# Ask the Seminary Student **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2006, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825 "2006-02-10T05:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/21 "2006-02-11T16:37:11Z")
> [@Mines Mystique](#): > > I think, just from a brief perusal of the website, that their is a lot of stuff I agree with that CoH is doing. Things like focusing more on social justice issues, being inclusive, the clergy equipping and training the so-called lay people to minister to their friends and family. There is also a lot of stuff I disagree with. Mostly the views on homosexuality. As I stated above, I feel and believe that homosexuality, as a lifestyle, is a sin, plain and simple. Now, that I believe this lifestyle is a sin does not mean that I will condemn people that live a homosexual lifestyle, just as I will not condemn someone who is a drug addict or a murderer. That is not my place. My place is to lead them to Christ, and as one of my professors would say, be Jesus with skin on. > > That being said, it is possible to change a lifestyle. Look at all the people who have kicked drug and alchohol habits, which was a way of life for them. I don’t think it is possible on our own, but only through the grace of God and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. Can you tell me about your decision to lead a heterosexual “lifestyle” rather than a homosexual one? Is your sexuality as comparable to “drug and alchohol habits” as you think mine is? And murder? Come on. Is this the language Jesus would use? ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/22 "2006-02-11T17:07:18Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A little research shows that Denver Seminary is essentially a conservative fundamentalist institution with some rather questionable positions on issues like ID/Creationism and homosexuality. What positions are not questionable? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/23 "2006-02-11T17:19:06Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > What positions are not questionable? Wel for example, a position in facor of evolutionary theory and common descent is not the least bit questionable. Neither is a position that homosexuality is not a disorder and that it does not require treatment. When I said that alternate positions to these were “questionable,” I was being kind. What they actually are is WRONG. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/24 "2006-02-11T17:33:34Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Wel for example, a position in facor of evolutionary theory and common descent is not the least bit questionable. Neither is a position that homosexuality is not a disorder and that it does not require treatment. When I said that alternate positions to these were “questionable,” I was being kind. What they actually are is WRONG. Not that I agree with any of those things you listed… …but you should add a huge IMHO after that comment. Assuming you hold the key to God’s (or any absolute morality’s) opinion on controversial topics is the height of arrogance. Over the course of my lifetime, and especially recently, I have found myself chalenging my thoughts on some closely held beliefs. I hope you have left yourself enough room to grow as well. And I would like to hear more about the Law of Evolution, and the Law of Natural Selection… ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/25 "2006-02-11T17:42:09Z")
What do you do when you have doubts about your faith? What about transgendered people - is it a sin? What is your favorite Bible passage? What’s your favorite hymn? If I asked you to try to convert me, what would you do and say? What if I told you I was gay and I would never see it as a sin? ---
**Author:** ![Mines\_Mystique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mines\_Mystique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mines_Mystique)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/26 "2006-02-11T18:10:10Z")
> [@ThePCapeman](#): > > Can you tell me about your decision to lead a heterosexual “lifestyle” rather than a homosexual one? Is your sexuality as comparable to “drug and alchohol habits” as you think mine is? And murder? Come on. Is this the language Jesus would use? I think the deeper issue involved in any thing that is declared a sin, especially things specifically addressed in the Bible, is that it is a perversion of the way humans were created by God. We were created male & female, and the natural order of things is for humans to have heterosexual relationships. This is why I can say that drinking alcohol is not a sin, unless it masters you and you are subservient to it. This is also why there was no conscious decision for me to pursue a heterosexual lifestyle. It was natural, so there did not need to be a conscious decision. In my admittedly limited experience with homosexual people, there was a time, whether early or late in life, to pursue a homosexual lifestyle. I don’t know if this is true in your case. As far as my sexuality being comparable to murder & drugs, that is an entirely valid comparison. If I, in my sexuality, pursue an affair, or engage in some