# Askia -- What the Hell? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564 "2005-09-07T19:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/41 "2005-09-09T00:46:19Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **UrbanChic.** Monday. Thursday. All the proof I need. We had no public comment from the president in all that time to the disaster victims and none of the communication scenarios I suggested. If that’s all the proof you need, I don’t know what to say, I guess. It’s silly. I mean it just smacks of putting your fingers in your ears and singing _Mary Had a Little Lamb_ at the top of your lungs. Your communication suggestions, especially considering how soon as you think they should have happened, were just, well, ludicrous. Leaflets? Oh my Christ, that’s bad. So you can just go on living in your segregated America. Meanwhile, I’ll be living here in just regular old America. The same place where sometimes people fuck up _royally_, bad things happen to people who don’t deserve it and sometimes the former are white and the latter are black. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/42 "2005-09-09T00:47:31Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Funny, **furt** , but please check where I said “It has the advantages of writing down what the logistical challenges are, why more aid, can’t come sooner…” The signature is needed so that the people can be reassured the president of the United States is sending help. I got that; but I suspect that most people want the aid, not an explanation why it’s not coming. It’s like getting one of those “your call is important to us” messages. Such a letterdrop would require, as I noted, a huge amount of resources; resources presumably diverted from actual relief efforts. I refer you to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=333727), upset (rightfully, IMO) about using relief resources to pass out flyers. Your plan would use exponentially more resources. Finally (and almost tangentially), since most people don’t recognize Bush’s sig, and it’s easily faked anyway, I strongly suspect putting it on leaflets would be seen as hubris. The point of this is not just that some plan you thought up off the top of your head is bad; it’s to drive home that all plans are difficult in this situation, and that reducing it to “Monday. Thursday.” as if that proved something it is simplistic in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/43 "2005-09-09T01:01:56Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Monday. Thursday. Ohhhhhhhh, now I’m convinced. This is brilliant, I’m going to use it in other threads: **Diogenes the Cynic** : …and as you can see, Senator Rhodam-Clinton’s proposal would decrease taxes but have a net increase in federal income due to less overhead. **Kid Chameleon** : But she arrived in Syracuse on Monday and left on Thursday. **Diogenes the Cynic** : So? **Kid Chameleon** : Monday. Thursday. **Diogenes the Cynic** : Oh, I see now. Yeah, that was a stupid idea. I’m going to vote for Jeb now! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/44 "2005-09-09T01:03:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m trying to understand your point Askia but I think your expectations are unreasonable. In a disaster like this, urging people to remain calm is akin to that scene in the Airplane movie where the flight attendant is shreeking at the top of his lungs for passengers to remain calm while chaos errupts around him. I’d rather have some urging to be calm and assurances that help is on the way unheeded than to learn NOTHING was communicated from authorities for days. That’s a recipe for panic. To me, the willingness to go before the people and make plans and assurances is a sign of leadership and not, to my mind, an unreasonable expectation. But then, maybe I’m just weird that way. I certainly didn’t expect this President to remain sitting on his ass being read to in a photo-Op for however many minutes it was after hearing about attacks on the Wolrd Trade Centers and Pentagon … > [@](#): > > For well over 24 hours, insufficient coverage of the damage was available by the media because it was so difficult to get access during and shortly after the storm. Ground coverage was focused on looters. [Aerial satellite surveillance had images up by dawn.](http://news.com.com/2300-7337_3-5843939-1.html?tag=nl) > [@](#): > > People are often unreasonable in surprisingly large numbers in a population to act in a manner that is in their best interest of personal safety. Yes, some may have gone if more resources were available for the evacuation but I don’t know (and neither do you) that these would be significant enough numbers to satisfy the critics of the ongoing rescue efforts. I don’t know know, but if you’ve been stuck in the Superdome and suddenly get word you can leave for shelter elsewhere where there’s running water food and electricty I’m gonna take a wild stab in the dark and guess that stadium would be emptied. > [@](#): > > Finally, it takes time for people to get their heads around the scale of the potential/looming danger. Just as it take time to deploy rescue resources effectively and on the scale they are being deployed. Agreed: some people are quicker on the uptake than others. > [@](#): > > I believe you are a bright guy but your criticism comes from a frighteningly narrow understanding of what it takes to lead these kinds of efforts and your anger is fueled on an intense dislike (bordering on obsessive hatred) of the current administration. I’m no fan of BushCo but I don’t think they are to blame for the natural disaster or the challenges they face by the sheer scale of destruction. My understanding must be narrow, because I haven’t heard any in-depth self-recriminations from top officials in this fiasco yet. I don’t get it. I don’t get the delays, the botched plans, the (apparent) miscommunications, the failure on the city and statewide level to execute their pre-planned evacuations, why there was a parking lot full of flooded buses that should have been used to evacuate people. I know one thing: in any crisis management, information needs to be shared quickly and clearly to those in need in regard to what to do next. Looking for leadership and hearing nothing for days exacerbated what stress and panic these people did face. I don’t blame Bush for the storm. I blame him, Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco largely for the immediate aftermath. