# Ask the vote verification agent. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031 "2014-05-22T20:38:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/1 "2014-05-22T20:38:44Z")
Today is [election day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2014)in the UK. Polls close at 10PM, UK time, about 25 minutes from now. Counting the votes will commence immediately, and will last all night. Tonight I will be an authorized verification agent. That means I shall be observing the counting, making sure the votes for my party are counted correctly. The counting is done by staff at the civic centre. I won’t be counting, just observing. You may ask about the process of counting votes. Please don’t ask me anything about my politics, that’s off topic. I shall be leaving shortly. Gonna be quite a few hours before I’m back and able to answer. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/2 "2014-05-23T02:47:11Z")
Is this a volunteer position, or were you selected for it? How many counters are there, and how many official observers? And is there press there as well? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/3 "2014-05-23T02:53:51Z")
Update - I was mistaken in one respect. It isn’t actually an all-nighter. Tonight there was a lot of preparation. The ballot papers were unfolded, put into bundles of 25 and counted to make sure none have gone missing. The actual count of how many voted for who will start tomorrow morning. I’ll be there for that too, but I can get some sleep in between. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/4 "2014-05-23T03:16:29Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Is this a volunteer position, or were you selected for it? I’m a member of a political party. The parties are entitled to send their representatives to observe the count. My party requested my help. > [@](#): > > How many counters are there, and how many official observers? And is there press there as well? Each ward will have a table for counting, with about 6 people counting the votes. There’s a lot of other staff buzzing around in between the tables doing various things. Every party will have maybe three or four observers per table. I don’t know if press would be allowed there. I didn’t see any. Probably isn’t a newsworthy story anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/5 "2014-05-23T03:23:35Z")
Uh, is this where I vote? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/6 "2014-05-23T10:40:16Z")
Do UK voters have to show ID in order to vote? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/7 "2014-05-23T13:58:01Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Do UK voters have to show ID in order to vote? I voted yesterday, in the European Parliament elections rather than the local elections, and I didn’t have to show one. Nor at the last local elections, nor at the general election. They send you a polling card in the post and you take that, or the number from it, with you to the polling station. They cross you off the list and give you your ballot, you mark it and put it in the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/8 "2014-05-23T17:52:46Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I voted yesterday, in the European Parliament elections rather than the local elections, and I didn’t have to show one. Nor at the last local elections, nor at the general election. They send you a polling card in the post and you take that, or the number from it, with you to the polling station. They cross you off the list and give you your ballot, you mark it and put it in the ballot box. I had ‘filed’ my ballot card somewhere safe, so I expected them to ask for photo ID. But they just asked my name and took my word for it. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/9 "2014-05-23T18:02:43Z")
When you say you’re there to make sure the votes count for your party, are you saying that if you spotted an error in your favor, that you would not speak up to correct it? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/10 "2014-05-24T09:55:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > When you say you’re there to make sure the votes count for your party, are you saying that if you spotted an error in your favor, that you would not speak up to correct it? The other parties have their own representatives who would no doubt spot it. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/11 "2014-05-24T11:31:40Z")
Have you done this job before? Ever witnessed anything slightly dodgy with the process? Also, if you don’t mind me asking: do you feel that you play an important role? As in, if you weren’t there to oversee the counting process, do yo fear that the votes would be purposefully miscounted? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/12 "2014-05-24T12:37:05Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Have you done this job before? This was my third time. > [@](#): > > Ever witnessed anything slightly dodgy with the process? I’ve spotted a few minor mistakes, nothing serious or deliberate. > [@](#): > > Also, if you don’t mind me asking: do you feel that you play an important role? As in, if you weren’t there to oversee the counting process, do yo fear that the votes would be purposefully miscounted? Yes to both. Our party once caught a vote counter trying to disappear a stack of ballot papers. That was before my time, though. There are certainly a minority of bad apples who would try to cheat the vote, if they thought they would get away with it. The observers make sure that they dare not even attempt it. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/13 "2014-05-24T13:20:44Z")