other sort of sexual immorality, such as incest or what have you, that act is open for comparison to murder, drug abuse, or theft. In my understanding, homosexual acts are another type of sexual immorality to be avoided as a sin. This is quite clear in the Bible. As for Jesus, I won’t presume to put words in his mouth, but he was not the nice guy everyone makes him out to be. He was more than willing to confront someone about their lifestyle, although he did not do it with harshness or condemnation, or hellfire & brimstone. As an example, check out the encounter with the woman at the well in John 4. He did not hesitate to speak the truth into her life, but he did it in love, not in a condemning way. That is what I seek to emulate, speaking the truth in love. Mines Mystique ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/27 "2006-02-11T18:10:46Z")
The following question is meant only to pick your brain and not to challenge your beliefs or interpretations in any way: What do you know of the pesher technique for reading scripture? ---
**Author:** ![Mines\_Mystique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mines\_Mystique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mines_Mystique)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/28 "2006-02-11T18:23:25Z")
> [@cthiax](#): > > What do you do when you have doubts about your faith? When I have doubts, I talk it out with people, especially the youth pastor I work with, my fiancee’s pastor, and basically the people who are close to me. > [@cthiaz](#): > > What about transgendered people - is it a sin? Yes, in the same way that homosexuality is a sin. It is a perversion of God’s creation and a denial of His qualities to say that he made a mistake in the way he created someone. > [@cthiaz](#): > > What is your favorite Bible passage? What’s your favorite hymn? My favorite bible passage is Proverbs 3:5-6, and my favorite hymn is a toss-up between The Solid Rock, Be Thou My Vision, and In Christ Alone. > [@cthiaz](#): > > If I asked you to try to convert me, what would you do and say? What if I told you I was gay and I would never see it as a sin? If you asked me to try and convert you, I would start by asking you questions about your belief. These questions would be thinks like do you believe that God is who he says he is in the Bible? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God’s son and was sent as a substitution for us to take away our sin that we could never take away on our own? Then I would welcome you into the faith and start discipling you. Now, if you said you were gay and would never see it as a sin, I would tell you my view on the subject, and especially what the bible says, but then, unless you brought it up and wanted to discuss it, I would drop the subject. I would also tell you that becoming a follower of The Way is more than just a profession of faith, it is a change of lifestyle. There is a regeneration involved that is performed by the Holy Spirit. I would still ask the same questions, but I would say that unless there is evident regeneration of your heart and attitudes, that it was nothing more than empty words. Mines Mystique ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/29 "2006-02-11T18:32:24Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Not that I agree with any of those things you listed… > > …but you should add a huge IMHO after that comment. Assuming you hold the key to God’s (or any absolute morality’s) opinion on controversial topics is the height of arrogance. I haven’t expressed any moral opinions. I’ve just staed objective facts. > [@](#): > > Over the course of my lifetime, and especially recently, I have found myself chalenging my thoughts on some closely held beliefs. I hope you have left yourself enough room to grow as well. I haven’t expressed any personal beliefs only objective facts. > [@](#): > > And I would like to hear more about the Law of Evolution, and the Law of Natural Selection… There is no such thing as either. The fact that you would ask the question this way shows that you don’t know what the word “law” actually means in science. You probably thing that if Evolution was a proven fact it would be called a law instead of a theory. If that’s the case, you are wrong. No amount of proof can turn a theory into a law. In science, the word “theory” does not mean “something that would become a law if it was proven.” It does not even mean “unproven.” A theory is an _explanation_ for a phenomenon or set of phenomena which is _confirmned by evidence_. A law is an observed characterstic of the universe which never changes. To put it more simply, a law is a WHAT and a theory is a WHY. A “why” can never become a “what.” The theory of evolution is a _proven_ explanation as to how new species originate. It is not remotely “questionable.” It is not an opinion. It’s proven fact. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/30 "2006-02-11T18:34:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I haven’t expressed any moral opinions. I’ve just staed objective facts. > > I haven’t expressed any personal beliefs only objective facts. > > There is no such thing as either. The fact that you would ask the question this way shows that you don’t know what the word “law” actually means in science. You probably thing that if Evolution was a proven fact it would be called a law instead of a theory. If that’s the case, you are wrong. No amount of proof can turn a theory into a law. In science, the word “theory” does not mean “something that would become a law if it was proven.” It does not even mean “unproven.” A theory is an _explanation_ for a phenomenon or set of phenomena which is _confirmned by evidence_. A law is an observed characterstic of the universe which never changes. To put it more simply, a law is a WHAT and a theory is a WHY. A “why” can never become a “what.” > > The theory of evolution is a _proven_ explanation as to how new species originate. It is not remotely “questionable.” It is not an opinion. It’s proven fact. OK. I forget how smart you are. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/31 "2006-02-11T18:57:11Z")
> [@Mines Mystique](#): > > When I have doubts, I talk it out with people, especially the youth pastor I work with, my fiancee’s pastor, and basically the people who are close to me. What kinds of doubts do you have? What do they say when you go to them? > [@](#): > > Yes, in the same way that homosexuality is a sin. It is a perversion of God’s creation and a denial of His qualities to say that he made a mistake in the way he created someone. So someone who uses hearing aids, or someone who is born with no limbs in a wheelchair, those people are perverting God’s creation? > [@](#): > > My favorite bible passage is Proverbs 3:5-6, and my favorite hymn is a toss-up between The Solid Rock, Be Thou My Vision, and In Christ Alone. Sorry, which Bible do you use? Do you also like any contemporary Christian music? > [@](#): > > If you asked me to try and convert you, I would start by asking you questions about your belief. These questions would be thinks like do you believe that God is who he says he is in the Bible? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God’s son and was sent as a substitution for us to take away our sin that we could never take away on our own? Then I would welcome you into the faith and start discipling you. Let’s say I did say yes to these questions. > [@](#): > > Now, if you said you were gay and would never see it as a sin, I would tell you my view on the subject, and especially what the bible says, but then, unless you brought it up and wanted to discuss it, I would drop the subject. I would also tell you that becoming a follower of The Way is more than just a profession of faith, it is a change of lifestyle. There is a regeneration involved that is performed by the Holy Spirit. I would still ask the same questions, but I would say that unless there is evident regeneration of your heart and attitudes, that it was nothing more than empty words. Hmm, okay. What if I said “My ‘lifestyle’ is celibate, but I am definitely gay.” Is my profession of faith genuine then? What if I had a partner of many years, and aside from living with him as if our marriage was blessed by God, I lived a completely Christian life? Would my faith be true then? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/32 "2006-02-11T19:22:24Z")
This is turning into a fairly intense discussion of religion, though I know that was not the intention of the OP. Moved from IMHO to GD. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/33 "2006-02-11T19:31:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > This is turning into a fairly intense discussion of religion, though I know that was not the intention of the OP. > > Moved from IMHO to GD. Then why not guide it back on the tracks by instructing people to stay to the OPs original intent of asking questions of a student, and ask people to open their own debates on GLTs in the church in their own thread if they cannot honor the OPs intent? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/34 "2006-02-11T20:40:59Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Then why not guide it back on the tracks by instructing people to stay to the OPs original intent of asking questions of a student, and ask people to open their own debates on GLTs in the church in their own thread if they cannot honor the OPs intent? Because there is simply no way to keep it on track. Almost any question asked of a seminary student will involve religion. I understand that it was not the OP’s intent to start a religious debate, but given his circumstances and willingness to discuss his beliefs, I don’t see any way to avoid one. Limiting questions to those likely not to start religious discussion would not leave much of a thread. So I moved it. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/35 "2006-02-11T21:10:17Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Then why not guide it back on the tracks by instructing people to stay to the OPs original intent of asking questions of a student, and ask people to open their own debates on GLTs in the church in their own thread if they cannot honor the OPs intent? If the OP wants to limit the scope to only specific kinds of questions, I’ll be happy to honor a request from him along those lines. However, he certainly hasn’t shown any sign of being unhappy with the way it’s going that I’ve seen. My questions, at least, are not at all intended to start a debate, however inflammatory the general topic is. I just want to know the answers. I’m curious how the mind of a young person in seminary works on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/36 "2006-02-11T21:10:48Z")
