Show me the requirement for the operator of a multi-engine experimental to hold a multi-engine rating when not specifically set forth by the aircraft’s airworthiness certificate. No need for anything else but the relevant FAR, please.
While you’re at it, please cite the regulation that exempts just the builder of a multi-engine experimental from your “required” multi-engine rating.
No need for a long reply or interpretation or calling me “dear” or whatever. Just a nice, short, sweet link to the FAR that backs up your statement. That’s all I need. Should be a piece of cake.
It’s a good thing our Designated Examiner didn’t hear you say that.
The rudder is not there to make the turns neat. It is there to counter adverse yaw, thereby keeping the airplane coordinated.
A plane is turned with a combination of aileron, rudder, and elevator. If you attempt to turn without using the rudder, the plane will normally enter a slip. That’s poor technique, but not neccesarily dangerous, as long as the plane isn’t permitted to stall. Indeed there are a few times when we would purposely slip the airplane (crosswind landings, rapid altitude loss, or no flaps available).
However, if the plane is permitted to stall in this uncoordinated condition it will enter a spin. The pilots here should remember the recipe for a spin is: stall + yaw.
The rudder is probably the single most important flight control for this reason. Many of the stall/spin accidents you read about occur because lots of pilot don’t keep the airplane coordinated. I see this all the time when I give flight reviews, and it’s caused me to make a big emphasis on coordination in training.
If I had to lose all my primary flight controls but one, I’d keep the rudder. I can turn without ailerons, I can control altitude without the elevator, and I’ll probably walk away from it. But lose the rudder and you’re up the creek.
I am deathly afraid of flying. Anyway you know that I can get rid of that fear? If I was the only one left on a plane and had to get in the cockpit and take control and land the plane by myself, do you think I could safely land a plane with instructions by someone, considering my fear and no knowledge whatsoever of airplanes? I would like to think that someone could talk me down, but I also have major doubts. I’d be afraid to pull it off autopilot.
Berkut, I didn’t open this thread to cause an argument. Repeating your side of a debate in larger font is not going to make me change my mind. I stated my side, which was based on what three FSDO’s do in enforcing the regulations. Right, wrong, or indifferent, if you’re within their jursidiction that’s how they enforce the rules. If you don’t like it, or disagree, you may quote yourself in a larger font at them. If you wish to debate the FAR’s, let’s do so in a different thread.
And I did so well with the angle of attack explanation…
You are correct, Mach, and in my attempt to simply an explanation (because I wanted to avoid a lengthy explanation) I botched it. I should have said “coordinated” instead of neat.
I’ve been thinking about this one, and while I don’t know for sure, I’d suspect it would be some form of heart disease or diabetes, just because those diseases are relatively common in our society, particularly as we age.
I expect the recent rise in popularity in things like SSRI’s is also nailing a few people, including those who take them for reasons other than depression.
However, for a number of disorders there are ways to get a medical approved (eventually) which is why we have a couple local pilots who are post-heart attack or bypass surgery, and another one who is Type II diabetic still flying. These individuals do have to keep their medical problem under strict control, however, and may be asked to visit the flight doc more often than they would otherwise.
Hmmm… I didn’t find moving to the Pipers difficult, although, of course, the transition training was well worth the time. It’s more the fuel system is in a different location than anything else, and you can only draw from one tank at a time. What got me was the landing flare - low-wings have more ground effect, and float with the least excess speed. So basically, the transition exposed that I wasn’t quite as precise with airspeed during landings as I should be, so really it helped clean up that bad habit.
I like the manual flaps of the Pipers better than the post-1963 Cessnas, but there are other things I like better about the Cessnas, like two doors. Which just goes to prove there’s no such thing as an ideal airplane for all things.
Yes, it happens but it’s not universal. I’ve been to plenty of airports where the desk is run by young men or old folks.
Still, female seems most common, with a slight bias towards young. That’s in part because at a small airport the job doesn’t pay a whole lot, and may require evening and weekend hours. The evening and weekend hours appeal to college students, who are in school during regular business hours, and college students tend to be young. Monday through Friday 9-5 you’re more likely to see older individuals, not uncommonly retired women looking for a little extra cash.
