# Asking an African-American woman to give up a bus seat in the handicapped section makes me racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137 "2013-11-17T19:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/41 "2013-11-18T11:33:59Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I missed this until you pointed it out. A wrist injury? Thats a ridiculous reason to demand someone else get up. Can you explain your reasoning regarding how having an injury which may prevent one from effectively holding onto a strap or bar to maintain balance in a moving vehicle is a ridiculous reason to ask someone without such an injury to switch places? To forestall the inevitable “She has another hand”, let us presume, for the sake of argument, that she was carrying a bag of some kind that was too heavy/awkward to use the injured hand for. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/42 "2013-11-18T11:34:22Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I missed this until you pointed it out. A wrist injury? Thats a ridiculous reason to demand someone else get up. It’s not so ridiculous if she was carrying something in her other hand. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/43 "2013-11-18T11:41:31Z")
I don’t think the the OP’s initial request was intentionally racist. The two girls were ungracious. Having said that, the symbolism inherent in the fact that the empty seats were in the BACK OF THE BUS would have immediately suggested itself to me. If there were other, white, passengers who could have been asked to move (and it sounds like there were), singling out the black passengers and asking them to move seems tone-deaf with respect to racial sensitivities. Moreover, why not ask _one_ person who appeared to be traveling alone to move, rather than make two people move? (The idea of making a general announcement asking for a volunteer is great, though I might not have thought of it.) The “maybe they’re pregnant” statement was inflammatory and it sure as hell sounds racist. When you said that, you simply demonstrated to the girls that (a) they were right in thinking you were racist; and (b) there’s really no need to be polite to one’s elders, since they have no manners either. On the wrist thing, I’m more sympathetic. My mother had a wrist injury and believe me, that’s no joke. The fact it was only one wrist means nothing. Maybe it was the dominant hand that was injured, and the non-dominant hand is much weaker. Maybe one arm was needed to carry a sack of groceries. Walking to the back of a moving bus could indeed be a trial for someone with a compromised wrist. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/44 "2013-11-18T11:44:53Z")
typical entitled elders inconveniencing young people if you can’t function in normal society maybe you shouldn’t leave the retirement home ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/45 "2013-11-18T13:31:54Z")
Where I live(Broward County, Florida), the bus drivers are trained to clear the handicapped seats before a handicapped person even boards. That removes any possibility of misunderstanding. The bus driver simply says, “An elderly person and/or disabled person is boarding the bus, I need the seats reserved for the disabled cleared.” Not in that exact language, but I’ve never seen an issue over it, and this being Florida, we have a LOT of elderly and disabled bus passengers. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/46 "2013-11-18T13:48:49Z")
The last time I was on a bus was circa 1990. Haven’t missed the experience. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/47 "2013-11-18T14:12:50Z")
There are buses in Broward County? I’m going with the majority, “yes, they were assholes, but next time just make a general request of the people seated in that area.” ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/48 "2013-11-18T14:23:32Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > To forestall the inevitable “She has another hand”, let us presume, for the sake of argument, that she was carrying a bag of some kind that was too heavy/awkward to use the injured hand for. Why assume that if it wasn’t stated by the OP? I’ve requested that information from the OP specifically because I don’t think it is something we can just assume. And if she was carrying something, the details of the item are relevant as well. Why not just set it down at her feet. Or hell, if we’re all just going to assume stuff, then why not assume that there is an overhead rack that she could put it on. > [@monstro](#): > > It’s not so ridiculous if she was carrying something in her other hand. You’re right. It is not _as_ ridiculous. But she didn’t mention having something in her other hand. She mentioned a wrist injury and the fear of falling; nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/49 "2013-11-18T14:55:48Z")
Sometimes it’s all the delivery. None of us were there except the OP, so I’m not saying this is what happened. But if she made this request in a manner which implied she was more entitled to sit down than they were, I don’t blame them from being offended. Not that this excuses their rudeness. But the OP may have come across as rude to them for good reasons. It is not clear from the OP that the teenagers were sitting in the handicapped seats. If they were, then they should have been more accomodating. But if they weren’t, then the OP really should have singled out someone in those seats. It’s possible those teenagers felt singled out for their race because they didn’t see why the OP would ask them to get up when they weren’t even sitting in a reserved section, and if those seats so happened to be occupied by white people, well then yeah, who could blame them for feeling that way. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/50 "2013-11-18T14:58:39Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I always ask the youngest looking adults. And when the elderly white male driver asked them to move, they ignored him. > > Finally, a white middle aged woman got up and gave me her seat. As I sat down, I said “Maybe they’re pregnant.” > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > That’s racist. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > I was on your side until I heard this. So you are a racist. Thanks for sharing. How is that racist? The sign clearly states that the seats are reserved for “elderly, handicapped and pregnant persons.” Since they felt entitled to sit there, I thought that would be a good reason for it. And believe me, I’d say the same thing about any other young woman of any color not giving up a seat in the front of the bus. And they called me a racist before I made the comment. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/51 "2013-11-18T15:03:01Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I don’t think the the OP’s initial request was intentionally racist. The two girls were ungracious. > > Having said that, the symbolism inherent in the fact that the empty seats were in the BACK OF THE BUS would have immediately suggested itself to me. If there were other, white, passengers who could have been asked to move (and it sounds like there were), singling out the black passengers and asking them to move seems tone-deaf with respect to racial sensitivities. Moreover, why not ask _one_ person who appeared to be traveling alone to move, rather than make two people move? (The idea of making a general announcement asking for a volunteer is great, though I might not have thought of it.) I agree with this comment. We can join in condemning the two girls if y’all wish to. OTOH, we can agree that racism is still rampant in America and that people should take extra care about giving offense. You singled out _two_ black girls and asked them to move to the back of the bus, when whites were also available. :dubious: Clearly non-racist? Not so much. > [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Sadly, I would have said, “Be sure to tell your parents all about this if you ever meet them.” You’re a racist asshole. > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Finally, a white middle aged woman got up and gave me her seat. As I sat down, I said “Maybe they’re pregnant.” So are you. Oh, please do defend yourselves. “The Republican who threw peanuts at the black cameramen weren’t racist either.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/52 "2013-11-18T15:05:16Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The last time I was on a bus was circa 1990. Haven’t missed the experience. Before you write them off altogether, try riding in a regular-sized one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/53 "2013-11-18T15:05:20Z")
I’m not sure if “the seats were reserved for pregnant, handicapped and elderly people” counts as a defense. It’s more “pointing out the obvious.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/54 "2013-11-18T15:06:07Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How is that racist? The sign clearly states that the seats are reserved for “elderly, handicapped and pregnant persons.” Upthread, when **John Mace** asked why you singled them out, you answered that you always ask the youngest people. You said nothing about reserved seats. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/55 "2013-11-18T15:08:28Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How is that racist? The sign clearly states that the seats are reserved for “elderly, handicapped and pregnant persons.” You didn’t mention a sign before, or the fact that they were sitting in reserved seating. You said you asked them because they were the youngest people there. > [@](#): > > And they called me a racist before I made the comment. Weather or not your comment was racially charged or not, this part isn’t really relevant. It doesn’t matter whether or not they have reason to believe you are a racist. We get to take you solely on your comments in this thread. And when you say stuff like "Finally, a white middle aged woman got up and gave me her seat. As I sat down, I said “Maybe they’re pregnant.” You look like a racist. Why did you have to mention that the lady who gave you a seat was white? How was that relevant? Why would you even mention it? Why not just say, “A middle aged lady gave me her seat”? After all, it was their ages that mattered, right? Not their race? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/56 "2013-11-18T15:11:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Upthread, when **John Mace** asked why you singled them out, you answered that you always ask the youngest people. You said nothing about reserved seats. Read the title of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/57 "2013-11-18T15:14:42Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Before you write them off altogether, try riding in a regular-sized one. Heee! They DO have more leg room! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/58 "2013-11-18T15:16:15Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Why did you have to mention that the lady who gave you a seat was white? How was that relevant? Why would you even mention it? Why not just say, “A middle aged lady gave me her seat”? After all, it was their ages that mattered, right? Not their race? If it was just a case of some teenagers refusing to give up their seats, pointing out the participants’ races might indicate some racial animus in the OP. But _they called her a racist_, so it’s entirely relevant. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/59 "2013-11-18T15:56:45Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Before you write them off altogether, try riding in a regular-sized one. The windows taste any better? ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/60 "2013-11-18T16:05:41Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Why assume that if it wasn’t stated by the OP? I’ve requested that information from the OP specifically because I don’t think it is something we can just assume. But it is completely ok to assume that her other hand was perfectly fine and available to grip the bars/straps, whatever and we can skip right to “completely ridiculous!” (as you did without awaiting an answer to your snarky question on the other wrist. Hell, under the current social contract the fact that she is elderly is enough to give the expectation that a younger, more fit person give up the seat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=4)