to build on **cthiax** ’s question… > [@Mines Mystique](#): > > Yes, in the same way that homosexuality is a sin. It is a perversion of God’s creation and a denial of His qualities to say that he made a mistake in the way he created someone. So, I’ve had asthma since I was a little kid. If God cannot make “mistake[s] in the way he created” me, that leads to the following (so far as I see it): God created me with asthma OR he created me healthy and then went out for coffee and while he was gone, some other force was allowed to mess my body up and give me asthma. If God created me with asthma, then I’m rather irked at him, and confused, since isn’t all pain and suffering in this world supposed to be humanity’s fault for the original sin? And if God didn’t give me asthma, but didn’t _prevent_ me from getting asthma either, isn’t that a rather harsh judgement for a toddler? Do you believe the Earth is 6000 years old? How do you reconcile the contradictions that different versions/ translations of the Bible bring up (that then lead to doctrinal differences)? Do you believe that there is one version that is correct, while the others are not? How is this so? What do you see yourself doing in ten years? What do you believe about millenarian movements/ ideology? ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/37 "2006-02-11T21:44:36Z")
> [@Mines Mystique](#): > > I think the deeper issue involved in any thing that is declared a sin, especially things specifically addressed in the Bible, is that it is a perversion of the way humans were created by God. We were created male & female, and the natural order of things is for humans to have heterosexual relationships. This is why I can say that drinking alcohol is not a sin, unless it masters you and you are subservient to it. > > This is also why there was no conscious decision for me to pursue a heterosexual lifestyle. It was natural, so there did not need to be a conscious decision. In my admittedly limited experience with homosexual people, there was a time, whether early or late in life, to pursue a homosexual lifestyle. I don’t know if this is true in your case. > > As far as my sexuality being comparable to murder & drugs, that is an entirely valid comparison. If I, in my sexuality, pursue an affair, or engage in some other sort of sexual immorality, such as incest or what have you, that act is open for comparison to murder, drug abuse, or theft. In my understanding, homosexual acts are another type of sexual immorality to be avoided as a sin. This is quite clear in the Bible. > > As for Jesus, I won’t presume to put words in his mouth, but he was not the nice guy everyone makes him out to be. He was more than willing to confront someone about their lifestyle, although he did not do it with harshness or condemnation, or hellfire & brimstone. As an example, check out the encounter with the woman at the well in John 4. He did not hesitate to speak the truth into her life, but he did it in love, not in a condemning way. That is what I seek to emulate, speaking the truth in love. > > Mines Mystique Did you have such beliefs before you entered your seminary? Does the seminary reinforce or challenge these beliefs? Was their position on such things part of why you chose them? Thank you for being so willing to share your beliefs and answer so many questions. Obviously there are many here who will find some of your positions controversial and will seek to challenge you on them. I understand that they are part of your faith and were posted (originally) in a place for opinion. Now that they’ve been moved to an arena of rational debate, do you feel it appropriate to continue discussing them here? ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/38 "2006-02-11T22:41:25Z")
I don’t agree with **Mines** theology, but I’m impressed by the candidness and thoughtfulness of his responses. I think it’s less about “ask the seminary student,” and more, “ask the fundamentalist,” and it’s good to see him go against stereotype and prove a fundamentalist isn’t necessarily a strident ninny or “bible thumper.” The Theology dept. at my alma mater was big on Christian ethics. I still consider those Christian ethics to be the cornerstone of my character and beliefs, even if I’ve wandered off from the church. Are those a big role at your seminary, and what’s the nature of the ethics you consider the cornerstone of your character? ---
