# Asking permission to speak freely - really a thing in current military practice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170 "2014-09-11T12:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/21 "2014-09-11T19:52:48Z")
One of my military acquaintances said much the same thing many other people are reporting here. In his experience, the phrase “permission to speak freely” was never once uttered literally. However, people had a variety of contextual, subtle ways to indicate “This is a time to follow orders and just get it done now” vs “Feel free to share your input so that we can benefit from everyone’s ideas.” They didn’t have to say it because expressions and tone of voice were sufficient. Subtle doesn’t always translate well in Hollywood, though. My friend did add, though, that he felt like the trope stemmed from a general Hollywood/liberal anti-authority bias. That is, the idea that the government/military is some sort of unreasonable authoritarian entity determined to turn people into automatons who only follow orders. Thus, a liberal screenwriter with no military experience might assume that teamwork and brainstorming are foreign ideas to military personnel and that you’d somehow have to get permission to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/22 "2014-09-11T19:59:16Z")
I can see R. Lee Ermey explaining in a colorful manner that the military is not a debating society. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/23 "2014-09-11T20:54:59Z")
Just FYI, this is how I begin my message when I have to PM a moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/24 "2014-09-11T21:10:19Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > If something comes up during a briefing that is either not appropriate to discuss in a group setting (due to privacy, or something else) we will often say “Let’s continue this offline…” > > I have often been blunt and honest to make sure there is clear understanding of the impact - but not usually disrepectful. There is a huge difference. You can call an idea/plan/course of action misguided and idiotic, but you shouldn’t call _the planner_ idiotic. Exactly. I have been both on the officer side as a company XO and on the enlisted side as a !st Sergeant (don’t ask, it’s not as interesting as you might think). It is the job of the XO or the 1SG to help the commander reach the correct decision. As you get further up the command structure commanders have staff that they expect to speak freely and give their opinions. Someone who is completely autocratic will rarely have a long career. But as you say it is understood that it must all be done with respect and with the proper military bearing. Not to say that tempers may flair but that should be taken care of behind closed doors. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/25 "2014-09-11T21:16:44Z")
Never have heard it in 28 years in the Navy (14 of which were in the Pentagon). Nor have I ever heard “with all due respect.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/26 "2014-09-11T21:45:57Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Never have heard it in 28 years in the Navy (14 of which were in the Pentagon). > > Nor have I ever heard “with all due respect.” With all due respect always makes me think of [Dom Irrera](http://www.cc.com/video-clips/jwxg4r/comedy-central-presents-honesty). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/27 "2014-09-12T02:09:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > My father once said of this trope that if people are not speaking freely anyway (respectfully) then its a failure of leadership. Sort of like the (also often seen in fiction media regarding the military) frequent reiteration of “THAT was an order!” If you’re offering input to your superiors you had better know what you’re talking about, be sure about it, and give them your best, most complete and truthful assesment of the situation. None of which needs to be said in a manner disrespectful, offensive or insubordinate, or that questions their authority. > [@dracoi](#): > > My friend did add, though, that he felt like the trope stemmed from a general Hollywood/liberal anti-authority bias.[…] Thus, a liberal screenwriter with no military experience might assume that teamwork and brainstorming are foreign ideas to military personnel and that you’d somehow have to get permission to be honest. Or they are more familiar with the workplace environment _at the studios or agencies_, where you \*\*\*can \*\*\*imagine asshat executives and primadonna directors not wanting to hear anything contrary to their made mind from those lower in the credits. With Trek in particular it would be interesting to see how often the tropes were used in, say, 1960s TOS Trek (which ended just as the nation was souring on Vietnam) vs. 1980s-90s TNG/DS9 Trek. Some of the 1966-69 writers may have been veterans, like bomber pilot Roddenberry, but the fraction probably gets far smaller by the late 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/28 "2014-09-12T02:26:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Clancy’s observations of the military were nearly all second hand (though his books are mostly meticulously researched.) I always hear that about his research, yet every time he mentions something I actually happen to know about he screws up. Seems to be a pretty lousy researcher. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/29 "2014-09-12T02:37:33Z")
I said it once in 24 years in the military. I, an E-6 at the time, was being chewed out by a Colonel and tried to defend myself. He told me to shut the hell up and listen. After about 5 minutes of ripping me a new one, he ran out of steam. That’s when I said ‘it’. He said “yes” so I let him have it. Both barrels. He tried to defend himself and I said “Oh no Colonel - my turn now!” Boy that was fun! 1. The Colonel had been seriously misinformed about what had happened in the incident that caused the ‘conversation’. He apologized once he heard my side of the story. 2. I was not in his chain of command. Sure he could have called my boss to cause me some grief, but I think my boss would have backed me up. Actually the Colonel SHOULD have called my boss first instead of chewing my ass. The Colonel and I got along really well after that. I might have won a little respect from him even. ---
**Author:** ![sunstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunstone/32/3372_2.png) [@sunstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunstone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/30 "2014-09-12T02:50:47Z")
My superiors in the AF expected that I would give them my opinion if it lay within my area of expertise, and they listened carefully. I expected my subordinates to give me the truth (albeit tactfully) if they disagreed or had knowledge that I lacked. Of course items of discussion were almost always factual; however, on a couple of occasions personal matters or style were brought up. In that case I generally closed the door and discussed frankly my subordinate’s “shortcomings” I would expect that my superiors would have done the same thing if needed. Never encountered “permission to speak freely” except in books and films. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/31 "2014-09-12T03:11:53Z")
