# Asking an African-American woman to give up a bus seat in the handicapped section makes me racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137 "2013-11-17T19:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/101 "2013-11-18T19:39:35Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > A better response for all of us is to teach our kids respect and tell them that if they are on a bus to let the old and injured sit, no matter what color their skin. > > Slee Take race out of the equation, and a 59 year old woman with an ailing wrist (of which I have no knowledge, anyway) is not someone I would give my seat up for, especially when there are available seats in the back. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/102 "2013-11-18T19:48:24Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Take race out of the equation, and a 59 year old woman with an ailing wrist (of which I have no knowledge, anyway) is not someone I would give my seat up for, especially when there are available seats in the back. For me, it would depend. I’m 44, and i’m reasonably fit and healthy. Unless i’ve had a particularly long and grueling day, standing up for the duration of a bus ride isn’t too much of a trial for me. Someone who’s 59 could, depending on their particular circumstances, be very spry and energetic and perfectly capable of standing. Or they could be some combination of unhealthy/frail/overweight/tired that might make it very difficult, even if they weren’t officially disabled. I’d probably move, especially if moving simply involved going to the back of the bus and sitting there instead. As a matter of fact, if i’m sitting near the front of a bus, i tend to move to the back when seats open up anyway. Of course, living in San Diego, most of my traveling these days is done by car. The lack of decent transit is something i don’t like about this area, and i love it when my wife and i visit her family in San Francisco and can get around using buses and trolleys and the subway. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/103 "2013-11-18T19:49:42Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Take race out of the equation, and a 59 year old woman with an ailing wrist (of which I have no knowledge, anyway) is not someone I would give my seat up for, especially when there are available seats in the back. Yeah, but you’re a meanoldlady - not a young bratty one. They should start by not sitting in the reserved seats until those are the last ones available -or, potentially, if there are plenty of empties and they know the route well enough to know they are getting off at the ‘next’ stop. Similar to the handicap stalls in the bathroom - you don’t use them until there are no other choices available. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/104 "2013-11-18T19:49:43Z")
2 sassy black girl in one row. Woody Allen, and OJ Simpson in the other. Thank goodness that white middle aged saint was there to save the elderly 59 year old. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/105 "2013-11-18T19:53:53Z")
I wonder if a wrist issue is enough to enable you to park in a handicapped spot, cause that’d be stupid too. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/106 "2013-11-18T19:54:55Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Yeah, but you’re a meanoldlady - not a young bratty one. > > They should start by not sitting in the reserved seats until those are the last ones available -or, potentially, if there are plenty of empties and they know the route well enough to know they are getting off at the ‘next’ stop. > > Similar to the handicap stalls in the bathroom - you don’t use them until there are no other choices available. She may be mean, but she’s not old and she is certainly not…well you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/107 "2013-11-18T20:14:30Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > “I’ll go with _Threads That Didn’t Go As The OP Expected_ for $100, Alex.” > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16856491#post16856491](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16856491#post16856491) Excellent! [I’ll see that and go all in.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=685370)😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/108 "2013-11-18T20:36:33Z")
Under 60, hell under 70, and you call yourself “elderly”? Making that “maybe they’re pregnant comment” and you don’t see yourself as racist? Really? The more appropriate way this could have gone down: “Excuse me, miss. I have a badly injured wrist and making it to the back of the bus is very difficult for me, what with having to carry my bag in my good hand and all. Would mind being so kind as to let me sit here, please?” Now they could have still reacted badly. And if so, then deal. If they were in handicapped seats (you did not specify that) then put you bag down between your feet and hang on with your good hand right next to them, very slightly invading their personal space. If not then ask someone else. No one is obligated to do you a favor. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/109 "2013-11-18T21:21:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Making that “maybe they’re pregnant comment” and you don’t see yourself as racist? I’ll defend that one… slightly. (I’m not going to defend the OP overall). The girls were sitting in a section reserved for “elderly, handicapped and pregnant persons.” Ergo, a crack about pregnancy isn’t necessarily racist when the girls are sitting in the pregnancy section. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/110 "2013-11-18T21:27:00Z")
I can see how a wrist injury would prevent me from holding on to a strap, because buses tend to jerk when coming to a stop and starting, and that necessitates grabbing onto the seat with your free hand. And I’m able-bodied with good balance. On the other hand, a wrist injury doesn’t prevent me from moving 5 or 6 rows back. And if I was that feeble that moving 15 feet was an ordeal, I’d expect the bus driver to intervene and kick people out of the handicapped section. I also agree that the request wasn’t necessarily racist, but the follow-up comment certainly didn’t help your cause. And finally, I cannot recall the last time I got into a battle of words with a stranger. If it started becoming a monthly or quarterly occurrence, I’d begin to wonder if the common denominator was me. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/111 "2013-11-18T21:27:26Z")
