’s still possible to rape with an object or otherwise abuse a victim. At the VERY least, I’d advocate life without the possibility of parole. I don’t view the death penalty as punishment as much as I regard it as a way of weeding out the people who can’t be fixed, or who are unlikely to be fixed. Rapists enjoy raping. They enjoy forcing someone to have sex, whether it is by physical force, emotional force, or simply by finding or making an intoxicated target. Psychopaths can’t be fixed. Perhaps they can be taught to obey the law, but they simply don’t have the capacity to feel empathy. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/99 "2010-09-21T01:09:42Z")
> [@Peeta\_Mellark](#): > > Thank you so much for starting this thread, **Fried Dough Ho**. > > As part of your own healing process, did you feel that forgiving those who had attacked you was important? I was assaulted in high school and then later by an ex and one thing I’ve found in my own case is that there’s a big struggle between “I want to forget about it/I have to stay angry so I know it wasn’t okay.” My therapist really pushed the forgiveness angle as part of closure, and I kind of resented him for it. I always wondered if that really worked for other people, if it was a gender/orientation issue, or if he was just going off some ill-advised script. Thank you, Peeta. No, I have never forgiven my assailants. Ever. Just like I have never been able to forgive my ExHusband for lying to me about his homosexuality or my last Boyfriend for lying to me about his proclivity for Central American prostitutes. I am not a Christian and that sort of ethic does not exist within me. Fortunately, none of my therapists ever suggested I forgive but have taught me the techniques to deal with the feelings of degradation and worthlessness which juxtapose my feelings of being worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060/100 "2010-09-21T04:43:39Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. > > > > ``` > > Stride: > > > > ``` > > > > People selected as victims had an exaggerated stride: either abnormally short or long. They dragged, shuffled or lifted their feet unnaturally as they walked. Non-victims, on the other hand, tended to have a smooth, natural gate. They stepped in a heel-to-toe fashion. > > > > 1. > > > > ``` > > Rate: > > > > ``` > > > > Victims tend to walk at a different rate than non-victims. Usually, they walk slower than the flow of pedestrian traffic. Their movement lacks a sense of deliberateness or purpose. However, an unnaturally rapid pace can project nervousness or fear. > > > > 1. > > > > ``` > > Fluidity: > > > > ``` > > > > Researchers noted awkwardness in a victim’s body movement. Jerkiness, raising and lowering one’s center of gravity or wavering from side to side as they moved became apparent in the victims analyzed. This was contrasted with smoother, more coordinated movement of the non-victims. > > > > 1. > > > > ``` > > Wholeness: > > > > ``` > > > > Victims lacked “wholeness” in their body movement. They swung their arms as if they were detached and independent from the rest of their body. Non-victims moved their body from their “center” as a coordinated whole implying strength, balance and confidence. > > > > 1. > > > > ``` > > Posture and Gaze: > > > > ``` > > > > A slumped posture is indicative of weakness or submissiveness. A downward gaze implies preoccupation and being unaware of one’s surroundings. Also, someone reluctant to establish eye contact can be perceived as submissive. These traits imply an ideal target for a predator. Jesus. If I only had this study before I started middle school. I used to do pretty much everything described in the quote. **FDH** , during the aftermath of your two incidents, do you remember what made you start feeling better? Were there small moments of happiness during the dark times, or was it all sadness? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-rape-victim/554060.md?page=6)