# Asking permission to speak freely - really a thing in current military practice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170 "2014-09-11T12:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/41 "2014-09-13T16:01:18Z")
I’ve been in both the military and middle management. You never preface a remark to a superior with “permission to speak freely.” You preface that remark with “of course, as you know…” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/42 "2014-09-13T21:48:15Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > You preface that remark with “of course, as you know…” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/43 "2014-09-13T23:06:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I seem to recall some Robert Heinlein novel–I don’t remember the title–in which an XO asks that question and gets slammed by his captain, who says it’s the XO’s damn job to speak freely. > > Cuba Gooding Jr. was not in A Few Good Men, as might be inferred from the fact that the movie does not suck. You’re thinking of Wolfgang Bodison. Doh!!!:smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/44 "2014-09-14T00:01:37Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I seem to recall some Robert Heinlein novel–I don’t remember the title–in which an XO asks that question and gets slammed by his captain, who says it’s the XO’s damn job to speak freely. > > Cuba Gooding Jr. was not in A Few Good Men, as might be inferred from the fact that the movie does not suck. You’re thinking of Wolfgang Bodison. Cuba Gooding Jr was in A Few Good Men- but you are correct that wasn’t his line. He had a wee little part - Cpl Carl Hammaker (according to IMDB). Movie still doesn’t suck. One of my favorites. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/45 "2014-09-14T02:39:05Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > I ran this by my CO (Dad): in 28.5 years as a Marine, he never heard either phrase used (he didn’t do 30 years as he didn’t want to make it a career)… 😕 I might be being whooshed here… Am I? Otherwise…😕 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/46 "2014-09-14T02:47:12Z")
With all due respect, I’ve always thought “with all due respect” was a fairly common figure of speech when you were in a position where you needed to correct your boss. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/47 "2014-09-14T03:19:04Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > In other words, SDMB rules apply! I dunno, wasn’t something as anodyne as the referenced-as-good thing, above, called a personal insult by one of the mods, or something, just recently? ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/48 "2014-09-14T04:24:42Z")
I never asked for permission to speak freely, but I was given permission once by my CO to do so. Shortly afterwards I was transferred out of the unit. Given that was the intention it worked out. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/49 "2014-09-14T10:18:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 > I might be being whooshed here… > Am I? > Otherwise…😕 Whooshed by which part? Because I’d mentioned I was Navy and Dad was a Marine, so how could he be my CO? In the colloquialism of military-brat speak, in the Table of Organization of the Family, Dad is the CO (while Mom **outranks** Dad and is the Commanding General). (I remember the day Dad put me on his knee and said “ **dba Fred** , son, you can do whatever you want to when you grow up. But don’t go into the Marine Corps, and the Army isn’t any better. _Now get the hell off my knee_, you’re 22 years old!”) Or whooshed by his not doing 30 years as he didn’t want to make it a career. Why? Short answer: He said it wasn’t fun anymore. Long answer (and bragging on Dad): He’d gone from a private (E-1) to full Colonel (O-6), infantry to aviator. He landed at Inchon as a motor transport officer and bummed a pinch of pipe tobacco from Chesty Puller at the Chosin Reservoir. Then he was selected for flight school, earned his wings and went back to Korea flying fighters (F9Fs with VMA-311, just after Ted Williams left). He transitioned to helicopters (which he states is the _real_ flying) but with seniority came less flight time (a few helo missions in Vietnam) (but did rack up the hours on the station R4-D/C-117D [50833] while CO of MCAS Iwakuni). He knew his next set of orders would be to the Pentagon (which he’d managed to avoid) and he knew he wouldn’t pick up General. So it wasn’t fun anymore. For fun, after he retired, he flew a Cenessa for the owner of a cattle feedlot (and went on a roundup). Later he became the airport manager at Yuma International Airport, a joint-use facility with MCAS Yuma (where he’d been stationed), then the airport manager at the Columbia MO airport (where the ground crew let him driver the snow plow & assorted yellow gear). He got a kick out of it when I did the calculation and said he’d been retired from the Corps longer than he’d been in. When people thank him for his service, he thanks them for letting him fly and the monthly check 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/50 "2014-09-14T14:43:31Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I’ve been in both the military and middle management. You never preface a remark to a superior with “permission to speak freely.” > > You preface that remark with “of course, as you know…” Or “As I’m sure you remember…” which is code for “As I expect you’ve forgotten…”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/51 "2014-09-15T02:37:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > …Cuba Gooding Jr. was not in A Few Good Men, as might be inferred from the fact that the movie does not suck… Objection! He _was_ in the movie, as noted above; also, _Jerry Maguire, Outbreak_ and _Rat Race_, all of which he was also in, IMHO do not suck. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/52 "2014-09-15T02:53:21Z")
