# Ask the Self-Proclaimed Nice Guy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 10, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617 "2012-12-10T16:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/41 "2012-12-11T02:48:23Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > I’m trying to come at this from a different perspective that hopefully we can all benefit from. Oh ghod. Never say that. You can _want_ it, but never _say_ it. It makes grumps out of neutral readers, and trolls out of grumps. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/42 "2012-12-11T14:18:17Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Upon what basis would you say you are charming? > > Your luck with the ladies would suggest otherwise. Well my friends and family seem to like keeping me around. I can usually make them laugh. In fact, I’m like that with most everyone I come across except girls I’m interested in. I have a hard time coming out of my shell, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/43 "2012-12-11T14:33:10Z")
> [@taskmgr.exe](#): > > Your stealth bashing is so powerful 😃 I really didn’t mean to stealth bash. I was just wondering WHY the OP thought of himself as a “Nice Guy”. What qualities, traits, etc., brought him to that conclusion? I also think it would be better if the OP dropped this descriptor. If he is confident in himself, that’s a good start. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/44 "2012-12-11T14:38:24Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > I’m like that with most everyone I come across except girls I’m interested in. You’re too scared of women. They hate that. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/45 "2012-12-11T14:42:35Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Well my friends and family seem to like keeping me around. I can usually make them laugh. In fact, I’m like that with most everyone I come across except girls I’m interested in. I have a hard time coming out of my shell, sometimes. Ah, I get it. I see young me in you. I used to call myself a ‘nice guy’ years and years ago. In reality I wasn’t getting laid because I was a pussy and couldn’t close the deal when the opportunity was wide open. I convinced myself that I was being nice in order to justify my insecurity. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/46 "2012-12-11T18:14:14Z")
Do you feel that you’re entitled to consideration as romantic partner material when you’re nice to a lady? ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/47 "2012-12-11T18:31:58Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Ah, I get it. I see young me in you. > > I used to call myself a ‘nice guy’ years and years ago. In reality I wasn’t getting laid because I was a pussy and couldn’t close the deal when the opportunity was wide open. > > I convinced myself that I was being nice in order to justify my insecurity. Hear, hear! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/48 "2012-12-11T18:40:41Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > lol Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/49 "2012-12-11T18:58:48Z")
An observation, to which the OP may or may not be able to relate: IME, the “nice-guys” who view the dudes who actually have girlfriends as assholes (I would be so much better for her than he is!) seem to confuse confidence and testicular fortitude with assholery. A nice guy lets me abuse him and walk all over him and shake him down for every penny he’s worth. A confident guy sets boundaries and expects me to respect his just as much as he respects mine. So let’s say there’s Girl A. She’s friends with Guy Y and Guy Z. Both guys want to date her. With Guy Y, she puts up a fuss about everything and whines and manipulates her way into, well, getting her way about everything. Guy Y capitulates to every petty demand because he thinks he’s earning “get laid” points and if he does enough little favors and caters to enough of her expectations, he’ll get her pants off. Guy Z calls her on her bullshit, doesn’t let her pressure him into spending money he can’t afford or doing things he’s not interested in (say… shoe shopping) that should could do by herself or with a girlfriend. Yet Guy Z still treats her with respect; he doesn’t call her names, he doesn’t treat her like she’s stupid, he values her opinion and her contribution to their relationship and she values him in the same way because they are honest with each other. Mutual honesty builds trust and respect. This requires communication, which also means you have to step outside yourself once in a while, put your own shit aside, and _listen_ to the other person. “Nice” guys are so afraid of rejection that they will not communicate openly. If they are unhappy about a situation, they’ll shut up and put up with it because they are so afraid they will piss off Girl A that she won’t fuck them. This backfires, because she sees that he’s a spineless pussy who won’t stand up to her. While it might be fun to shake him down for dinner and movie tickets and such, for a while, after a bit, that becomes tedious. The two are not being real with each other, so mutual trust and respect are never established. In the end, she chooses to be with Guy Z because he won’t put up with her crap. Guy Y views this as “Guy Z treats her like shit,” when the reality is, treating women like helpless delicate flowers whose every whim and demand must be immediately catered to is not really any more respectful than just telling her to “shut up you stupid cow” every time she opens her mouth. Also, assuming that you know better than she which guy is right for her is infantilizing and diminishing which = very disrespectful. You wanna get laid, OP? Start by trying open, honest two-way communication to establish mutual trust and respect. Think about what those words mean to you and what _you_ bring to the table. “I treat her like a queen,” does not suffice, if that means you bow and scrape and cater to her every whim. She doesn’t need to be spoiled like a child. If it means you work to establish trust, respect, and communication and you value her for her great sense of humor, her calm in a crisis, or her awesome chocolate chip cookies, then by all means, treat her like a queen. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/50 "2012-12-11T19:08:02Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > A nice guy lets me abuse him and walk all over him and shake him down for every penny he’s worth. How in the world would you find this out without being a jerk yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/51 "2012-12-11T19:18:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How in the world would you find this out without being a jerk yourself? I didn’t. I am a reformed jerk. I still have my moments, but at least now I recognize when I’m being a jerk and will back up and apologize and stop being jerky. Reforming from jerkhood requires self-examination and willingness to change behavior, and perserverance to make that behavior change consistent, so it sticks. I am not perfect and still make mistakes sometimes, but in general, I approach men/dating in a completely different way than I did in my 20s. I grew up and stopped acting like a jerk. And guess what? I get a lot more action now that I’ve learned all about this newfangled “men are people with feelings too” thing. 😉 Added bonus: Because I am treating people with much more compassion and respect, I am treated with much more compassion and respect. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/52 "2012-12-11T19:19:52Z")
Stop being so nice. If 1 is a simpering Care Bear and 10 is a world-class dickhead, aim for a 3 or 4. It’s also OK to let the needle spike up to 7 or 8 sometimes if you don’t let it stick there. Also, don’t listen to any of the advice given here. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/53 "2012-12-11T19:29:45Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I didn’t. I am a reformed jerk. I still have my moments, but at least now I recognize when I’m being a jerk and will back up and apologize and stop being jerky. Reforming from jerkhood requires self-examination and willingness to change behavior, and perserverance to make that behavior change consistent, so it sticks. I am not perfect and still make mistakes sometimes, but in general, I approach men/dating in a completely different way than I did in my 20s. I grew up and stopped acting like a jerk. > > And guess what? I get a lot more action now that I’ve learned all about this newfangled “men are people with feelings too” thing. 😉 Added bonus: Because I am treating people with much more compassion and respect, I am treated with much more compassion and respect. Got it. Thanks for explaining. When I read your original post, I thought you were making a hypothetical point, but your insight is more valuable for where it comes from. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/54 "2012-12-11T20:48:16Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > Do you feel that you’re entitled to consideration as romantic partner material when you’re nice to a lady? Not at all. I fully understand that I have to be willing to make moves to make it happen. And in a lot of circumstances I haven’t. I hold myself completely responsible. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617/55 "2012-12-11T20:50:34Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > lol Great username/post. Yeah, I probably won’t share this story so easily anymore. See, learned something already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-self-proclaimed-nice-guy/643617.md?page=2)