But, as I said, this is in general. Gary airport, for instance, has men behind their general aviation desk. At really small airports there isn’t a designated person for this - if someone’s in the office/shed they’ll answer phone and radio calls, but if the weather’s real nice they all go out flying. The bigger the airport the more likely it is to have full-time staff behind that desk, and I suspect the more likely it is they’ll have requirements beyond just good phone skills and a pleasent personality.
Yes, the flirting does happen. And the business about the airplanes having an effect… well, a C182 is the low end of the airplane ladder, like driving a beater car. Someone with a King Air or Beechjet, though, has money. And we all know money can act as an aphrodisiac. The girls are also more likely to flirt with the guys flying corporate charter than the tow-plane pilots, but that’s a perception issue. The corporate guys have these spiffy uniforms and look good. The tow pilots wear raggedy jeans and t-shirts and may or may not have bothered to shave that morning (I’ve yet to see a female banner tow). The tow pilots might actually be making more money - the job is considerably higher risk than corporate flying, and not a lot of people are interested in doing it.
The Quicksilver is an ultralight. The RANS, Drifter, and RV-6 are all homebults, and the latter two taildraggers. Actually, the Drifter in this case started life as an ultralight trainer, but was later N-numbered as an experimental aircraft.
The rest are all fairly tame 2 or 4 seat general aviation airplanes, except for the Arrow and Mooney. I was working on my complex rating (that’s for things like retractable gear and adjustable props) when I had to take a hiatus from flying for financial reasons.
I’ve never owned an aircraft, so in some cases these were “borrowed”. The Drifter, for instance, was (and is) owned by a friend of mine, but at the time I was flying it I did not have a license so I couldn’t legally solo it. The RV-6 was an airplane I was admiring when a mutual friend introduced me to the pilot and he took me up. At that point I had a license, but not a taildragger rating so he was, understandably, not going to let me handle it on the ground. Fifty feet off the ground, though, he handed me the stick and didn’t take it back for an hour, until we were about to land. Again, the Mooney belongs to a friend of mine, so I’m in it frequently. I could land it in an emergency, but I’m not very comfortable flying it in anything but cruise.
Most of my experience is in the Cessnas and simple Pipers.
Actually, until a month before my checkride my GA experience hadn’t included a Piper at all - then someone broke the C150 I was going to take the test in, the other C150 was waiting for a new engine, and someone else had run the C172 into a hangar so it was waiting for a new wing. I had the choice of waiting months and months for the Cessnas to be repaired, or switching to a different airplane entirely.
After years of working on the license and all the interruptions I just couldn’t stand waiting. I transitioned into the Warrior.
So, I show up for my checkride with my little form all filled out and my written test results and my small crate of reference materials and my flight bag. The examiner starts looking over the form. He comes to “hours flown”. He gets a very strange look on his face.
“You’ve got all this time in C150s… but you brought a Warrior here?”
“Yep”
“You’ve never taken this Piper on a cross country?”
Personally, I used to use MS Flight Sim and an upstart called Fly! while I was training. It helped to “keep my head in the game,” as it were, but you simply can’t use the sim to duplicate the real thing. There’s not enough sensory input, like the G-force sensations or the peripheral vision. You can use them for learning and practicing IFR procedures (and on some, you can log the hours) but not too much else.
I’m not big into the combat sims, but when I was, I never really had any “moral qualms.”
Well, no one answer here, except, “it depends.” To date, I am not aware of any situation in which a passenger had to fly a commercial airliner because of a problem with the crew, and I’m not counting Flight 93 on Sept. 11.
Now a private airplane is a different story. In fact, I remember a situation where a guy was flying a family to some Christian convention but had a heart attack in flight. The father of the family took the controls, and with the help of a nearby instructor (and God, he said on the “Today” show) was able to land. The pilot, unfortunately didn’t make it to the hospital in time. The AOPA offers “pinch-hitter” classes for just such a situation.
Also, I remember a segment on the “Worst-Case Scenario” TV show in which they were able to coach an aerophobic woman to land a plane by herself. It is possible, and does happen, though probably not often.