My brother was Army 1968-1993 (or 4?) and he never heard it said or heard of it being said. Beloved Brother was an officer and retired Full Bird so he was in the right spots to catch it. Our Uncle was brown-shoe AAC from like 1930 to 1960. His claim was he heard of it being done in the very early days when the Army was almost small enough for everyone to have crossed paths one place or another but after say 1940 it would have just been unthinkable. Unc was your typical lifer sgt. so he was in a good spot to observe from as well. After say 1941, you were either close enough with your superior to just speak or you kept your trap shut. (I brought the subject up ages ago at a family reunion because I had heard it used in countless shows and movies and I was curious as well) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/53 "2014-09-15T18:05:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Objection! He _was_ in the movie, as noted above; also, _Jerry Maguire, Outbreak_ and _Rat Race_, all of which he was also in, IMHO do not suck. What have I told you about bothering me with facts? > [@Poysyn](#): > > Cuba Gooding Jr was in A Few Good Men- but you are correct that wasn’t his line. > > He had a wee little part - Cpl Carl Hammaker (according to IMDB). Movie still doesn’t suck. One of my favorites. I will grant that Gooding’s presence in the movie was not long enough to generate noticeable sucking, and as Tom Cruise was not yet at the sucking phase of his career, overall it was not harmed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/54 "2014-09-15T18:13:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Objection! He _was_ in the movie, as noted above; also, _Jerry Maguire, Outbreak_ and _Rat Race_, all of which he was also in, IMHO do not suck. He could have been in AFI’s entire Top 100 but it still wouldn’t make _Pearl Harbor_ forgivable. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/55 "2014-09-15T18:49:38Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > Or whooshed by his not doing 30 years as he didn’t want to make it a career. > Why? Short answer: He said it wasn’t fun anymore. > Long answer (and bragging on Dad): He’d gone from a private (E-1) to full Colonel (O-6), infantry to aviator. He landed at Inchon as a motor transport officer and bummed a pinch of pipe tobacco from Chesty Puller at the Chosin Reservoir. Then he was selected for flight school, earned his wings and went back to Korea flying fighters (F9Fs with VMA-311, just after Ted Williams left). He transitioned to helicopters (which he states is the _real_ flying) but with seniority came less flight time (a few helo missions in Vietnam) (but did rack up the hours on the station R4-D/C-117D [50833] while CO of MCAS Iwakuni). He knew his next set of orders would be to the Pentagon (which he’d managed to avoid) and he knew he wouldn’t pick up General. So it wasn’t fun anymore. That sounds a bit like my dad’s thinking in the Washington State Patrol. By the time he retired, he had 36 years in (he had more seniority than anybody else in the WSP), was the equivalent of what a corporation would call “Regional Manager” (he was in charge of Commercial Vehicle Enforcement for pretty much all of North Central Washington), and was first in line for promotion to the head of his department for the entire state. But he kept turning down the promotion because it would have meant moving to the State Capitol and playing politics. > [@](#): > > Later he became the airport manager at Yuma International Airport, a joint-use facility with MCAS Yuma (where he’d been stationed) And hey, Yuma was where _my_ dad was stationed (and where I was born), 1963-67. Dad only did 4 years, reaching E-6, and worked as a “scope dope” (air traffic controller). It sounds like your dad and mine may have been in Yuma at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/56 "2014-09-15T18:54:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He could have been in AFI’s entire Top 100 but it still wouldn’t make _Pearl Harbor_ forgivable. For all of _Pearl Harbor_’s many faults, Cuba’s performance wasn’t one of them. ISTR he was fine in a small part as Dorie Miller: [Doris Miller - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Miller) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/57 "2014-09-15T19:18:45Z")
His performance was fine. The part where he and Ben Affleck and the blond guy shot down the entire IJN air arm triplehandedly was just too stupid for words. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/58 "2014-09-15T19:25:59Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > I seem to remember the phrase being used in _A Few Good Men_ by Cuba Gooding Jr.'s character, a Marine Corporal accused of murder when conversing with his JAG lawyer, a Lieutenant played by Tom Cruise. Fiction, obviously, but I could see why a conversation between a lawyer and his client could necessitate a special disregard for the rules that normally set the tone for officer/enlisted interactions. While the fact of Gooding’s presence in the movie has been settled, it should be noted that HE doesn’t say this. He is asked a question by either Tom Cruise or Kevin Bacon (on the stand) and hesitates to answer. He is then told (IIRC) “it’s okay Corporal, you can tell the truth.” after which he answers. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170/59 "2014-09-15T21:31:04Z")
I’m assuming, despite the fact the “permission to speak freely…” thing doesn’t happen - whether it’s military or business, or a married couple in front of the children - the number one rule is: Don’t undermine the boss in front of the troops. When you point out a superior’s error in private, or among equals, fine. When the underlings see the higher ups arguing it’s not good for anyone. Quite often the contemplation during or after an argument will be - why did he say that? Was he just giving constructive criticism, or was he trying to belittle his boss in front of his subordinates? It’s the same idea as using the phrase “With all due respect…” It really means “this is going to sound disrespectful…” usually because it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-permission-to-speak-freely-really-a-thing-in-current-military-practice/698170.md?page=2)