# Ask the woman receiving transcranial magnetic stimulation for depression **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090 "2011-07-06T20:45:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/81 "2011-08-05T15:57:41Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I’ve also been doing ACT therapy which focuses on defusing from thoughts/emotions and sort of stepping back objectively, so that might have something to do with it as well. I wouldn’t discount this. I did something similar in therapy once upon a time. While my anxiety problems were much reduced during that period, I also didn’t get much of anything done. I felt very … disassociated/distant/detached … from most things for a while. Had to give up that technique, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/82 "2011-08-06T03:20:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What’s the difference between thinking you are no longer depressed, and actually no longer being depressed? Think about it. Good question. At first I was going to dismiss it by saying depression causes measurable physical, electrical and chemical changes in the brain, which don’t immediately disappear if you reidentify as a non-depressed person. But then I remembered, sustained hopefullness helps many depressed people recover over time, and as I learnt from CBT, mentally labelling yourself as depressed does nothing but make you feel more hopeless, so it stands to reason, stopping labelling yourself depressed would have a positive but not instantanous effect on depression. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/83 "2011-08-06T04:37:45Z")
Do you want to work at the planetarium now? Or can you no longer listen to Beethoven? I’m glad this is working for you and very happy, if still insanely jelous of, your husband is so supportive. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/84 "2011-09-28T18:26:52Z")
Hi **Olives** , I’ve been following this thread with interest. It’s been a month; how are things going? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/85 "2011-09-28T19:21:05Z")
Hope you’re still keeping well **olive**. I guess phyiologically TMS is sort of like very toned down and targeted ECT- which I have seen work very well (ECT isn’t anything like the movies would have you believe). ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/86 "2011-09-28T19:41:30Z")
I’d love to hear a new update too. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/87 "2011-09-28T20:09:47Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Okay, I’ll come out with it. It runs about $350 per session, for 30 sessions that’s… $10,500. > > . Oh. My. God. You do realize that for that kind of cash you could buy a [GAMING TABLE](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622014) and have money for dice left over? Seriously though, I squeeze a penny way tighter than most, and if I thought there was a fair chance I could help a loved one out of depression for so little, it wouldn’t faze me to spend it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/88 "2011-09-28T20:43:40Z")
I was thinking about updating this earlier, but hadn’t gotten around to it. It’s been a little over a month, I believe, since my last session of TMS. How am I? Hard to say. I experience some level of depression on a daily basis. I acknowledge that the test scores indicate I’m doing much better, so I guess some of the psychomotor symptoms (sleep, fidgeting, concentration, etc.) have improved. I’m a little frustrated at times because I feel like my doctors and I are not on the same page. I don’t think I’m any less prone to depression as I was before. I saw my psychiatrist today and I was very blunt that I am not as convinced of my progress as they are. She suggested I start taking Risperdal again. I may do so… I’m still thinking it over. On the other hand, I’m currently living in a very unstructured environment and doing a lot better with the lack of structure than I normally do. I’m able to keep my mood in a more or less neutral state by getting regular exercise - and I have been exercising daily since I stopped TMS. I’'m socializing more than I have before, and recently attended a BBQ with 10 people (a lot for me) and had a blast, and am going white water rafting this weekend with my husband and some friends - a trip that was my idea and that I planned and orchestrated, so that’s new. So I can’t deny I AM coping better - but this is where it gets tricky. At the same time as TMS I also started ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy), and I feel that it has made a HUGE difference in my ability to cope with depression. Part of ACT is just accepting that depression is a part of life, accepting it’s not going to go away - and that was hard for me, because I have spent the last 10 years or so fighting furiously to improve my mental health. And all my therapists have said, ‘‘Oh, you’ll do so much better once we apply X, Y and Z.’’ And I’ve done X, Y and Z and still suffered from depression. And then I go to this crazy new therapist and he’s saying, ‘‘Let go of the struggle. You can’t solve this. You don’t have to fight this battle anymore.’’ And getting to that point has been so liberating and has made a big difference in how I cope with depressive episodes. Mental health has become a lesser focus in my life than other things I have going on. I don’t worry or panic about it anymore, or try to reject it or change it, I have just learned to accept and try to live the life I want to live regardless of whether or not I’m depressed. So it’s hard to say that TMS didn’t help, or if it did, exactly how it helped. While there still doesn’t seem to be a difference in my mood, there does seem to be a difference in how much I suffer because of my mood, and a difference in my ability to behaviorally activate to improve it. Whereas once I would spend the day in bed or sleeping on the couch, now I get up and go for a run, and that’s certainly a step forward. As for the money, we are currently applying for reimbursement. I got my claims forms filled out by the TMS coordinator today, and I will be submitting them tomorrow. We expect that the claim will be denied, and after that we go to appeals. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/89 "2011-09-28T23:30:55Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Mental health has become a lesser focus in my life than other things I have going on. I don’t worry or panic about it anymore, or try to reject it or change it, I have just learned to accept and try to live the life I want to live regardless of whether or not I’m depressed. Olives, this is huge. Congratulations on not letting the demons keep you down. I, too, suffer from depression. I had pretty well conquered it with this attitude and then, after surgery for something else, the depression went away. It was amazing. But then, (\*Jaws \*theme) I had some financial struggling and something else happened that put me right back down, deeper in the hole than ever. This time I got help. I am determined to work with my therapist to get myself off the drugs that helped me through the first stretch of recovery. I think I will be satisfied if I can get back to the stage you are at now. Trying to live the life I want regardless of my depression. I did it before. I can do it again. Being willing to voice your struggle has helped me in mine. Thank you Olives. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/90 "2011-09-29T01:21:20Z")