Do you have a cane? Does it have a sword in it? Can it be used as a club? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/112 "2013-11-18T21:58:36Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Take race out of the equation, and a 59 year old woman with an ailing wrist (of which I have no knowledge, anyway) is not someone I would give my seat up for, especially when there are available seats in the back. See, I would, but I wouldn’t do it without being asked. I’m a 46-year-old white female, and I don’t offer my seat to anyone unless they are obviously QUITE a bit older than me (truly elderly, not 59, good lord!) or obviously could use it (for instance, if they have a cane, are hugely pregnant, or have a baby or young child with them). BUT if someone asked me nicely and explained why they needed the seat, I would give it up pretty much no matter what the reason. Definitely if someone said they had a wrist injury that made it hard for them to hang on, I would. My strong suspicion was that in the OP’s case, it might have been in the asking. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/113 "2013-11-18T22:01:38Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > My strong suspicion was that in the OP’s case, it might have been in the asking. Well, you would say that, what with being adopted and therefore a budding serial killer! (I think you were involved in those crazy threads with me and the OP.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/114 "2013-11-18T22:14:32Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > … The girls were sitting in a section reserved for “elderly, handicapped and pregnant persons.” … Maybe I am missing it, but I don’t see that in the op or in her follow-up comments. It could be, but there is no mention that these young women were in seats set aside for the elderly, handicapped or pregnant … she asked them because they were “the youngest looking adults” not because of the seats they were in. And even if so … having just been accused of being a racist is a time to be aware of how what you say may be heard. Having just been interpreted as asking the Black riders to move to the back of the bus so she could sit her White middle aged (not elderly, sorry) tush down in the front, is not the time to say that. If she did not mean it like that then she is a bit akin to Tobias from Arrested Development - how can she not hear herself? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/115 "2013-11-18T22:16:46Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Under 60, hell under 70, and you call yourself “elderly”? Making that “maybe they’re pregnant comment” and you don’t see yourself as racist? > > Really? And you jump to racism when the seats that the women were in are reserved for the handicapped or **pregnant**. Really? There are so many people ready to jump on the ‘YOU ARE A RACIST!!!?!?!?!’ thing with no evidence of any racist behavior on the OPs side. It is, quite frankly, disgusting. It trivializes real racial issues, makes it harder to talk about real issues and also makes real incidents of racism easier to blow off. And, read the damned thread title. It straight out says: > [@](#): > > Asking an African-American woman to give up a bus seat in the \*\*handicapped \*\*section makes me racist? Bolding added for the reading impaired. Slee ---
**Author:** ![James\_Toothpaste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@James\_Toothpaste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Toothpaste)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/116 "2013-11-18T22:18:13Z")
If you act differently for different races, you’re racist. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/117 "2013-11-18T22:23:39Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > See, I would, but I wouldn’t do it without being asked. I’m a 46-year-old white female, and I don’t offer my seat to anyone unless they are obviously QUITE a bit older than me (truly elderly, not 59, good lord!) or obviously could use it (for instance, if they have a cane, are hugely pregnant, or have a baby or young child with them). BUT if someone asked me nicely and explained why they needed the seat, I would give it up pretty much no matter what the reason. Definitely if someone said they had a wrist injury that made it hard for them to hang on, I would. My strong suspicion was that in the OP’s case, it might have been in the asking. Well right. I didn’t mean to suggest there is no circumstance under which I would give up my seat for someone who is 59. I’d give up my seat for a teenager with a cane without needing to be asked, but someone who’s in her late 50s just asking me to get up? No, go to an available seat like everyone else. Had she explained her wrist injury, sure, I’d have gotten up. I’d have thought it was stupid that she couldn’t somehow shuffle to the back and sit because of her wrist, but hey, she’s got issues and I don’t, so I’d just move. The OP’s story is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/118 "2013-11-18T22:24:28Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, you would say that, what with being adopted and therefore a budding serial killer! > > (I think you were involved in those crazy threads with me and the OP.) Yes, yes I was! May have a little something to do with how I imagine the conversation went on the bus. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/119 "2013-11-18T22:35:06Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Well right. I didn’t mean to suggest there is no circumstance under which I would give up my seat for someone who is 59. I’d give up my seat for a teenager with a cane without needing to be asked, but someone who’s in her late 50s just asking me to get up? No, go to an available seat like everyone else. Had she explained her wrist injury, sure, I’d have gotten up. I’d have thought it was stupid that she couldn’t somehow shuffle to the back and sit because of her wrist, but hey, she’s got issues and I don’t, so I’d just move. **The OP’s story is stupid.** Can’t disagree with the bolded. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/120 "2013-11-18T22:37:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Maybe I am missing it, but I don’t see that in the op or in her follow-up comments. Page 1, post #50. > [@Annie X-mas](#): > > The sign clearly states that the seats are reserved for “elderly, handicapped and pregnant persons.” Since they felt entitled to sit there, I thought that would be a good reason for it [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=7)