# Asking to borrow tools at a bike shop **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171 "2015-07-14T21:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/21 "2015-07-15T00:42:46Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bwahahaahha. This would come as quite a surprise to all the women at 5’ tall racing non step through bikes. Like my Wife for instance. Well, she’s 5’1". > > Eh. Depends on what ‘wrench’ your friend was looking for I suppose. But if it was just a tire tool (bikes not bought at Walmart don’t need a ‘wrench’ to take the wheel off), I’d call it a bad day on the guy at the shop. _Now_ there are plenty of companies selling these bikes, and every major brand has these options available. Anamen went to a vintage bike shop - totally different thing. It was not a tire tool it was a wrench, and he was standing right next to a sign that said “please do not ask to borrow tools” according to his wife’s version of events. ETA: “Oh vintage - missed that part” - missed that part:D ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/22 "2015-07-15T00:46:13Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > bikes not bought at Walmart don’t need a ‘wrench’ to take the wheel off That’s not necessarily true. Many commuters here replace the quick releases with a nut that requires a wrench to remove. It’s easier than running a cable through both wheels every time you lock up. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/23 "2015-07-15T00:46:13Z")
On a Saturday afternoon. In the middle of summer. In a downtown, high traffic store. I kid you not. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/24 "2015-07-15T00:47:30Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > That’s not necessarily true. Many commuters here replace the quick releases with a nut that requires a wrench to remove. It’s easier than running a cable through both wheels every time you lock up. His bike was a Vilano - fixed gear. It needed a wrench. Fixed gear bikes (very commonly used in the city) always need a wrench - the torque is too much for QR. Also, many of the fancy urban bikes use a bolt. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/25 "2015-07-15T00:50:30Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > That’s not necessarily true. Many commuters here replace the quick releases with a nut that requires a wrench to remove. It’s easier than running a cable through both wheels every time you lock up. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/26 "2015-07-15T00:52:45Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > It was not a tire tool it was a wrench, and he was standing right next to a sign that said “please do not ask to borrow tools” according to his wife’s version of events. They preemptively told him no, he asks anyway and then he gets upset? That takes a special kind of stupid doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/27 "2015-07-15T00:59:10Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > We are just coming to be in heavy disagreement on this issue - that’s all there is to it. At 5’2" it can be _very_ difficult to find suitable vintage frame that is not a step-through, they simply did not make many frames like that until more recently. Before Terry, there was nobody focused on that part of the market, and they were able to overcome some of the design challenges (e.g… toe overlap) by using a smaller front wheel. > > I think a shop like the one you are describing is a good one - they care about making sure a customer has the right product and are not interested in selling something just to make a dollar. Ridiculous. I’ve been riding normal bikes since the '80s and the size I am comfortable riding may be larger than you might think I “should” use, but as I am the one riding the bike, isn’t my comfort the deciding factor? At that time, I was riding hundreds of miles per week, so it isn’t as if I was going to get on a too-big bike and topple over then come back complaining. The size bike I ride is my own business and pretending they were somehow protecting me from myself is obnoxious. I got a sweet pair of 1984 Peugeots off Craigslist that day, from a human being who did not act like a jackass, so my long drive was worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/28 "2015-07-15T01:02:46Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > It was not a tire tool it was a wrench, and he was standing right next to a sign that said “please do not ask to borrow tools” according to his wife’s version of events. Signs, signs! Everywhere signs. Do this. Don’t do that. Bah! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/29 "2015-07-15T01:09:08Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > His bike was a Vilano - fixed gear. Ah, say no more. He deserved all the rudeness and then some. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/30 "2015-07-15T01:12:53Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Ridiculous. I’ve been riding normal bikes since the '80s and the size I am comfortable riding may be larger than you might think I “should” use, but as I am the one riding the bike, isn’t my comfort the deciding factor? > > At that time, I was riding hundreds of miles per week, so it isn’t as if I was going to get on a too-big bike and topple over then come back complaining. The size bike I ride is my own business and pretending they were somehow protecting me from myself is obnoxious. We just have a different perspective is all. The way I see it, the shop and no one from the shop knows you personally, has never ridden with you etc. If you are not satisfied with the bike, or if it causes you injury, they may be blamed. If you think it is fine but someone else later tells you were sold a bike that is the wrong size, it could hurt the shop’s reputation. If you look at yelp reviews of various bike shops you will see every now and then something to that effect and a resulting 1 star review. For them the business risk might not be worth it; the liability of a shop does not end once the bike goes out the door. They were perfectly happy to sell a bike to you, but you were not interested in what they were willing to offer. I don’t see it really as obnoxious, and in the end it is really just a matter of personal opinion and perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/31 "2015-07-15T01:15:01Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Ah, say no more. He deserved all the rudeness and then some. 🙂 That’s harsh:eek: It is true though, that fact probably did not help his situation much - if we’re being perfectly honest. ---