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/45 "2005-09-09T01:15:05Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > [There’s some evidence to suggest that aide to other regions was given before those in New Orleans.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6557296&postcount=70) But while **tomndebb** is an excellent researcher, and I’m flabbergasted he found [this,](http://www.bataan.navy.mil) (seephoto galleries) a more fully detailed investigation to look at the claims of _the Bataan_ is in order – one I’m extremely skeptical Bush’s Republican-led commission will do. But there are areas that still have not recieved aid and there are areas that recieved aid after New Orleans. Isn’t easier to look at this and see a poorly executed aid plan and remarkable confusion than running right to racism in action? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/46 "2005-09-09T01:20:16Z")
**UrbanChic.** What logistically would have been the problem with my suggestions? If you have experience in these matters please tell me something. The leaflet idea has merit, I just don’t like the idea of a bunch of firefighter volunteers passing them out. Having several planes (or helicopters) do it in the timely manner, from the president, means more than than hearing nothing. \*\*furt. \*\* The sight of 500,000 leaflets falling from the sky explaining what exactly happened, ending rumors, urging calm, warning looters and shooters to cease and promising aid is on its way on a strict timetable isn’t as resource-draining as you seem to think it would be. I’ve but together a student newspaper in a week with a staff of five; I can design a leaflet with federal resources to hand off to some pilots to drop. Bush’s signature could be faked? Who would doubt that half-a-million leaflets falling from military aircraft wouldn’t be the president’s doing? **kidchameleon.** 😃 **Harborwolf.** I’ve said it was _botched._ I’ve said Bush doesn’t care about poor black Democrats. I called him indifferent. Many times. Check ANY of my many posts over the last few days and see where I \*ever \* said BushCo was racist and please bring it to my attention. Indifferent and inept is quite bad enough, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/47 "2005-09-09T02:15:28Z")
Huh. No response from **Askia** on my previous post. I guess maybe you ascribe omnicient powers to the President. You know, the part about 1) nobody aware of people huddled in the Convention Center: and 2) the mayor giving the impression the people in the Superdome would be able to return home after a day or so. Keep hating. It’s doing a lot of good. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/48 "2005-09-09T02:40:27Z")
**Askia** , have you ever heard the phrase, “Never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance?” Hell, if you’re gonna go to all the trouble of dropping shit en masse over the disaster area, why not drop care packages instead of just leaflets? (Didn’t they do that in Afghanistan?) ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/49 "2005-09-09T03:01:51Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > \*\*furt. \*\* The sight of 500,000 leaflets falling from the sky explaining what exactly happened, ending rumors, urging calm, warning looters and shooters to cease and promising aid is on its way on a strict timetable isn’t as resource-draining as you seem to think it would be. I’ve but together a student newspaper in a week with a staff of five; I can design a leaflet with federal resources to hand off to some pilots to drop. Of course you can --that’s the _easy_ part. But you seem to be under the impression that printing up a million leaflets and distributing them over hundreds of square miles is something you can do in half an hour. To begin with, “ending rumors” is dependant on knowing what the rumors are, and then knowing what the best solution is. How they were supposed to learn what the most prevalent rumors were on the street – among inaccessible people – on Monday afternoon, I have no idea. One of the more obvious symptoms of the monumental clusterfuck we’ve seen has been that the authorities didn’t know what advice to give. IIRC, even on Monday the city was still selling the superdome as a shelter; it was only later that it became obvious that that wasn’t working. You gonna send out a new set of flyers every time the plan changes? “Urging calm?” “Well, shit, here I was all set to panic because I’ve got no food or water and my infant is running a fever, but this here piece o’ paper from the sky tells me everything’s gonna be fine. Guess I got nothin’ to worry about…” “Warning looters and shooters to cease” Sweet mercy, woman, what planet are you on where violent criminals are deterred by _leaflets_? But all that is beside the point: Given that the damaged area was a couple hundred miles long, and many miles inland, and that millions of people were affected, how many leaflets do you think you’ll need? How many people are you going to need to run off those millions of (“preferably biodegradable”) leaflets on copiers/printing presses? How many aircraft will you need to drop those millions of leaflets? How long to set up those aircraft for leaflet drops? (Please tell me your idea isn’t to have some guy standing in an open doorway tossing out fistfuls of paper.) How many sorties will it take to cover the area? How many people will it take to load, fuel, and service those aircraft over a period of days? _Is there anything else those people might do instead?_ Sweetheart, you’re embarrasing yourself. You hate George Bush. Swell. Nobody here is thrilled with his performance. But continuing to cry “racism” with no evidence or even a coherent argument to support it just makes you look like a fool. Showing such an obvious ignorance of logistics doesn’t help. Quit while you’re behind, before you end up with the credibility of **Scott Plaid**. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/50 "2005-09-09T03:25:33Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > I wasn’t trying to even _imply_ that racial issues don’t exist. What I take issue with is the notion that some people truly believe there is a ‘black America’ and a ‘white America’. > [@Askia](#): > > but at no time did I try to refute the existence of racial issues existing in this country. Damn, **Excalibre** , that doesn’t even sound like me. YAAAAHH!! Just so as we’re clear, like I said, **UrbanChic** - I wasn’t suggesting that you implied any such thing. I really wasn’t targeting you at all, like I said in the post in question. I was just using your post as a convenient jumping off point for my own peripherally-related rant. And **Askia** , huh? I was bitching about _other_ people, like **WeirdDave** , suggesting to _you_ that race is a dead issue. You obviously have never once suggested that racism no longer exists. However, other folks on the boards have done so, and like I said, I saw it in particular in conversations with you. Like this: you, **Askia** , discussed a racial issue. Joe Q. Random Doper responds with “I’m so sick of hearing about racism! It’s not a significant problem nowadays” and so forth. I’m upset at the Joe Q. Random Dopers out there, not at you. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/51 "2005-09-09T06:00:03Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > And **Askia** , huh? I was bitching about _other_ people, like **WeirdDave** , suggesting to _you_ that race is a dead issue. You obviously have never once suggested that racism no longer exists. However, other folks on the boards have done so, and like I said, I saw it in particular in conversations with you. Like this: you, **Askia** , discussed a racial issue. Joe Q. Random Doper responds with “I’m so sick of hearing about racism! It’s not a significant problem nowadays” and so forth. I’m upset at the Joe Q. Random Dopers out there, not at you. Care to link a post in which I said this (“race is a dead issue”)? I don’t think you can, Sparky, but let’s see your evidence if you’re going to accuse me of something so stupid. I’ve taken issue with Askia about his…peculiar and self serving definition of racism, and said bluntly that I think he’s full of shit when he suggests that race was the reason for a slow federal response in New Orleans, but I’ve never said that racism didn’t exist in America today. In fact, I think it’s a real problem, but it infuriates me when wannabe martyrs like Askia trot out the race card when discussing relatively minor issues, or play it to serve their own twisted agendas as in the case of New Orleans; such despicable exaggerations and impassioned wailing over imagined slights serve only to camouflage the very real racial issues facing this country today behind a screen of fabricated outrage and indignation. In short, it’s disgraceful and it’s counterproductive in a way that is perfectly illustrated in the fairy tale of the boy who cried wolf. It’s not even close to being part of the solution, but it is a huge part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/52 "2005-09-09T12:38:16Z")
Interesting piece of information on CNN just now… not exactly an exhaustive and verified study but… Greater New Orleans has the largest native population in the US. That is to say, it has the largest concentration of people who were born, live and intend to die within it’s geographic (proximity) borders (whatever that means). Don’t know how unique this fact is to this (US) area but reports say that an exceptionally large number of refugees have never been out of the area and never would have left had it not been for the disaster. Kinda helps to explain the (stubborn) reluctance exhibited by many people to leave their homes during the evacuation efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/53 "2005-09-09T15:11:10Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > “… peculiar and self serving…” > > “… full of shit…” > > “… wannabe martyrs…” > > “… serve their own twisted agendas…” > > “… despicable exaggerations and impassioned wailing over imagined slights…” > > “… fabricated outrage and indignation.” > > “… it’s disgraceful and it’s counterproductive…” > > “… the boy who cried wolf.” > > It’s not even close to being part of the solution, but it is a huge part of the problem. …aaaand _breathe._ Galled, close-minded and hysterical is no way to go through life, son. Monday. Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/54 "2005-09-09T15:14:27Z")
**QuickSilver.** That would help explain a lot. I wonder if a list exists ranking the top 10 native population American cities. Anyway, link? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/55 "2005-09-09T15:14:30Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Galled, close-minded and hysterical is no way to go through life, son. Oh, this is rich. Stop calling grown men son. You know _damn_ well you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/56 "2005-09-09T15:17:36Z")
**UrbanChic.** True. But I promised myself I could in a Pitting. Besides I was paraphrasing the dean in _Animal House._ Thats’s the line. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/57 "2005-09-09T15:21:50Z")
Well, Ok. I guess. Son. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/58 "2005-09-09T15:24:37Z")
LOL. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/59 "2005-09-09T15:28:18Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **QuickSilver.** That would help explain a lot. I wonder if a list exists ranking the top 10 native population American cities. > > Anyway, link? A say… A say… Aah heard it on CNN!!! Ain’t you been listenin’ to me son!!! You’re built to low… I keep chuckin’ em and you keep duckin’ em! [/R. Leghorn Foghorn] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/askia-what-the-hell/320564/60 "2005-09-09T15:29:46Z")
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