**Author:** ![Mines\_Mystique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mines\_Mystique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mines_Mystique)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/39 "2006-02-11T22:43:34Z")
> [@cthiax](#): > > So someone who uses hearing aids, or someone who is born with no limbs in a wheelchair, those people are perverting God’s creation? In the case of the transgender person, from my understanding, most of them feel they were born the wrong gender and so take steps to correct what they feel was a mistake. That being said, I think there are deeper psychological reasons related to their experience growing up that have an influence more than them having recieved a brain that functions the opposite of their body’s gender. As far as the examples you gave, I think that I am a perversion of God’s creation. God created the world perfect, and we humans have gone and f-ed it up. Because of this, things like what you are talking about happen, people are born deaf, or blind, or dumb, or a combination thereof. Also, while this might sound slightly paradoxical, while God desires a relationship with us and so sent his son to save us, he lets us suffer the consequences of our decisions, and the decisions of those that came before us, such as Adam and Eve. The closest analogy I can think of would be a parent with a child. If you don’t let the child screw up and suffer the consequences of their actions, especially as they get older, they don’t learn anything. I feel this is how God treats us. I think he also wants us to realize that without him, we really can’t accomplish much. So when the bad stuff happens, I as a Christian need to learn to rely on God’s power and strength to help me out. > [@aurelian](#): > > Do you believe the Earth is 6000 years old? I don’t know. I think this is one of the most misguided debates that goes on today. Despite what I said earlier in the thread, on second thought, I’m not entirely sure about the literal seven days thing. I do know that writers in the ancient past were not entirely concerned with historical accuracy, as well as the fact that Moses was not there when the earth was created. This would lead me to believe that it is symbolic of how God created the earth. But, as they say, more investigation is needed. In my view, all I really need to believe is that God did create the earth. How he did it is up to him. I think the people that get so caught up in this debate, at least on the Christian/Creationist side of it, have lost sight of the fact that it doesn’t matter one whit to a person’s salvation if they believe Young earth, old earth, or Intelligent design. On the flip side, it hardly makes sense, at least to me, if someone believes what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, but then denies what it says in Genesis, at least about God creating the earth. How can you take what the Bible says in the NT about Jesus Christ as truth and ignore what it says in Genesis? > [@aurelian](#): > > How do you reconcile the contradictions that different versions/ translations of the Bible bring up (that then lead to doctrinal differences)? Do you believe that there is one version that is correct, while the others are not? How is this so? I think the one correct version is the original Greek, even before the medieval scholars got to it and added things like accents and punctuation to it. As far as English translations, I don’t know enough Greek yet to check out the actual translations, but I feel that the TNIV (Today’s New International Version) is a fairly accurate translation, and is the one I read most often. I do refer to other versions as needed, especially when I am preparing a sermon or talk. > [@aurelian](#): > > What do you see yourself doing in ten years? In ten years, I see myself raising a family, and minstering as the youth, and maybe worship, pastor at an Evangelical Covenant church, with my soon-to-be wife. > [@aurelian](#): > > What do you believe about millenarian movements/ ideology? First off, I need to say that I think that Left Behind is a crock. While it is good fiction, that’s all it is. That being said, I haven’t done enough research to be sure, but I tend towards the amillenial mindset. If you don’t know, this is a view that holds that there will not be a millenium, or tribulation, or rapture. I think that Jesus Christ will just come back and redeem the earth and everything and everyone in it, and we’ll all live happily ever after. I also think the whole pre/post/mid/no-trib debate is another one of those that is misguided. All that people really need to know and believe about the book of Revelation is that in the end, God wins. Mines Mystique ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825/40 "2006-02-11T23:00:20Z")
> [@Mines Mystique](#): > > On the flip side, it hardly makes sense, at least to me, if someone believes what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, but then denies what it says in Genesis, at least about God creating the earth. How can you take what the Bible says in the NT about Jesus Christ as truth and ignore what it says in Genesis? You might want to check out Augustine of Hippo’s [_de Genesis_](http://www.holycross.edu/departments/religiousstudies/alaffey/Augustine-Genesis.htm), where, in paragraph 39, found in section 19 he notes: > [@](#): > > Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non-sense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although “they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-seminary-student/343825.md?page=3)