# Ask the woman receiving transcranial magnetic stimulation for depression

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [July 6, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090 "2011-07-06T20:45:48Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/21 "2011-07-06T23:33:45Z")

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If you have any questions or want any advice on the insurance end of things let me know and I will help as much as I can. I work in health insurance and will be glad to try and help you get this covered if at all possible.

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**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/22 "2011-07-06T23:50:59Z")

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> [@pbbth](#):
>
> If you have any questions or want any advice on the insurance end of things let me know and I will help as much as I can. I work in health insurance and will be glad to try and help you get this covered if at all possible.

Thank you, you’re a star!

Thanks for clarifying, **Ferret Herder.** I’ve reviewed some of the literature but mostly in abstract form, and your understanding is mine too. Sorry if my thoughts are coming out fuzzy. At least I have an excuse!

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**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/23 "2011-07-07T00:02:30Z")

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This sounds similar to Michael Persinger’s work… how much of the stimulation is hitting your frontal lobe? Has anyone seen god yet? 😉

I hope it works well for you and the money spent is worth it!

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**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/24 "2011-07-07T00:32:11Z")

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Only posting because I want to follow the thread - and to wish you the best!

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**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/25 "2011-07-07T00:58:49Z")

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Woah! This thread is very cool. I hope it works out for you.

My question is where did you _first_ hear about the treatment? From your doc? From a friend? Flyers? Your own research?

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**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/26 "2011-07-07T02:28:23Z")

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So are you typing your answers, or are you just concentrating and watching the words appear on the monitor?

Seriously, I hope you get great results from this treatment.

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**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/27 "2011-07-07T02:40:51Z")

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So, acupuncture and homeopathy didn’t work out?

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**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/28 "2011-07-07T03:01:20Z")

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> [@Leaffan](#):
>
> So, acupuncture and homeopathy didn’t work out?

Go away.

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**Author:** ![Tess\_Trueheart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Tess\_Trueheart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tess_Trueheart)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/29 "2011-07-07T04:02:50Z")

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Cheering for you olives! You recommended a workbook that helped me feel better and I have always appreciated it. Thanks for being willing to share your experiences.

Question: if they are giving you tests as you go to see if your mood improves, is it hard to take them? I know those scale of 1 to 5 type tests and I had a good enough memory to sometimes impishly try and remember what I wrote last time (with a counselor and with a physical therapist). My mood(or pain, with the pt) that particular day/ hour was not reflective of a whole week either. Do you have problems with self reporting or questionnaires?

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**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/30 "2011-07-07T04:07:55Z")

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This is very interesting, **olives**. Dunno whether I’m a candidate, or even whether it’s available in my country, but I hope there are more provable and repeatable non-drug therapies for mental illness.

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**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/31 "2011-07-07T10:16:20Z")

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> [@lindsaybluth](#):
>
> Woah! This thread is very cool. I hope it works out for you.
> 
> My question is where did you _first_ hear about the treatment? From your doc? From a friend? Flyers? Your own research?

From my psychiatrist. She thought I would be a good candidate due to my difficulties with medication. She showed me the machine and put me in touch with the TMS coordinator since I was interested.

> [@Tess\_Trueheart](#):
>
> Cheering for you olives! You recommended a workbook that helped me feel better and I have always appreciated it. Thanks for being willing to share your experiences.

I’m so glad that helped you! I do love that workbook and behavioral activation in general.

> [@](#):
>
> Question: if they are giving you tests as you go to see if your mood improves, is it hard to take them? I know those scale of 1 to 5 type tests and I had a good enough memory to sometimes impishly try and remember what I wrote last time (with a counselor and with a physical therapist). My mood(or pain, with the pt) that particular day/ hour was not reflective of a whole week either. Do you have problems with self reporting or questionnaires?

I struggle with them sometimes because they can be very ‘‘all or nothing.’’ For example, one of the questions asked if I had any suicidal thoughts or feelings that I’d be better off dead. I consider there to be a big difference between these two things and wasn’t sure how to respond because I haven’t been suicidal in a long time, but I think ‘‘better off dead’’ thoughts fairly frequently. And naturally my response on these is affected by my mood at the time of administration. For this reason I tend to consistently underestimate my level of depression.

[QUOTE=Leaffan]  
So, acupuncture and homeopathy didn’t work out?  
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Psychological Medicine, 2009]  
Thirty double-blind sham-controlled parallel studies with 1164 patients comparing the percentage change in depression scores from baseline to endpoint of active versus sham treatment were included. A random effects meta-analysis was performed to investigate the clinical efficacy of fast-frequency rTMS over the left DLPFC in depression.