**Author:** ![Onthefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de053/32.png) [@Onthefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onthefly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/32 "2015-07-15T02:00:31Z")
The store may have had the needed wrench for sale. That would explain their reluctance to lend. You want to sell products in a store. That’s why you don’t lend them. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/33 "2015-07-15T02:12:09Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Ah, say no more. He deserved all the rudeness and then some. 🙂 Yep. He’s riding a fixie? Does it have brakes? Tell us it doesn’t have brakes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/34 "2015-07-15T02:36:14Z")
It’s a Vilano - has to have brakes. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/35 "2015-07-15T03:28:35Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > We just have a different perspective is all. The way I see it, the shop and no one from the shop knows you personally, has never ridden with you etc. If you are not satisfied with the bike, or if it causes you injury, they may be blamed. If you think it is fine but someone else later tells you were sold a bike that is the wrong size, it could hurt the shop’s reputation. If you look at yelp reviews of various bike shops you will see every now and then something to that effect and a resulting 1 star review. > > For them the business risk might not be worth it; the liability of a shop does not end once the bike goes out the door. They were perfectly happy to sell a bike to you, but you were not interested in what they were willing to offer. I don’t see it really as obnoxious, and in the end it is really just a matter of personal opinion and perspective. What bike I ride or what I do with a bike I purchase is none of their business. It’s a monetary transaction and in no way was I consulting them or asking for advice or recommendation. Indeed, they did not have any bikes in the store they felt were suitable for me, and thus were not willing to sell me any. They did not sell to me because I am a woman and wanted a normal, structurally well-designed bike, not one that I could conveniently wear a skirt with. It was blatant discrimination. Do you think male children my height rode girls’ bikes back in the '80s? There have been bikes with crossbars for all sizes of people ever since that became the prevailing frame style. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/36 "2015-07-15T03:53:48Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > What bike I ride or what I do with a bike I purchase is none of their business… Sounds like it wasn’t the right bike shop for you. I personally appreciate shops that consider it to be their business to help me make the right decision, and I recognize that they are experts and might know more than me. You don’t want anyone telling you what to do. To each their own. Just find a different bike shop. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/37 "2015-07-15T04:24:28Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > They preemptively told him no, he asks anyway and then he gets upset? > That takes a special kind of stupid doesn’t it? Yes, if they’re already pissed off to the point of hanging a sign, that is pretty stupid to both ask and to take it personally. The sign changes the pissy response from potentially bad customer relations (there are nicer ways of saying no) to yeah, you got what you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/38 "2015-07-15T05:23:31Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Sounds like it wasn’t the right bike shop for you. I personally appreciate shops that consider it to be their business to help me make the right decision, and I recognize that they are experts and might know more than me. You don’t want anyone telling you what to do. > > To each their own. Just find a different bike shop. There’s a difference between giving advice and flat out telling someone what to do as well ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/39 "2015-07-15T08:23:40Z")
Maybe I go to different bike shops than almost everyone else. But, I don’t think the acquaintance was unreasonable. Especially not if he’d bought the tube there. The shops that I go to tend to be overly helpful, if anything. I can’t imagine them not letting someone use a wrench while they changed a tube. That’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171/40 "2015-07-15T11:01:44Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Do you think male children my height rode girls’ bikes back in the '80s? There have been bikes with crossbars for all sizes of people ever since that became the prevailing frame style. What are you basing this assumption on? As far as I have ever seen or experienced, it is very difficult for used bike shops to find vintage bikes of this type. As far as I have ever experienced in the industry, it is something that every second hand shop owner that I have known has experienced. When I had a shop, and sold used bikes in the beginning, I would have customers who would spend on average one or two months trying to find a bike like you are talking about. Oftentimes they would end up buying a new bike after going to at least 6 or 7 places. Basically, the fact that there is supply shortage of vintage style A frames iis something completely undisputed in the industry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asking-to-borrow-tools-at-a-bike-shop/725171.md?page=3)