# Asking an African-American woman to give up a bus seat in the handicapped section makes me racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137 "2013-11-17T19:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/121 "2013-11-18T22:37:44Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > She also describes herself as elderly and was apparently born in 1954, according to one of Zeldar’s age tabulating threads. I have trouble considering “not yet eligible for SSA early retirement” as elderly. Holy shiat, she needs to be in a nursing home, not doing random throw downs on the racist bus. > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Take race out of the equation, and a 59 year old woman with an ailing wrist (of which I have no knowledge, anyway) is not someone I would give my seat up for, especially when there are available seats in the back. Not to mention that she singled out _black_ women to ask to move in the first place. How were they supposed to know that the reason she picked them out in the first place was because they were the youngest riders on the bus? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/122 "2013-11-18T22:55:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, you would say that, what with being adopted and therefore a budding serial killer! > > (I think you were involved in those crazy threads with me and the OP.) In fairness to the OP, she apologized quite graciously for the adoption/serial killer thing. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/123 "2013-11-18T23:05:42Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Take race out of the equation, and a 59 year old woman with an ailing wrist (of which I have no knowledge, anyway) is not someone I would give my seat up for, especially when there are available seats in the back. I’ve seen some damned decrepit 60somethings, and I’ve seen some remarkably healthy 70/80 somethings. Having read the whole thread, I’m torn. The OP said the kids were in the handicapped section, (at least her subject heading did), and she said she merely asked if she could sit down, that she didn’t tell them to sit in the back. As a person with non-visible handicap issues also, I understand the pain and discomfort involved in trying to balance on public transport, so I can understand someone not wanting to try and make their way down the aisle of a bus while it’s in motion with only one good hand (it’s all fine and dandy if the bus only jerks and sways toward the side of your good hand, what if you have to try and stop a fall if the bus swerves the other way?) That said, if this is a case similar to the umbrella case, then I’m afraid I’ll have to side with the cons in this instance. You don’t want to be one of those cranky “get off my lawn” older persons. There are a lot of ways to get around the circumstances you describe, other than being forced into confrontations. You can avoid having to potentially cause a scene, for instance next time, maybe you can simply ask the bus driver for help FIRST and let him do the dirty work? At the very least, ask him to let you get seated (in the back if need be) before jackrabbiting away from the bus stop. Some people are just waiting for the chance to scream “racist”. It doesn’t necessarily mean these girls were, they could have just been snotty teen girls, and this may have simply been their snark du jour. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/124 "2013-11-18T23:09:54Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > In fairness to the OP, she apologized quite graciously for the adoption/serial killer thing. Linky-poo?? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/125 "2013-11-18T23:21:57Z")
She \*might \*be (non-visibly) disabled to the point where she needs a seat in the front of the bus, but she’s not elderly, so if she said that to the people she’s asking to move, it just makes it look like she’s making the whole thing up. And if she didn’t tell them any reason why she thought they should move, then of course they’re going to be like wtf? Given her history of being a complete nutjob, I can only assume she came off as a complete nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/126 "2013-11-18T23:26:00Z")
I had no idea “pregnant” was a racist term. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/127 "2013-11-18T23:39:33Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > I had no idea “pregnant” was a racist term. Ignorance fought. Some people take things in context sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/128 "2013-11-18T23:43:26Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > And you jump to racism when the seats that the women were in are reserved for the handicapped or **pregnant**. > > Really? > > There are so many people ready to jump on the ‘YOU ARE A RACIST!!!?!?!?!’ thing with no evidence of any racist behavior on the OPs side. It is, quite frankly, disgusting. It trivializes real racial issues, makes it harder to talk about real issues and also makes real incidents of racism easier to blow off. > > And, read the damned thread title. It straight out says: > > Bolding added for the reading impaired. > > Slee > [@armedmonkey](#): > > Page 1, post #50. Do I get to ask people to move now that I am recognizably disabled? 