There are some “code phrases” in the different branches of the Armed Forces that can be used in certain situations. For example, the phrase “We’d really rather not do that, Sir.” said by a member of the Army Corps of Engineers to a non-CoA planner type, is accepted as a polite way of saying “Are you out of your fucking mind, General?” And enlisted instructors at the parachute school are known to use the phrase “Captain, I’d appreciate it if you’d do 25 pushups now, Sir!” I did use “with all due respect” once. On a break during a [del]mission[/del] nature hike, I told my platoon sergeant that he was a REMF. As his face changed from white to red, before the explosion, I added “Sergeant, I’ve been on point for the last 2 hours, and with all due respect, to the man on point, everyone else on the [del]patrol[/del] nature hike is a rear echelon mother fucker.” One he started breathing again, he nodded, briefly smiled, and transferred me to the rear. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/32 "2014-09-12T04:36:39Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I have often been blunt and honest to make sure there is clear understanding of the impact - but not usually disrepectful. There is a huge difference. **You can call an idea/plan/course of action misguided and idiotic, but you shouldn’t call _the planner_ idiotic.** In other words, SDMB rules apply! ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/33 "2014-09-12T05:02:47Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I always hear that about his research, yet every time he mentions something I actually happen to know about he screws up. Seems to be a pretty lousy researcher. Depends on Clancy’s area of interest. If it’s something he is interested in (like descriptions of weapon systems) he does well. Otherwise, it’s hit and miss, mostly miss. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/34 "2014-09-12T15:40:40Z")
I ran this by my CO (Dad): in 28.5 years as a Marine, he never heard either phrase used (he didn’t do 30 years as he didn’t want to make it a career). Here’s a situation where I can see a “With all due respect” being used: _Captain, it is I, Ensign Pulver, and I just threw your stinkin’ palm tree overboard! Now what’s all this crud about no movie tonight?_ ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/35 "2014-09-12T15:48:40Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > There are some “code phrases” in the different branches of the Armed Forces that can be used in certain situations. For example, the phrase “We’d really rather not do that, Sir.” said by a member of the Army Corps of Engineers to a non-CoA planner type, is accepted as a polite way of saying “Are you out of your fucking mind, General?” And enlisted instructors at the parachute school are known to use the phrase “Captain, I’d appreciate it if you’d do 25 pushups now, Sir!” > > I did use “with all due respect” once. On a break during a [del]mission[/del] nature hike, I told my platoon sergeant that he was a REMF. As his face changed from white to red, before the explosion, I added “Sergeant, I’ve been on point for the last 2 hours, and with all due respect, to the man on point, everyone else on the [del]patrol[/del] nature hike is a rear echelon mother fucker.” > > One he started breathing again, he nodded, briefly smiled, and transferred me to the rear. 🙂 That made my morning, once I cleaned the coffee up. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/36 "2014-09-12T16:34:10Z")
I have never said this nor heard it said. At the same time, I have had a conversation with a senior NCO regarding placement of a particular piece of equipment, but I took the tone of Gee whiz, Mr Superior, but I just back from school about this and they said… The senior NCO dismissed my opinion and that was that. I had spoken as freely as I was willing to in the midst of a fairly hairy situation. Any idea of a debate is utterly stupid and doesn’t happen if the superior is any kind of military leader. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/37 "2014-09-12T23:09:59Z")
Twenty three years in the Navy, and like most everybody else, never heard the phrases. A good officer/NCO will allow you to present your side of an issue. The ones that just started yelling never had anyone’s respect in the first place, and everyone knew that they would not be treated fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/38 "2014-09-12T23:36:38Z")
In my USCG career, I heard “with all due respect”. The one that sticks in my mind is a number of people were having problems with the Deputy Group Commander, a O-3. At a meeting a Master Chief voiced these problems. The Group Commander, an O-5, said it was not his place to say this. The MC, a tough old salt, fired back “With all due respect, Sir, not only is it my place but as Command Enlisted Advisor, it is my duty to report that a lot of people are having problems with this man”. At least this is what the Master Chief’s wife, an E-6, told me. And the O-3 did improve quite a bit after that. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/39 "2014-09-12T23:57:56Z")
I seem to remember the phrase being used in _A Few Good Men_ by Cuba Gooding Jr.'s character, a Marine Corporal accused of murder when conversing with his JAG lawyer, a Lieutenant played by Tom Cruise. Fiction, obviously, but I could see why a conversation between a lawyer and his client could necessitate a special disregard for the rules that normally set the tone for officer/enlisted interactions. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/40 "2014-09-13T15:29:05Z")
I seem to recall some Robert Heinlein novel–I don’t remember the title–in which an XO asks that question and gets slammed by his captain, who says it’s the XO’s damn job to speak freely. > [@skdo23](#): > > I seem to remember the phrase being used in _A Few Good Men_ by Cuba Gooding Jr.'s character, a Marine Corporal accused of murder when conversing with his JAG lawyer, a Lieutenant played by Tom Cruise. Fiction, obviously, but I could see why a conversation between a lawyer and his client could necessitate a special disregard for the rules that normally set the tone for officer/enlisted interactions. Cuba Gooding Jr. was not in A Few Good Men, as might be inferred from the fact that the movie does not suck. You’re thinking of Wolfgang Bodison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170.md?page=3)