Does the party or anyone else provide training for you, on what to watch for or how to handle various situations? What happens if you think something is wrong, and other people disagree? Is there a system in place to escalate your concerns? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/14 "2014-05-24T13:40:27Z")
So you physically count paper ballots? What is this, 1960? No computer scanners or electronic voting machines? In my local polling place, as soon as the polls close, the count has been done already by computer, and the totals are emailed to the county clerk (encrypted, I hope). Unless there is a problem, the poll workers are on their way home as soon as they put away the tables and chairs. The county-wide, all-municipal totals are usually up on the Internet within an hour of poll close, often sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/15 "2014-05-24T13:55:10Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Our party once caught a vote counter trying to disappear a stack of ballot papers. That was before my time, though. There are certainly a minority of bad apples who would try to cheat the vote, if they thought they would get away with it. The observers make sure that they dare not even attempt it. Cheers. I’ve had the chance to vote in Spain and Sweden before, this was my first election in London. I was quite amazed by the number of party representatives present at the polling station here compared to those in Spain or Sweden. In my particular case (Tower Hamlets, a Labour stronghold) most of these representatives were from the Labour party which for some reason seemed a bit mafia-ish to me. > [@Musicat](#): > > So you physically count paper ballots? What is this, 1960? No computer scanners or electronic voting machines? > > In my local polling place, as soon as the polls close, the count has been done already by computer, and the totals are emailed to the county clerk (encrypted, I hope). Unless there is a problem, the poll workers are on their way home as soon as they put away the tables and chairs. > > The county-wide, all-municipal totals are usually up on the Internet within an hour of poll close, often sooner. Not OP, but I don’t think electronic voting machines are nearly as widespread in Europe as they are in the USA. I’ve never used or even seen one myself ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/16 "2014-05-24T19:12:52Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Does the party or anyone else provide training for you, on what to watch for or how to handle various situations? Not much training needed. The process of counting is fairly simple, if time-consuming. > [@](#): > > What happens if you think something is wrong, and other people disagree? Is there a system in place to escalate your concerns? Usually, if I think I spot a mistake, the counter checks again, and there is no dispute. On the rare occasions that there is a disagreement, such as whether a particular ballot is valid or a spoilt paper, it goes to the returning officer for adjudication. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/17 "2014-05-24T19:25:19Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So you physically count paper ballots? What is this, 1960? No computer scanners or electronic voting machines? That may be a lot quicker, but has it’s problems. How certain can you be that the voting machines are accurately recording the vote? Maybe they have been rigged. Maybe there is a mechanical failure, and they aren’t reading the vote correctly. See for example the disputed election of George W. Bush. Our method makes sure that every vote is counted correctly and fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/18 "2014-05-24T19:38:15Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So you physically count paper ballots? What is this, 1960? No computer scanners or electronic voting machines? Of course there has never been any argument about the product of electronic voting machines, ever, no no no The UK ballot paper is a straightforward piece of paper that the average voter can negotiate with a pencil, and it can be counted swiftly and accurately. The highest court in the land isn’t involved in such trivial things as counting. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/19 "2014-05-25T11:51:39Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Cheers. I’ve had the chance to vote in Spain and Sweden before, this was my first election in London. I was quite amazed by the number of party representatives present at the polling station here compared to those in Spain or Sweden. In my particular case (Tower Hamlets, a Labour stronghold) most of these representatives were from the Labour party which for some reason seemed a bit mafia-ish to me. That reminds me, **OP** , are you involved in the perennially troublesome issue of postal votes? A recipe for fraud, those are. Also, isn’t Tower Hamlets dominated by Respect or whoever Lutfur Rahman is with now? > [@](#): > > Not OP, but I don’t think electronic voting machines are nearly as widespread in Europe as they are in the USA. I’ve never used or even seen one myself I saw a documentary about them once, they seem to mainly be based out of a fruit-machine company in New Jersey. I think we’d best stay clear. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031/20 "2014-05-25T14:48:58Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Also, isn’t Tower Hamlets dominated by Respect or whoever Lutfur Rahman is with now? Yup. He was originally a member of the Labour Party but was kicked out due to some rather dodgy stuff. If I understand it correctly he is now an independent candidate, but very close to Respect’s leftist-Islamist line. I’ve only lived in the area for around 6 weeks, but I already feel that Rahman is a bit of a special character [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-vote-verification-agent/689031.md?page=2)