🙂 Sorry that I missed that and instead focused on her explanation of how she chose to ask those particular individuals in post#5: > [@](#): > > I always ask the youngest looking adults. Still a Tobiasoid thing to say in that context. Okay maybe not meant as racist but really really dumb. General principle here. It is reasonable to ask people to get up from handicapped seating when you are handicapped. If your age is under 70, let alone under 60 (!), claiming rights to the seat on the count of your being _elderly_ is ridiculous. At 59 you are not elderly and being “older than” does not entitle you to anything. If you have no visible handicap then such a reqest for someone to move should include an explanation that you indeed do have a disability even if it is not easlily visible. If someone still refuses to move engaging in a conflict about it is stupid. There were other people to ask. A short comment that handicapped seating is for the handicapped and that Black or White you are supposed to vacate those seats if someone disabled requests it and then quickly asking the next person was all it took. Instead she did not ask anyone else; she got the bus driver involved, trying to get these particular people to move. Then, according to her story, a White woman got up for her. On preview … **TBG** - these were\* teenaged \*African American girls - yes, I would hear “well I guess they must be pregnant” as racist. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/129 "2013-11-18T23:47:50Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > She also describes herself as elderly and was apparently born in 1954, according to one of Zeldar’s age tabulating threads. I have trouble considering “not yet eligible for SSA early retirement” as elderly. Jesus! I was on board with the ‘she’s elderly - she should get a seat regardless’ crowd until I read this. I was born in 1953 and now way am I friggin’ elderly. Hell, I stand up for other people on the bus all the time. Elderly. Hmmmph. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/130 "2013-11-18T23:53:32Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Yes, yes I was! May have a little something to do with how I imagine the conversation went on the bus. 😛 Yeah, I have a feeling that those of us who have had such conversations with her have a little bit of a different impression of how she probably comes off. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/131 "2013-11-19T00:02:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > On preview .. **TBG** - these were\* teenaged \*African American girls - yes, I would hear “well I guess they must be pregnant” as racist. I don’t see why. _You_ are the only one that is leaping from “sixteen and pregnant” to racism. You seem to have a hangup here. What makes you assume that any reference to teenage pregnancy has to be a racial thing? Granted, the snark would have been funnier if they were guys. “He must be pregnant.. _snort_”. But it still works because it’s based on what the sign says and who the section is reserved for. However, I am certainly not defending **Annie X-mas**. I think she’s self entitled as fuck. I just don’t think that a case can be made that a crack about pregnancy directed at people sitting in a section clearly reserved for pregnant people is racist. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/132 "2013-11-19T00:06:21Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Ha, that’s right. And she also finds it unreasonable when another person on the bus doesn’t like her looking over their shoulder at what they’re doing on their phone. I remember the umbrella one, but not that one. Link? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/133 "2013-11-19T00:09:12Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > In fairness to the OP, she apologized quite graciously for the adoption/serial killer thing. No…IIRC, she agreed not to state that adoption causes people to become serial killers, but she did not actually apologize. Course, I didn’t ask for nor expect her to, I just wanted her to stop spreading bad information. So, we’re cool. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/134 "2013-11-19T00:14:00Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > _You_ are the only one that is leaping from “sixteen and pregnant” to racism. … Except for the others who read it the same way in post 20 and 35. Hey YMMV. It sounds that way to me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/135 "2013-11-19T00:17:42Z")
We could ask the OP what she meant. Maybe she’ll accidentally reveal more information that will keep the thread going for a couple of more pages. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/136 "2013-11-19T00:25:27Z")
You are guilty of Speaking While White. Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/137 "2013-11-19T00:25:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I remember the umbrella one, but not that one. Link? Post 85 > [@handsomeharry](#): > > You are guilty of Speaking While White. Nuff said. That must be why that commonly happens to white people who speak. Oh no wait. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/138 "2013-11-19T00:32:48Z")
Well, \*\*handsomeharry \*\*is white, and he spoke, and I’m going to go ahead and say he’s probably a racist. So maybe he’s onto something. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/139 "2013-11-19T00:39:44Z")
I really don’t know what to say. Do you people not realize that sitting in the back of the bus is an idiom for discrimination? How can you have lived in this country and not know that? How can you be surprised when someone points it out? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137/140 "2013-11-19T00:55:19Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Some people take things in context sometimes. And some people make up context so that they can further their agenda. **Loach** , where EXACTLY does she say she asked them to move ‘to the back of the bus?’ Or are you just using that term because you know it is loaded and are trying to make a case for racism where none exists? Slee [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-an-african-american-woman-to-give-up-a-bus-seat-in-the-handicapped-section-makes-me-racist/674137.md?page=8)