Keep it up, **olivesmarch4th** , keep slugging. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/91 "2011-09-29T04:16:37Z")
Keep fighting the good fight! ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/92 "2011-09-29T19:47:42Z")
I am sorry to hear that it did not work as well as we all had hoped! It seemed so promising. Since it did not work, I would like to recommend that you read [The Magnesium Miracle.](http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Miracle-Carolyn-Dean/dp/034549458X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317325529&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/93 "2011-09-29T20:14:39Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Since it did not work, I would like to recommend that you read [The Magnesium Miracle.](http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Miracle-Carolyn-Dean/dp/034549458X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317325529&sr=1-1) I sure hope you are not serious. While IANADoctor, that book includes a chapter on the use of homeopathic magnesium, and that alone shows the author knows little about medicine. It has all the earmarks of a quack. Legitimate medicine does not claim that one drug will cure everything, yet this book list magnesium as a cure for asthma, blood clots, cystitis, depression, detoxification,[sup]\*[/sup] diabetes, fatigue, tooth decay and 10 more. If anyone is more qualified than I to critique the book, I would appreciate it. Meanwhile, I have strong reservations. If I have been whooshed, perhaps it’s the high winds today. - “detoxification” is a buzz word for woo treatments, and has little use in medicine. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/94 "2011-09-30T01:41:15Z")
Well, magnesium does handle detoxification if you take it in quantity. The other claims seem a little more far-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/95 "2011-11-04T03:28:32Z")
Hi Olive, may I bother you for an update? How are you feeling now that life has gone on for a bit? Did insurance pay up? (Your last update reminds me a bit of when I first started taking SSRIs - they didn’t make me any happier, but they lifted a huge weight and I was able to think again. Once I could do that, I could deal with my problems, and then life gradually became joyful. I’m hoping the TMS has had a similar effect for you!) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/96 "2011-11-04T13:03:54Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > Hi Olive, may I bother you for an update? How are you feeling now that life has gone on for a bit? Did insurance pay up? > > (Your last update reminds me a bit of when I first started taking SSRIs - they didn’t make me any happier, but they lifted a huge weight and I was able to think again. Once I could do that, I could deal with my problems, and then life gradually became joyful. I’m hoping the TMS has had a similar effect for you!) Thanks for asking. I’m actually doing quite a bit better now, but I don’t know if it’s related to the TMS, to the fact that I’m back on Risperdal, or to Acceptance and Commitment Therapy which has helped a lot. It may be a combination of the three, but I have to give major props to ACT. I just finished the basic workbook and am now taking the advanced course for depression. As for insurance, I submitted the claims forms and am awaiting a response. We expect that the claims will be denied and then I will go on to appeals. The TMS coordinator has already prepared a statement on my behalf. I don’t expect to hear from them for a few months. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/97 "2011-11-04T17:38:30Z")
Glad to hear you’re doing well! When you say you’re doing quite a bit better, do you mean that some of the symptoms of depression have been alleviated, or that your mood is improved overall? Or both, or something else? Given the chance to go back in time, would you do the TMS therapy over again? I’ll be curious to hear how the insurance situation works out. You know something’s wrong with the system when companies screw over their customers as a matter of course. Free markets aren’t supposed to work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/98 "2011-11-04T17:54:09Z")
> [@FlyByNight512](#): > > Glad to hear you’re doing well! When you say you’re doing quite a bit better, do you mean that some of the symptoms of depression have been alleviated, or that your mood is improved overall? Or both, or something else? Given the chance to go back in time, would you do the TMS therapy over again? Part of coping for me has been learning to accept depression, not expect it to go away. I think TMS was my last ditch attempt for that ‘‘miracle cure.’’ When it didn’t result in 100% alleviation of symptoms, I grieved. I grieved long and hard, and finally accepted once and for all that the miracle cure ain’t coming. I am vulnerable to depression, and I have some symptoms every day, and I probably always will. That said, through ACT I have learned to suffer less from my depression when it happens, by accepting it as an inevitable part of my life. Paradoxically, this results in a reduction in symptoms. Another component of ACT is… well, action. Identifying my values and learning to live a life of value regardless of my mood, again, results in a reduction of symptoms. A huge component of this is working on avoidance behavior. And let me tell you, I am a very skilled at avoidance. ACT is really kind of counter-intuitive - the second the goal becomes alleviating depression is the second it stops working. My psychologist has stopped asking me how depressed and or/anxious I have been and instead asks, ‘‘How meaningful was your week?’’ Last week he did end the session by asking me to self-report on anxiety and depression. I said, ‘‘It’s amazing how every week that question matters less and less to me.’’ So the short answer to your question is, I’m not sure if it’s the depression levels have really dropped or just the suffering that used to go with it. I can tell you that I feel like I’m living a good life, doing things that matter to me, and that results in a general feeling of satisfaction regardless of my mood at any given instant. Finally, Risperdal really helps with my anxiety, and since depression is really a result of me avoiding things that make me feel anxious, I am able to do more and worry less. And yes. I would do TMS therapy over again. I think it was the right choice. I don’t regret the decision. I do wish it weren’t so damned expensive, though. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/99 "2011-11-04T20:13:41Z")
Very interesting, thanks! What you say about ACT actually makes total sense to me. Depression can be such a self-reinforcing cycle. ---
**Author:** ![cheeser9712](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@cheeser9712](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheeser9712)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090/100 "2012-03-13T01:56:06Z")
Hey Guys! Depression has made my concentration and memory a massive problem, not to mention my mood. With all this going on, my grades have fallen and I’m not doing well in my classes. I am a senior at the University of Oregon. I’m getting rTMS treatment in a few weeks in Corvallis, Oregon hopefully. For people who have had rTMS treatment, did your memory and concentration improve(obviously if the depression was affecting those areas)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-woman-receiving-transcranial-magnetic-stimulation-for-depression/588090.md?page=6)