Remember those time / speed / distance math problems in high school? This is where you can actually apply it. It’s also how pilots know when they are near an invisible airspace border.
There is more to VFR navigation then looking at the map and matching up landmarks. Unlike a car where you can just jump in and go, pilots have to plan out their trip in detail on the ground ahead of time. We’re taught to do it using pencil and calculator, but now the personal computer and Internet makes it much easier.
Basically you draw a line on the map and use a special ruler to get your ‘true’ compass heading to your destination. Then you add or subtract a ‘magnetic’ variation, also on the map, to the compass heading to get your ‘magnetic’ heading. Then a few hours before your flight, you get an aviation weather forecast (much more detailed) and computer a wind correction factor using a special slidewheel calculator. Using that factor you add or subtract some degrees from your heading so that your plane is ‘turned into the wind’ just enough so you won’t get pushed sideways and off course by the wind. Then you compute your airspeed (also adjusted for the wind) and fill out a navigation log with landmarks and the TIME it will take to get each one (10 minutes for example). Nowadays, I let the computer do it for me.
When you take off in the plane, start a timer and note the time on your navigation log (on your kneeboard). Then, by looking at your computed times, you can figure out when you should be at each landmark (milestone). There are other more sophisticated techniques like VOR radio beacons and GPS receiver, but this is the basic technique.
I don’t particularly like the home flight simulators - it doesn’t feel like flying.
I have, however, used them for planning purposes occassionally - the one we have allows you to plug in current weather by way of an internet connection so you can get some idea how your airplane will react to a crosswind at an airport (buildings, trees, and the landscape can affect things like turbulence), the layout of an airport, and some of the landmarks between where you start and where you stop. So they certainly have some use. And definitely they have a use in IFR training.
Simulated combat doesn’t bother me - it’s not real. Although I prefer games like Descent to MS flight simulator for entertainment purposes. Part of the fun of flight simulators is letting you do things you can’t or shouldn’t do in real life - like actually trying to land a C150 sideways across a wide runway, or flying between skyscrapers.
In my case, I got rid of my fear of flying by earning a pilot’s license.
Yes, that’s a little extreme. I should also point out that flying was something I always wanted to do, and my fear stemmed from one specific incident in a commercial jet that scared the bejeeus out of me. It was a pretty intense thing - the next time I tried to get on a commercial jet I threw up twice
I think the important thing here is to find out what sets off your fear. Is it the motion, is it making you sick? (There’s a fine line between fear and nausea, as the prior paragraphs points out) Then either more exposure to the sensation, or perhaps something for motion sickness, might be the ticket. Is it fear because you don’t know what’s going on? Then taking a “pinch-hitter” course, or a few flight lessons, or talking to pilots and asking questions might improve things. That also sometimes works for folks who have problems with not being in control - learning what goes into pilot training can be reassuring.
There are classes you can take that will desensitize you to the flight environment. A lot of it involves becoming more familar with the sounds and sensations, learning what goes on when, what’s normal even though it feels strange to you. The sophistication - and price - of these courses varies enormously.
I also like to tell people that fear of flying isn’t totally irrational. It is a strange environment to most people, and the fear is your body’s way of going on alert, reminding yourself that this is not the ordinary situation you find yourself in.
Fear is something pilots have sometimes and must learn to deal with. One of the best lessons I’ve taken from flying is how to deal with my fear, how to keep going even when I’m afraid and do what needs to be done. I certainly have been afraid from time to time, and I wouldn’t fly with a pilot who has never known fear. Fear - like pain - can be your friend at times, when it tells you something is wrong and needs to be taken care of immediately, or when it tells you that shouldn’t do something, like fly through a thunderstorm.
