# Asking an African-American woman to give up a bus seat in the handicapped section makes me racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137 "2013-11-17T19:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/61 "2013-11-18T16:13:56Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Upthread, when **John Mace** asked why you singled them out, you answered that you always ask the youngest people. You said nothing about reserved seats. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You didn’t mention a sign before, or the fact that they were sitting in reserved seating. You said you asked them because they were the youngest people there. AFAIK every major transportation company has these signs at the front of the bus and has had them since at least the 70’s. The signs are even bigger and less ‘nice’ than in the past (it used to be the signs said “please give these seats to the elderly & handicapped, now its 'seats reserved for elderly and handicapped”) The signs are so ubiquitous and known to any one who rides a bus I am amazed anyone is unaware of their existence unless they have not ridden a bus in several decades. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/62 "2013-11-18T16:25:55Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > I’ve had the same experience. And IME it’s almost always the middle-aged women (of whatever race) who are the first to offer a seat without being asked. My observation has been that it’s always women, especially younger women, who immediately hog up the disabled seats in the front, and refuse to yield. Young men, if they’re not thugs, give up their seats fairly readily. (Drove a city bus in a couple of metro areas, and work in transportation planning, where I ride lots of buses.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/63 "2013-11-18T16:32:35Z")
If someone else had written the OP, I might believe it happened as claimed. As it is, I have some pretty extreme doubts. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/64 "2013-11-18T16:44:13Z")
This is the same OP that was once mad a stranger wouldn’t share their umbrella with them, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/65 "2013-11-18T16:45:12Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > But it is completely ok to assume that her other hand was perfectly fine and available to grip the bars/straps, whatever and we can skip right to “completely ridiculous!” (as you did without awaiting an answer to your snarky question on the other wrist. I dont think its an assumption. I responded to her scenario as presented. She never mention that something was in her hand, its not presumptuous to think that nothing was. And even if there were, then why cant she put it down? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/66 "2013-11-18T16:48:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If it was just a case of some teenagers refusing to give up their seats, pointing out the participants’ races might indicate some racial animus in the OP. But _they called her a racist_, so it’s entirely relevant. How is the race of the heroine of the story relavant?? I didnt say that the race of the two girls is irrelavant. I said bringing up the race of the woman who yielded her seat was unnecessary. Clearly she just wanted to show how it was a kind white lady who saved the day. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/67 "2013-11-18T16:51:00Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > The signs are so ubiquitous and known to any one who rides a bus I am amazed anyone is unaware of their existence unless they have not ridden a bus in several decades. Never road a bus in America before. Is it all front seats, or specific front seats that are for disabled passengers? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/68 "2013-11-18T16:54:39Z")
The problem is that the sort of person who would improperly sit in a seat handicap-reserved seat is just the sort of person who would refuse to surrender it to a handicapped person. You can’t argue with stupid, but you can get the driver to free up the seat for you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/69 "2013-11-18T16:57:33Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > How is the race of the heroine of the story relavant?? I didnt say that the race of the two girls is irrelavant. I said bringing up the race of the woman who yielded her seat was unnecessary. Clearly she just wanted to show how it was a kind white lady who saved the day. I doubt she meant anything by it at all. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Never road a bus in America before. Is it all front seats, or specific front seats that are for disabled passengers? Usually they’re the ones nearest the entrances and/or wheelchair storage area. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/70 "2013-11-18T16:58:12Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This is the same OP that was once mad a stranger wouldn’t share their umbrella with them, right? Ha, that’s right. And she also finds it unreasonable when another person on the bus doesn’t like her looking over their shoulder at what they’re doing on their phone. I’d rather ride the bus with the probably pregnant, probably never-met-their-parents teenage girls. And I do think a lot of teenagers are obnoxious, especially in groups. > [@Muffin](#): > > The problem is that the sort of person who would improperly sit in a seat handicap-reserved seat is just the sort of person who would refuse to surrender it to a handicapped person. You can’t argue with stupid, but you can get the driver to free up the seat for you. At least here, it’s expected for people to sit there as long as they move when someone else needs it. And every time I’ve seen a person who obviously needs it get on the bus, other people move without being asked. If it wasn’t obvious, most people would move when asked, I’m sure. I would be very surprised to see someone make a general announcement that they are disabled and have to sit down, and have everyone in the seats ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![all\_timestamps\_displayed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/958977/32.png) [@all\_timestamps\_displayed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/all_timestamps_displayed)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/71 "2013-11-18T17:00:17Z")
