# Askia -- What the Hell? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564 "2005-09-07T19:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/21 "2005-09-08T16:22:25Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > no instances like the Red Cross trucks and volunteers boat rescues that were turned away, So that was intentional? > [@](#): > > Personal assurances are undoubtedly a form of aid. Advance security would have come in to secure the area in advance of the President’s visit, which would have helped calm the fears driving the rioting and might have put an end to a lot of the stupid looting, too. Where was Bush supposed to make this appearance? The convention center? The Superdome? Other flooded areas of the city via boat? Perhaps instead of sending advanced security, if such a thing were capable, a few loads of supplies could be sent? And being told that food and diapers were on the way would stop people from stealing plasma TVs and jewelry? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/22 "2005-09-08T17:08:41Z")
**kidchameleon.** [Oh, sure.](http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46224) They didn’t want to provide any comfort and relief to the flood victims, they just wanted the people to get the hell out of the Superdome. I had three ideas Bush could’ve implemented, if a personal appearance in the city wasn’t possible. I’m not sure why similar scenarios did not occur to FEMA and Bush’s advisors, or if they were, why they weren’t done. I don’t do this for a living. 1. Letterdrop: Bush’s signature on White House letterhead, short direct instructions dropped en masse over the city for flood victims to pick up and read. This has the advantages of putting in writing what the logistical challenges in New Orleans are, why more aid can’t come sooner, the expectations of the public to comply with the rescue operations and the law, and to stop the looting. Dire warnings for those with guns. Prayers be with the people… etc, etc. Meanwhile send an armed convoy with water and MREs to the Superdome with orders for the evacuees they need to be prepared to move out. 2. Miltary public address, repeated loop, of Bush’s voice instructing the evacuees. Agit-prop tactic to demoralize the enemy can be sililarly adapted to get the civilian forces to comply to state/federal authority. This should have been done when the immediate looting began. This may have been fitted on moving armed convoys with water and MREs through the city with orders for the evacuees they need to be prepared to move out soon. 3. Live radio interview. Have broadcasters in the area play radio interviews with Bush and pre-selected flood victims: about locating family, arrival of food and medical aid, about recovering the dead. This would (hopefully) reach people holed up in hotel rooms or their homes in outlying areas. This broadcast could include instructions on where and how to evacuate. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/23 "2005-09-08T17:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **Askia** said: > > 1. Letterdrop: Bush’s signature on White House letterhead, short direct instructions dropped en masse over the city for flood victims to pick up and read. This has the advantages of putting in writing what the logistical challenges in New Orleans are, why more aid can’t come sooner, the expectations of the public to comply with the rescue operations and the law, and to stop the looting. Dire warnings for those with guns. Prayers be with the people… etc, etc. Meanwhile send an armed convoy with water and MREs to the Superdome with orders for the evacuees they need to be prepared to move out. On what kind of paper would you like these letters to be dropped? Where in New Orleans? Where in Biloxi? Where in Gulfport? Where in the surrounding areas? These cities and the outlying areas are under water. There are many dead and survivors are scattered over a wide, flooded area. What are the odds that any of these letters will be picked up intact by a survivor who wasn’t in one of the rescue shelters? > [@](#): > > 1. Miltary public address, repeated loop, of Bush’s voice instructing the evacuees. Agit-prop tactic to demoralize the enemy can be sililarly adapted to get the civilian forces to comply to state/federal authority. This should have been done when the immediate looting began. This may have been fitted on moving armed convoys with water and MREs through the city with orders for the evacuees they need to be prepared to move out soon. The NG and other emergency response groups were busily trying to locate the survivors who weren’t already in a shelter, who were wading through flood waters and get them out of the floodwater. They were cutting holes in the roofs of flooded, badly damaged homes and pulling people out by helicopter. It seems a lot more imperative to me (and I admit, I’m an armchair quarterback here) to get people out of the flood water that’s infested with alligators and disease and has corpses floating in it than to leave them in that situation but drop them some food. Get 'em out of the water first. Then feed them. > [@](#): > > 1. Live radio interview. Have broadcasters in the area play radio interviews with Bush and pre-selected flood victims: about locating family, arrival of food and medical aid, about recovering the dead. This would (hopefully) reach people holed up in hotel rooms or their homes in outlying areas. This broadcast could include instructions on where and how to evacuate. And since vast areas were (and still are apparently) without electricity, who would hear these broadcasts? The few people who maybe have a portable radio that still has batteries, didn’t get wet and destroyed, and didn’t disappear with the rest of their possessions? Planning was poor, but to say that the reason victims of this disaster are not being helped is due to the fact that they’re black is ridiculous. Insinuating that Bush hates blacks and so is letting them die is a very serious charge. Someone else said it, but I think they were right. You might as well accuse the man of genocide outright instead of just implying it. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/24 "2005-09-08T18:18:55Z")
**catsix.** Paper? Nothing fancy. 81/2 x 11 20 pound copier paper. Colored newsprint, maybe. Something colorful, informative and hopeful, where the ink won’t run when wet. Preferably biodegradable. Communications people only need a few folks to set up and deploy generators and speakers in key parts of the city in mobile units or boats or whatever. Coordinating communications between the tens of thousands stuck in the city and the evacuation/rescue teams should have been of paramount importance to the actual rescue effort. There is no evacuation plan that can’t be improved by informing evacuees precisely when, how and what is happening. I’ll note this is the third possible proposal as I think the other two were better. There was a golden era when when many people where informed by just a few radios. People with radios, ipods with radio capability, can share with those who don’t. I’m accussing him of indifference and some level of incompetence, not genocide. I have no idea where you got THAT from. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/25 "2005-09-08T18:47:44Z")
Askia, I would like clarification of one thing. Your hypothesis that the Federal government’s response to the disaster was substandard because a large percentage of the people trapped in New Orleans were black, and to support this hypothesis, you offer the following facts as proof: That about cover it? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/26 "2005-09-08T19:21:04Z")
Monday. Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/27 "2005-09-08T20:03:29Z")
Seriously, that’s your answer? Did you miss the underlined word in Weirddave’s post? Why not just say you have no proof? It’s OK if you don’t, but please don’t offer a timespan, albeit an unacceptable one, as proof that it was all because the people were black. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/28 "2005-09-08T20:42:42Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I had three ideas Bush could’ve implemented, if a personal appearance in the city wasn’t possible. I’m not sure why similar scenarios did not occur to FEMA and Bush’s advisors, or if they were, why they weren’t done… > > 1. Letterdrop: Bush’s signature on White House letterhead, short direct instructions dropped en masse over the city for flood victims to pick up and read. This has the advantages of putting in writing what the logistical challenges in New Orleans are, why more aid can’t come sooner, the expectations of the public to comply with the rescue operations and the law, and to stop the looting. Dire warnings for those with guns. Prayers be with the people… etc, etc… I believe this is a lock for inclusion in the Ten Dumbest Things Ever Posted On The SDMB. **HEY YOU WITH THE GUNS. STOP THAT!** After all the unread leaflets sink to the bottom of the muck and clog up the few remaining working pumps, we can drop more leaflets to explain what went wrong the first time. > [@](#): > > I don’t do this for a living. Do what? Think? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/29 "2005-09-08T21:56:32Z")
**UrbanChic.** Monday. Thursday. All the proof I need. We had no public comment from the president in all that time to the disaster victims and none of the communication scenarios I suggested. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I believe this is a lock for inclusion in the Ten Dumbest Things Ever Posted On The SDMB. > > **HEY YOU WITH THE GUNS. STOP THAT!** Agreed. That was mighty dumb thing you wrote, **Jackmannii.** ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/30 "2005-09-08T22:09:23Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **BwanaBob.** Being occassionally unthinking doesn’t mean I’m inflexible or uncritical. People who put words in my mouth I never typed or stated and laughably try use that to condemn me drive me crazy, \*\*“Bob.” \*\* I was given incomplete information yesterday that implied Haliburton was awarded a contract this week, instead of last year, to clean up New Orleans. I didn’t check it out and repeated it. I found out I was wrong and I recanted. It’s a mistake. People make them. Last I checked, Haliburton wasn’t a person I could disagree with politically --it’s a Bush favored corporate entity that’s been criticized for cronyism, war-profiteering and fraud. And hell, nah, I STILL don’t like them involved in the clean up effort. But you know, thanks for focussing on the context instead of the substance. > > BTW, I’m a dick. _Bush_ is an asshole. You’re a pussy. You can’t even straight-out call me a name. Tell me what you “pretty much say” to _that._ Do douche first. OK, so you want to be directly called an asshole, here you go Asshole! And I repeat, anyone who is quick to jump on a negative thing about someone they dislike because of political views is an asshole; case closed. The emphasis here is “dislike due to politics”. Recanting wasn’t the issue; the issue was you hate BushCo so you ravenously eat up anything that portrays them in a negative manner before checking the facts. Hate BushCo all you want, free country, (they’re not on my Christmas list either), just exercise due dilligence. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/31 "2005-09-08T22:17:21Z")
Nice to have your balls finally drop, eh, son? ---