Yes. If it was an airplane like I fly you could. It’s been done multiple times by very frightened people who, despite their fear, avoided panic and did what needed to be done. The airplanes I fly are relatively docile and “forgiving” - a minor mistake doesn’t mean instant death. Something like a C172 is a primary trainer plane, on a certain level they are intended to be flown by people who don’t know what they’re doing - we call them flight students. Students come in too fast, too slow, they land somewhat sideways and scrape the treads off the tires on the landing gear, they literally bounce the airplane off the runway from time to time… in a situation like that you don’t have to make a perfect landing, just one YOU can walk away from. A single-engine airplane like that can take some ham-fist on the controls. A more complex single-engine with retractiable gear… well, you might collapse the gear if you land too hard, but even then, you yourself willl probably be OK. Inexperienced people have even landed small twin prop planes by being “talked down” although that’s starting to get really dicey - I doubt someone inexperienced could land a twin with just one working engine in most cases (the in line thrust group might be a different story, as long as your critical engine is the working one). Even a hard landing that causes damage to the airplane would be more like a bad car accident than what happens when a passenger jet slams into a cornfield at 200+ mph. No, it’s not something you’d want to experience, but you could survive it. The upshot of all this is, is that if you flew with a pilot like me and for some horrible reason I am no longer able to fly the plane you could land it, and we might even be able to use the airplane again afterward.
Fear is your friend, and this is a beautiful illustration of why - if you’re in an airplane with the autopilot turned on, and something happens to the pilot, you shouldn’t turn the autopilot off - see, you know more than you thought you did
No, the first thing you should do is get on the radio and yell “HELP!” or “MAYDAY!”. Let the autopilot fly the airplane if everything is straight and level until you can get some good instructions on what to do next.
Go ahead and read the thread already posted. Also, those little “worst case” survival handbooks have a pretty good “how to land a small airplane” chapter. If you keep your head and follow their technique you’d probably get down in one piece.
If you do find yourself in the front seat of a small airplane you can always ask the pilot about the controls - most pilots have a show-off streak and will talk your ear off if you let them (just look at this thread!). Ask where the airspeed indicator is, where the radio is and how it works (121.5 is the “911” frequency for pilots, by the way - just in case you ever need to know) The yoke/stick will be in front of you, and the rudder pedals by your feet. That’s the minimum you need to know to land it.
Now, if you’re talking about turboprops and jets, that’s a different story. I may be a pilot, but I don’t think I could successfully land one of those. On the other hand, if I ever found myself in that position I’d certainly give it my best try. Why not? The alternative isn’t very pleasent, is it? But you’ll need a radio and a really good autopilot. See the thread mentioned by Pilot141
Now you musn’t say things like that to a phobic and not give details. What happened?
I was on a small plane once when I was 8 or 9yrs old. My brother took me to a small local airport and paid someone to take us for a fly without my parents knowledge. I barely remember it other than the fact my parents hit the roof when they found out. And rightfully so. I was just a kid and didn’t know, my brother was 18 and knew better. We could have been killed and my parents would have been left wondering WTF were they doing on a plane. I don’t have any experiences to compare with or tell you it was the noise, or the height and stuff like that. I like certain heights but not all. I like a rollercoaster but I didn’t like going up in the Sears tower in Chicago back in '87.
I can’t say my fear has anything to do with 9/11 because I was this way before that day. It doesn’t help by any means, in my eyes its only one more thing to worry about.
We did have a friend pass away in February who was killed in a plane crash. We were shocked to say the least. It was a small plane and one he was piloting, his uncle was a passenger they were trying to land and I’m not quite sure what happened. It killed our friend instantly and his uncle died later. 37 yrs old. Things like this only reinforce my fear and don’t help. I waited on him and his wife back in January and was telling them how bad my FIL was doing since MIL’s death. He kept saying “That’s so sad” shaking his head. He was gone a month later. The first fatality ever at that airport. Statistics?
I know statistically I am more likely to be killed in a car crash, rather than a plane crash. Yet I feel in control when I am behind the wheel of my car. If I were to fly. I relinquish that control over to someone else. I know, I know I do that everyday getting in the car.