Results The test for heterogeneity was not significant (QT=30.46, p=0.39). A significant overall weighted mean effect size, d=0.39 [95% confidence interval (CI) 0.25–0.54], for active treatment was observed (z=6.52, p\<0.0001). Medication resistance and intensity of rTMS did not play a role in the effect size.  
Conclusions: **These findings show that high-frequency rTMS over the left DLPFC is superior to sham in the treatment of depression. The effect size is robust and comparable to at least a subset of commercially available antidepressant drug agents.** Current limitations and future prospects are discussed.  
[/QUOTE]

[Cite.](http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=2942844)

[QUOTE=Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 2010]  
Studies of rTMS versus electroconvulsive treatment (ECT, 6 studies) for depression were meta-analyzed. Data extraction: Standardized mean effect sizes of rTMS versus sham were computed based on pretreatment-posttreatment comparisons. Data synthesis: \*\*The mean weighted effect size of rTMS versus sham for depression was 0.55 \*\*(P\<.001). Mono-therapy with rTMS was more effective than rTMS as adjunctive to antidepressant medication. ECT was superior to rTMS in the treatment of depression (mean weighted effect size -0.47, P = .004). In the treatment of AVH, rTMS was superior to sham treatment, with a mean weighted effect size of 0.54 (P \< .001). The mean weighted effect size for rTMS versus sham in the treatment of negative symptoms in schizophrenia was 0.39 (P = .11)and for OCD, 0.15 (P = .52). Side effects were mild, yet more prevalent with high-frequency rTMS at frontal locations. Conclusions: **It is time to provide rTMS as a clinical treatment method for depression** , for auditory verbal hallucinations, and possibly for negative symptoms. We do not recommend rTMS for the treatment of OCD.

[/QUOTE]

[Cite.](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=23059786)

Let me know if you’d like more.

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/32 "2011-07-07T12:15:22Z")

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1. I hope it works out for the best.
2. Can you now count out 26 seconds with the accuracy of a fine Swiss watch?

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**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/33 "2011-07-07T12:23:27Z")

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When you walk down the street, do street lamps flicker and go out as you walk past them? 🙂

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**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/34 "2011-07-07T13:07:53Z")

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Thank you for sharing this with us. I hope that it is just what you need to help with your depression, and that you can find a way to get some or most (or all!) of the costs covered. That would be wonderful.

If it turns out that this treatment is not effective, how long would it be before they make that decision? I may have missed your saying that. Is there a “course” of treatment, and then an evaluation followed by another course? I did read your posts, but might have not caught it.

Can you drive directly afterwards? Are you dizzy?

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**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/35 "2011-07-07T13:11:54Z")

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When your brainpan is comically swollen, will you make them rue the day? Will you use your brain powers to show them what REAL scientists do in University!?

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**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/36 "2011-07-07T13:12:10Z")

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Is this treatment similar to that of a TENS machine? I’ve had TENS for muscle spasm and it’s been suggested again for my recent migraines.

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**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/37 "2011-07-07T13:24:30Z")

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> [@Sigmagirl](#):
>
> If it turns out that this treatment is not effective, how long would it be before they make that decision? I may have missed your saying that. Is there a “course” of treatment, and then an evaluation followed by another course? I did read your posts, but might have not caught it.
> 
> Can you drive directly afterwards? Are you dizzy?

It’s pretty much a ‘‘works or doesn’t work’’ kind of thing. I’m only doing one course. It usually takes about 4 weeks to see results, so I guess we’ll know around the 4 week mark. Although they did say a lot of patients start feeling better after only a couple weeks.

As for driving, no problem. They give me a short rest period and something to drink right afterward (kind of like after you give blood), but it’s totally safe to drive and resume normal activities afterward.

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**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/38 "2011-07-07T14:38:15Z")

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Has ECT been considered? I know in some circles it’s still considered way out there; however, all studies I’ve seen indicate it can be very beneficial for folks with severe, hard to treat depression.

If you have no success with your current treatment, is it under consideration at all?

Anyhow - good luck - I hope this current therapy works very well for you!

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**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/39 "2011-07-07T15:05:43Z")

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> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> When you walk down the street, do street lamps flicker and go out as you walk past them? 🙂

Well, hell! I’ve got that already! I always assumed it was the whole Prince of… well, Princess of Darkness routine. 😃

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**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/40 "2011-07-07T16:23:43Z")

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The way the OP was described, it reminded me of what happens to the mom at the end of Requiem for a Dream. Which I always thought _was_ ECT. How exactly is this different from ECT?

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