Annie Xmas, you definitely weren’t racist, those girls were out of line. But the situation was awkward, & one where their disrespectful response kind of writes itself. Like the context was screaming _ROSA PARKS_ at them so hard they couldn’t help but respond to it that way. Then there’s the fact that your disability is a wrist injury, so as far as they could _see_ you were just a white woman asking them to move. They’d have to take your word for it. The situation is not your fault, it’s not really theirs (although they responded extremely poorly), it’s just an awkward situation. Literally the kind of situation you’d see in Curb Your Enthusiasm. Now that all said those were some rude little jerks who should be giving up their seat to an older woman who’s disabled. BTW as an aside “Rosa Parks” is extremely played out and it keeps things divisive, shit was 60 years ago. Now _most_ black & white people sit where they want, hold doors for each other when circumstances call for it and enjoy a variety of easy interactions… except of course when they’re all caught up with black vs white. Now things are not “fair” yet (what does that even mean?) but capital R “Racism” has mutated into an industry, kind of like “feminism” or I guess pretty well any longstanding cause that mutates from a force that was given a name (“resisting racism”), to an establishment that people want to join or leverage, put on their resume, make a career of (“feminist blogger”), etc… I call it “TEDification” because with something like TED, the de-evolution goes from the original mission of “wow, this guy has some amazing ideas. Let’s get him to do TED talk” to wannabe’s coming in like “I really want to do a TED talk. Time to come up with some amazing ideas!” But I think the same thing happens to literally any cause / establishment. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/72 "2013-11-18T17:00:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The problem is that the sort of person who would improperly sit in a seat handicap-reserved seat is just the sort of person who would refuse to surrender it to a handicapped person. You can’t argue with stupid, but you can get the driver to free up the seat for you. In the buses I’m familiar with, there’s nothing wrong with sitting in the reserved seating, so long as there isn’t someone in one of the named groups who needs the seat. They are especially useful for people just taking a short trip, since they are at the front and usually are sideways facing (so they can be folded up and out of the way for a wheelchair), so they are the easiest to get in and out of quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/73 "2013-11-18T17:08:10Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > And even if there were, then why cant she put it down? What, leave it blocking the aisle while she makes her way to the back of the bus? Are you really so completely ignorant of what it’s like to ride and try to move around on a crowded moving bus? You often need to have both hands free in order to grab on to poles or seat backs if you are moving around. If not, it’s quite possible to fall when the bus makes a sudden start or stop. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/74 "2013-11-18T17:19:36Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Never road a bus in America before. Is it all front seats, or specific front seats that are for disabled passengers? That’s a helluvan idea! A round bus! Everyone’s equal! ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/75 "2013-11-18T17:34:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What, leave it blocking the aisle while she makes her way to the back of the bus? No. She could put it at her feet while she stands there holding the strap. And there’s probably a pole somewhere around there to lean on. I wasn’t suggesting that she set it there and walk to the back. I was suggesting that she stand in place and hold the strap with her good hand. _If_ she had something in her hand that was somehow preventing it’s use, place it on the floor. We’re talking about a handbag or something, right? > [@](#): > > Are you really so completely ignorant of what it’s like to ride and try to move around on a crowded moving bus? Not at all. And I am sure the busses and subways I’ve been on were much more crowded than this one. Dozens and dozens of people have to stand in the center and don’t even have a strap. How do people manage that without falling over, I wonder? > [@](#): > > You often need to have both hands free in order to grab on to poles or seat backs if you are moving around. If not, it’s quite possible to fall when the bus makes a sudden start or stop. Don’t move around. The straps are there so that people can stand when there are not enough seats, right? So she should just stand there and hold the strap. What is odd or ignorant about that? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/76 "2013-11-18T17:35:48Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The problem is that the sort of person who would improperly sit in a seat handicap-reserved seat is just the sort of person who would refuse to surrender it to a handicapped person. You can’t argue with stupid, but you can get the driver to free up the seat for you. As **jsgoddess** says, there’s nothing prohibiting able-bodied people from sitting in those seats. I’ve done it quite often. The only condition is that you are supposed to give them up if someone who needs them gets on the bus. There are plenty of times when a bus has no disabled people at all on board, and it would make no sense to leave a half-dozen seats empty. As long as you give them up when you’re supposed to, it’s all good. > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This is the same OP that was once mad a stranger wouldn’t share their umbrella with them, right? > [@Blackberry](#): > > Ha, that’s right. And she also finds it unreasonable when another person on the bus doesn’t like her looking over their shoulder at what they’re doing on their phone. Those threads sound awesome. I’m going to need some links. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/77 "2013-11-18T17:35:58Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > That’s a helluvan idea! A round bus! Everyone’s equal! I have no idea what this is supposed to mean or what it has to do with my question. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/78 "2013-11-18T17:37:25Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > That’s a helluvan idea! A round bus! Everyone’s equal! He meant “are all front seats reserved” not “are all of the seats on the bus front seats.” ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/79 "2013-11-18T17:45:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I doubt she meant anything by it at all. And I agree with you. But you know, it’s the subtlety of racism that is most prevelant. People don’t consider themselves racist, but then they bring up race when it is not relevant or necessary. “Oh, this black guy at work…” for example. Why not just say “this guy” if race had nothing else to do with it. Seriously, the fact that the middle aged lady was white has nothing at all to do with anything. But the fact that the OP saw a “white lady” and not a “lady” says something about her perceptions. Not a blonde, a brunette, a red head, not simply a middle aged lady… but a “white lady”. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/80 "2013-11-18T17:50:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > He meant “are all front seats reserved” not “are all of the seats on the bus front seats.” Thank you! Now I understand the comment. Yes, I was wondering if “handicapped section” just meant “up front”, or if these girls were sitting in the designated handicapped seats. I know the title says section, but then she says that she picked the girls because of their age. Are there so many handicapped seats, or is the section so large, that there were a lot of passengers to choose from, or were these girls the only ones sitting in the handicapped section. Doesn’t really matter at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=5)