Lack of knowledge=fear. I would like to get to the point that I could just do it. I know it would be a big weight off my shoulders. But I’ve also had nightmares before which tell me not to do it. Could all be physchological. I still get chills watching that damn Twilight Zone episode where that lady has those morgue dreams that haunt her. When she goes to the airport it’s the same lady that greets her at the plane door and says “Room for one more honey”. She runs off screaming and crying then the plane takes off and blows up. :eek:
I took my first solo cross-country flight in a two-seat C-150 about a year after getting my first pilot license. Five hops for a round trip total of about 900 miles. At $46/hour wet (renter partially reimbursed for fuel purchased enroute) it came out to around $500. And painfully slow - with a stiff headwind you’re lagging traffic.
An important thing to know about small plane rental is that the FBO usually requires around three hours of use per day, otherwise you get charged for the three hours for every 24 hours you have the plane on the road, regardless of how much time you actually put on the plane. This is to keep revenue generation up on a plane that others cannot rent while you’re away. So if I wanted to spend three days on the road with a plane but took a Mooney that did the trip in several fewer hours than the C-150, it’s possible I might get dinged for time I didn’t actually use. A bit of a trade-off. Pilots who are trying to build hours might opt for the slower, cheaper plane. Also worth considering is the issue of cost per seat-mile when sharing costs with passengers in a small plane.
We took off from Detroit Metro in a jet bound for Midway airport in Chicago (I might also mention this was about 7 years before I started flying myself). Just as the wheels lifted off the runway we hit something (actually, I think it was a bird sucked into the starboard engine). The whole, entire jet yanked sideways, to the right. Keep in mind, we were just off the ground. Then someone on that side of the airplane starts yelling about fire and smoke and pieces coming off the wing.
That’s how the flight started. It was another 40 minutes before we landed.
On the upside - the pilot did a fine job of managing the situation where he was down an engine very close to the ground (which is quite dangerous), they put the fire out (presumably by shutting down the fuel supply to that engine), and we all landed safe and sound (although there may have been some underwear casulaties). Not that I was real happy about being followed down the runway at Midway by a small herd of fire engines, lights and sirens going, or being parked away from the terminal building just in case we all blew up suddenly.
So… seven years later I have to board a commercial jet to go to a business meeting. I walk up to the gate, and it’s the same sort of airplane. Next thing I know, I’m enjoying breakfast for the second time. I got to upchuck again one more time, but I forced myself to get on board the airplane. The seat probably still has my fingerprints on the armrest. Well, that’s me, I don’t let fear stop me no matter how firmly it has me by the throat.
Sounds like it might be a control issue for you, at least in part.
Personally, I’m still not real fond of commercial airplanes… and yes, it’s a control issue even though I know the guys up front are far better qualified than I am to fly the thing.
In your case, taking a couple lessons might greatly reduce your fear of airplanes… if you were motivated to try it.
Unfortunately, it sounds like most of your experiences so far have been negative. Despite my unfortunate >cough< ride between Detroit and Chicago, prior to that I had had many enjoyable and positive experiences flying commercially and I’m sure that had an effect on my being able to put that one flight behind me as a single bad experience.
(I’ve had a couple of bad experiences since then, as result of my own mistakes. I also extracted myself from those situations as well. Which is a LOT different than sitting uselessly inside a tin can unable to do anything to remedy the situation)
So the question is … how motivated are you to overcome your fear and dislike of flying? Unless you’re willing to get onto an airplane not once but several times in short succession you probably won’t conquer the fear. Then again, maybe your life is such that you don’t need to do this. How important is it to you?
I don’t know about doing it the hard way (FAA checkride, etc) but I know that FSDOs still issue multi-engine certificates with center thrust limitation to quite a few pilots who apply via military equivalency. Interestingly, for military planes without an equivalent type-rating (such as fighters or some trainers), the only two that don’t result in a center thrust limitation are the A-37 and the F-14. The military CTL list is found in Appendix 3 of AC 61-89E. Even the mighty tweet does not have enough thrusties to escape this limitation despite it’s similar configuration to the dragonfly!
Yes, but the FAA converting a military pilot to civilian is different than a civilian pilot looking for the rating. Or so it seems. And this guy was pure civilian
Anyhow, once it was made clear to the FSDO that this wasn’t someone looking to build time in a career or hop into other twins, but rather someone who really was focused on that particular plane, they seemed ammenable to making the exception.