**Author:** ![Maendosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Maendosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maendosa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/32 "2005-09-08T22:54:27Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **kidchameleon.** [Oh, sure.](http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46224) They didn’t want to provide any comfort and relief to the flood victims, they just wanted the people to get the hell out of the Superdome. > > I had three ideas Bush could’ve implemented, if a personal appearance in the city wasn’t possible. I’m not sure why similar scenarios did not occur to FEMA and Bush’s advisors, or if they were, why they weren’t done. I don’t do this for a living. > > 1. Letterdrop: Bush’s signature on White House letterhead, short direct instructions dropped en masse over the city for flood victims to pick up and read. This has the advantages of putting in writing what the logistical challenges in New Orleans are, why more aid can’t come sooner, the expectations of the public to comply with the rescue operations and the law, and to stop the looting. Dire warnings for those with guns. Prayers be with the people… etc, etc. Meanwhile send an armed convoy with water and MREs to the Superdome with orders for the evacuees they need to be prepared to move out. > > 2. Miltary public address, repeated loop, of Bush’s voice instructing the evacuees. Agit-prop tactic to demoralize the enemy can be sililarly adapted to get the civilian forces to comply to state/federal authority. This should have been done when the immediate looting began. This may have been fitted on moving armed convoys with water and MREs through the city with orders for the evacuees they need to be prepared to move out soon. > > 3. Live radio interview. Have broadcasters in the area play radio interviews with Bush and pre-selected flood victims: about locating family, arrival of food and medical aid, about recovering the dead. This would (hopefully) reach people holed up in hotel rooms or their homes in outlying areas. This broadcast could include instructions on where and how to evacuate. Hahahahahaaahahaaa, sweet jesus, that has to be one of the funniest things I’ve read here on the boards. Are you seriously that divorced from reality? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/33 "2005-09-08T22:59:07Z")
I guess I don’t find earnest suggestions to manage a citywide crisis funny. Suppose you explain WHY any of these suggestions was off-base, and we can continue from there. Enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Maendosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Maendosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maendosa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/34 "2005-09-08T23:07:04Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I guess I don’t find earnest suggestions to manage a citywide crisis funny. > > Suppose you explain WHY any of these suggestions was off-base, and we can continue from there. Enlighten me. In a city that barely even exists at that moment, flooded with water rapidly increasing in toxicity, people trapped and dying, starving, or killing each other out of desparation - this ‘city’ with (and this is important to your ‘suggestions’) **no power** , resources should have been spent to ‘letterdrop’ messages into said water, send guys out in boats with generators to spread comforting messages to people, and/or radio broadcasts designed to comfort refugees with (wait for it) **no freaking power**? You have to ask why I laugh? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/35 "2005-09-08T23:18:04Z")
**Askia** Do you really think a letterdrop of “Bush’s signature on White House letterhead” – which, to cover the whole area, would require millions of leaflets, hundreds of planes, and thousands of man-hours – wouldn’t meet with howls of derision? “We want water, not your goddamned autograph, motherfucker!” ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/36 "2005-09-08T23:31:58Z")
I need a couple things clarified. First, is it true that the Convention Center was a last-minute idea for a shelter? Wasn’t part of the problem there that nobody (Ahem, Mayor) informed the right agencies that it would be used as a shelter in times of catastrophe? Furthermore, from what it sounds like, nobody knew until a few days after that people were gathering there. Second, I seem to remember the day evacuees were told to go to the Superdome hearing it reported that the city was telling people to plan to stay for a day? Meaning, don’t expect to be able to leave tonight, it’ll be tomorrow. Did I miss my dose that day, or did anyone else hear that? I seem to remember hearing it on Fox, MSNBC and CNN. Any clarification? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/37 "2005-09-08T23:33:44Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > You know, the lack of response wasn’t limited to New Orleans in general or the Superdome specifically. It was widespread and was indicative of poor planning overall and not some racial, economic, political bias. There likely were indeed “unevacuated poor (and rich) whites who voted red” throughout much of the devestated area who’s plight became serious and then deadly since the delay in aid didn’t reach them any quicker than anyone else. > > You can’t single out one pocket here and make such a broad claim when it doesn’t fit what we’ve seen on the whole. The response was inadequate for the entire region, of which first New Orleans and then the Superdome were but a part. **Askia** , I think this post got lost in the shuffle and I would like to hear your thoughts on it. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/38 "2005-09-08T23:52:31Z")
**Maendosa.** Recall that in the panic of the first 96 hours, including a second rainstorm that no doubt exacerbated panic, there was damned little, if any, central authority. Some police walked off the job, overwhelmed and unwilling to prevent looting. Crime and rumor of crimes were rampant and grotesque. As you said, power was out everywhere except in key emergency facilities like local hospitals. People were scared and desperate. Under those conditions, the only reliable way to quickly communicate authority, calm and instructions to tens of thousands of people is through the written word. Recall your history: to demoralize the enemy in Vietnam, the Air Forces of the US and South Vietnam participated in leaflet drops. If this could work to demoralize the enemy, I see no reason why it can’t be used to inform and give hope to people in a disaster area. [http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/vietnam/469th/p47.htm](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/vietnam/469th/p47.htm) New Orleans is small, and the area where the flood victims were primarily congregated was even smaller. Flying low around the city, dropping maybe 500,000 sheets of paper – about a one thousand reams – should more than do the trick. I see no reason why if this were a concentrated effort this would need to take more than 24 hours to make happen, including producing the proper message, securing the necessary paper, getting the printing done, loading the paper for a widely disseminated drop and planning and executing the flight paths. Funny, **furt** , but please check where I said “It has the advantages of writing down what the logistical challenges are, why more aid, can’t come sooner…” The signature is needed so that the people can be reassured the president of the United States is sending help. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/39 "2005-09-09T00:00:16Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > **Askia** , I think this post got lost in the shuffle and I would like to hear your thoughts on it. [There’s some evidence to suggest that aide to other regions was given before those in New Orleans.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6557296&postcount=70) But while **tomndebb** is an excellent researcher, and I’m flabbergasted he found [this,](http://www.bataan.navy.mil) (seephoto galleries) a more fully detailed investigation to look at the claims of _the Bataan_ is in order – one I’m extremely skeptical Bush’s Republican-led commission will do. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/40 "2005-09-09T00:32:17Z")
I’m trying to understand your point Askia but I think your expectations are unreasonable. In a disaster like this, urging people to remain calm is akin to that scene in the Airplane movie where the flight attendant is shreeking at the top of his lungs for passengers to remain calm while chaos errupts around him. For well over 24 hours, insufficient coverage of the damage was available by the media because it was so difficult to get access during and shortly after the storm. People are often unreasonable in surprisingly large numbers in a population to act in a manner that is in their best interest of personal safety. Yes, some may have gone if more resources were available for the evacuation but I don’t know (and neither do you) that these would be significant enough numbers to satisfy the critics of the ongoing rescue efforts. Finally, it takes time for people to get their heads around the scale of the potential/looming danger. Just as it take time to deploy rescue resources effectively and on the scale they are being deployed. I believe you are a bright guy but your criticism comes from a frighteningly narrow understanding of what it takes to lead these kinds of efforts and your anger is fueled on an intense dislike (bordering on obsessive hatred) of the current administration. I’m no fan of BushCo but I don’t think they are to blame for the natural disaster or the challenges they face by the sheer scale of destruction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564.md?page=3)