# Ask your musical questions here! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [December 27, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808 "2006-12-27T23:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/21 "2006-12-28T06:52:11Z")
I like a’s. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/22 "2006-12-28T07:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Actually, all of the modes were medieval inventions. During the Renaissance they were given Greek names because the music theorists at the time assumed they corresponded to the modes that they were reading about in classical writing. However, we don’t have enough evidence to determine WHAT the classical writers meant by musical mode – clearly there were different musical styles from different parts of Greece but we have no way of reconstructing them. [/QUOTE] Unless I’m misunderstanding you, I’m hedging with my original parenthetical comment (that most of the modes originated with the Greeks) because there are some modern modes like dominant lydian, locrian #2, altered moded (aka super locrian). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/23 "2006-12-28T07:26:30Z")
[QUOTE=jackelope] Huh? I’m an amateur guitarist/ukuleleist, so I know a little bit about scales and such; _is_ there a difference between E# and F? Fb and E? B# and C? Cb and B? [/QUOTE] Well, yes and no. In the 20th century, since the advent and acceptance of equal temperament, they are enharmonic, i.e. the same pitch represented by two different notes. Obviously, on a piano there’s only one key for each pair of enharmonics, and with fretted instruments it’s the same, but with many other instruments (like violin or trombone), you can hit any note slightly sharp or flat at will. Secondly, from a harmonic point of view, E# and F are noted as such because of their harmonic function. For example, an augmented A chord would be written A, C#, E#, even though it can just as well be written A, C#, F because the fifth (E) is raised on half step. That, and because you already have an F# in the scale, and it would be a pain to alternate between natural and raised Fs in a piece. This harmonic consideration is also why you find double flats and double sharps in music. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/24 "2006-12-28T07:53:34Z")
Ooh, this time I have a question. I have an interval, say a third. C to E in the key of C. If I sharp the E I have an augmented third. If i double sharp it I have a doubly augmented third. Now say I flat the C. Can I do that? If I can, what do you call that? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/25 "2006-12-28T08:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] Ooh, this time I have a question. I have an interval, say a third. C to E in the key of C. If I sharp the E I have an augmented third. If i double sharp it I have a doubly augmented third. Now say I flat the C. Can I do that? If I can, what do you call that? [/QUOTE] A big fat mess. 🙂 You could construct such a thing in theory, but it’s likely that the musician trying to read it would strangle you with a Pythagorean comma. You could probably call it a triple-augmented third, but since it’s enharmonically equivalent to a perfect fifth, there’s _got_ to be an easier way to transcribe it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/26 "2006-12-28T09:02:50Z")
I need translation help! I know the notes as do re mi fa sol la si. What are the letter equivalencies? Thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/27 "2006-12-28T09:38:17Z")
You can make do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do stand for any key you want. It’s called [solfege](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfege). You could as easily sing one-two-three-four-five, if you preferred, except you might run into trouble. Solfege accounts for notes in between Do and Re for the half-step intervals, whereas counting numbers… well, “one and a half” doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/28 "2006-12-28T10:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Unless I’m misunderstanding you, I’m hedging with my original parenthetical comment (that most of the modes originated with the Greeks) because there are some modern modes like dominant lydian, locrian #2, altered moded (aka super locrian). [/QUOTE] The modern modes didn’t originate with the Greeks. The names that the ancient Greeks gave to different styles of music were applied arbitrarily to the modes that were developed in the middle ages in Europe but there’s actually no stylistic connection between the two. Check the Wikipedia article on [mode](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode). ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/29 "2006-12-28T10:46:18Z")
[QUOTE=HoboStew] One thing I’ve never grasped is the concept of “keys” - like in the context of a Karaoke bar they ask me the song I want to sing and what key I want to sing in. Don’t I want to sing in whatever key the original was? What kind of impact does it make to sing a song normally in the key of, say G, in the key of C. Isn’t that just singing the notes incorrectly? [/QUOTE] It doesn’t really make any impact at all in terms of the sound of the music. However, if a certain tune is played in a certain key, it may or may not place all the notes of the melody within the comfortable range of your voice. Sing a song in the wrong key (for you) and you may end up screeching or droning. It is said that Pete Townsend, while in The Who, often wanted to sing some of his songs himself, and constantly tried to find keys that lead singer Roger Daltrey could not sing in. Daltrey simply adapted himself to the new keys. I don’t know if the story is true, but if so, it explains why singing along with The Who is often extraordinarily difficult. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/30 "2006-12-28T10:51:18Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] When I was in a band, I used to write songs by humming the melodies to the guitar player. He always laughed and told me I used the same chord progression for every song (except the very last song I wrote, which apparently used my usual chord progression backwards). According to him, it was the same chord progression used in “Walking On Sunshine”, “Louie Louie”, “Wild Thing”, and billions of others. [/QUOTE] While the explanations about chord progressions you have received are valid, you have to also allow for the possibility that your guitar player simply didn’t have a very good imagination when assigning chords to melodies. Then again, even if he was right, the songs you list are all perennial favorites, loved and listened to by millions, decades after their initial market run, earning untold royalties for their copyright holders. Who cares if you’re original if you’re rich? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/31 "2006-12-28T11:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] 1. Why do we enjoy listening to music with vibrato, rather than without? Is it a cultural thing or physiological? [/QUOTE] Primarily cultural. There are plenty of music traditions in the world where vibrato is not standard. [QUOTE=panache45] 2. When a singer has a long note, why does he start out with no vibrato, then add it halfway through? Are there instrumentalists who do this? [/QUOTE] Yes, it can be done on many instruments. A vocalist with great control over their voice can use this skill to embellish a long note. Often the vocalist is simply showing off the fact that they can do it, but that level of skill, when combined with an equally well-honed artistic sensibility, can result in a performance that takes your breath away. [QUOTE=panache45] 3. Why does it matter which key something is written in? [/QUOTE] Largely, it doesn’t (see the discussions in this thread and elsewhere about temperament). However, in the music of the past few decades which is dominated by guitar, different keys can result in differently-voice chords on that instrument (arrangements of the letter notes of the chord played in different octaves), which can provide a difference in the overall sound. [QUOTE=panache45] 4. What causes some people to be tone-deaf, and can it be corrected? [/QUOTE] My limited understanding of the current literature suggests that there is not even an agreement on the underlying cause of tone-deafness, much less a universally recognized method of treatment. But I admit I’m way out of my league on this particular subject ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/32 "2006-12-28T11:36:46Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] You can make do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do stand for any key you want. It’s called [solfege](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfege). You could as easily sing one-two-three-four-five, if you preferred, except you might run into trouble. Solfege accounts for notes in between Do and Re for the half-step intervals, whereas counting numbers… well, “one and a half” doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. [/QUOTE] Uh, no, they stand for specific notes. Promise (the names are the first sillables in a song in which the first sillable of each of the first verses followed that progression, although actually the first sillable in latin was Ut). And for specific keys. Do mayor is the one where none is modified (no b or #). There’s no half-note between mi and fa nor between si and do; everything else can be either b or #. I’m not asking what’s solfeo called in English, I’m asking how do I translate “clave de fa” to English letters. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/33 "2006-12-28T11:39:53Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Also, remember, dissonance is a BIG part of music, as is consonance. Fourths and Fifths are not pure in ET, but (depending on where they fall), they are in other tuning systems. While I have not heard a lot of music in historical temperaments, the pieces I have heard do in fact sound “sweeter” and “cleaner” than their ET recordings. [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s not the fourths and fifths. In Equal Temperament, they are only a cent\* off from their pythagorean equivalents, which can’t even be perceived by most people (IIRC, the average threshold of perception for tonal differences is 3 cents). It’s the thirds. A major third in ET is 14 cents wider than in pythagorean tuning, which is more than noticable. It must have sounded jarringly sharp to ears accustomed to PT, and I can understand the resistance. \*A cent is a frequency difference between two tones equivalent to the 1200th root of 2. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/34 "2006-12-28T12:16:31Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Uh, no, they stand for specific notes. Promise (the names are the first sillables in a song in which the first sillable of each of the first verses followed that progression, although actually the first sillable in latin was Ut). And for specific keys. [/QUOTE] There is a school of thought that agrees with you, but it is not universal. The Do mayor you refer to would be the key of C. Guido of Arrezzo (@990-@1033) taught his music students according to the concept of hexachords. The names Ut, re, mi, fa, sol, and la (as you describe, taken from a plainchant in which each verse began on successively higher notes of what had become known as the Ionian Mode) were applied to notes as they lay in six-note runs beginning on the notes C, F and G. Music was vocally based at the time, so the “full range” of notes at the time ran from G below low C (G2, I believe, I was never taught according to that system) to E above high C (E5, I think). Using this system and creative capitalization, each note had a unique name: G ut (often spelled with the greek letter Gamma, giving rise to the English word “gamut”, a contraction of “gamma ut” A re B mi C fa ut (fa of the G hexachord, ut of the C hexachord) D sol re E la mi F fa ut (fa of the C hexachord, ut of the F hexachord, nothing in the G hexachord, which ended on E la mi) G sol re ut A la mi re B fa mi c sol fa ut d la sol re e la mi f fa ut g sol re ut a la mi re b fa mi c sol fa d la sol (no I don’t know if this is where the group De La Soul got their name) e la So the practice of assigning the ut, re, mi names arbitrarily to the letter names goes back about a thousand years. Some current music teachers like to fix the do re mi names to specific letters (C=Do, D=Re), but not all teachers do. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/35 "2006-12-28T13:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Technically there are three different clefs; the most common are the treble clef, also known as the G-Clef because in normal position it curls around G, and the bass clef, curling around F (incidentally, that F is just over an octave below the aforementioned G). Usually the treble clef is placed above the bass, because (simplifying somewhat) one ledger line below treble clef is C4, which is one ledger line above the bass clef. Clefs are technically independent of instruments, but in practice because of range many instruments have music written almost exclusively in one clef. [/QUOTE] Brief historical background - originally, there were far more clefs, with a scribe selecting whichever one made the notes fit best onto the five lines. Gradually, standardisation set in, although even in Bach’s time there were clefs in use which we don’t see today. And there’s four in common use - treble, bass, alto (C3, used by violas) and tenor (C4, used by cellos, basses, bassoons and trombones…and I think that’s it?!) [QUOTE=panache45] 1. Why do we enjoy listening to music with vibrato, rather than without? Is it a cultural thing or physiological? 2. When a singer has a long note, why does he start out with no vibrato, then add it halfway through? Are there instrumentalists who do this? [/quote] As said above, cultural (although maybe there’s a psychological element…we need a music psychologist to answer that one…) And ideally, a musician has complete control over their use of vibrato (both frequency and amplitude) and can use it continuously across a sequence of notes or as an expressive tool on a single one. But it’s a skill which requires a very secure and accurate technique, which requires time and effort to learn (and to teach 😉 ) > [@](#): > > Why does it matter which key something is written in? A couple of reasons: - the characteristics of individual instruments. For example, a vast number of violin concertos are written in A, D or G, because this allows virtuosic writing for the instrument, using chords & arpeggios & double-stops (i.e. lots of fast impressive stuff 😃 ) to be implemented most easily. Also, these keys allow the greatest use of the open strings (G/D/A/E) which have a more resonant sound than stopped notes and therefore can be useful when writing for a solo instrument to be heard above an orchestra. **Fish** - I’m not sure the ‘natural-sharp’ is needed in the example at the bottom of your page. I don’t see anything wrong with just writing an A sharp. I’d expect to see the natural-sharp as a cancellation of a double-sharp. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/36 "2006-12-28T14:11:35Z")
Here’s one that numerous folks have tried to explain to me but it just hasn’t clicked. Why is music for different instruments written in different keys? Why, if every instrument in a concert band played the note denoted by the lowest line on the treble clef, would they not all be playing E? ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/37 "2006-12-28T14:23:16Z")
Guys, **Nava** is Spanish, and in Spain they call the notes by those syllables. It’s not a question of fixed do vs. movable do; it’s just her language. do re mi fa sol la si = C D E F G A B It’s confusing because in English we use those syllables too (using “ti” for “si”), but not in the same way. **Nava** , what do you call the other notes in the chromatic scale? For example, if you raise do © by a half step, what would you call it? (In English it would be C sharp or D flat) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/38 "2006-12-28T14:27:47Z")
[QUOTE=ErinPuff] Guys, **Nava** is Spanish, and in Spain they call the notes by those syllables. It’s not a question of fixed do vs. movable do; it’s just her language. do re mi fa sol la si = C D E F G A B It’s confusing because in English we use those syllables too (using “ti” for “si”), but not in the same way. **Nava** , what do you call the other notes in the chromatic scale? For example, if you raise do (C) by a half step, what would you call it? (In English it would be C sharp or D flat) [/QUOTE] Thank you both, **scotsandrsn** and **ErinPuff**. This is one of those things that for some reason nobody seems to think of putting in the dictionary (and I have some seriously heavy dictionaries). The half note between Do and Re would be _Do sostenido_ or _Re bemol_. So, Fa can only be sostenido (since a Fa bemol would be a Mi), while Si can only be bemol (since a Si sostenido would be Do). ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/39 "2006-12-28T14:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] There is a school of thought that agrees with you, but it is So the practice of assigning the ut, re, mi names arbitrarily to the letter names goes back about a thousand years. Some current music teachers like to fix the do re mi names to specific letters (C=Do, D=Re), but not all teachers do. [/QUOTE] Except in this case, it’s a cultural thing. In Europe ( **Nava** is Spanish, and I’ve played a fair amount of music published in France) do _is_ C, re _isD_, etc. You get songs in ‘la minor,’ for example. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808/40 "2006-12-28T14:35:06Z")
Aaaaand, I’m about 15 minutes behind, aparently. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-your-musical-questions-here/385808.md?page=3)