# ASoIaF - Jon Snow question \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 14, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874 "2016-07-14T02:33:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/21 "2016-07-14T18:10:12Z")
Didn’t Olenna Tyrell say the Targaryen she was supposed to marry (before snagging her sister’s intended, IIRC) had silver hair? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/22 "2016-07-14T18:11:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > There are four Targaryens depicted (also Aemon, also old), and more importantly there are the dialogue references to the signification of hair color in general (as the OP mentions), and the distinction of Targaryen hair in particular. > > Is this really the first you’ve heard of this? I didn’t make it up; I thought it was as well established (narratively, if not dramatically) as Dany’s imperviousness to fire. Those are all incest babies. There’s is literally nothing to suggest that half Targaryens should have the same hair as full blooded Targaryens. There are examples in the book of the opposite. This is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/23 "2016-07-14T18:44:32Z")
Don’t forget the whole “seed is strong” thing. It might just be that the supersperm-color-perm thing is an offshoot from their normal distributed genetic characteristics, and they were tracing Robert’s lineage to see if he had it. But yeah, circumstantial as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/24 "2016-07-14T19:12:22Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And, of course, we have the books themselves. Simply ignoring them on this basis seems completely absurd. The books, and GRRM’s personal testimony, are already proven unreliable as to the show world, not just on plot points but on fantasy mechanics. If you look to the books as a guide to the show, you will be misled. (I assume this was a deliberate overall decision by the producers, and I think a good one, but that doesn’t really matter to my argument.) No, the show is a distinct work, and the show world a distinct set of (fictional) facts. Only what appears _in_ the show is properly relevant to understanding it. Of course, interpretations may still vary. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/25 "2016-07-14T19:18:56Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The books, and GRRM’s personal testimony, are already proven unreliable as to the show world, not just on plot points but on fantasy mechanics. If you look to the books as a guide to the show, you will be misled. (I assume this was a deliberate overall decision by the producers, and I think a good one, but that doesn’t really matter to my argument.) > > No, the show is a distinct work, and the show world a distinct set of (fictional) facts. Only what appears _in_ the show is properly relevant to understanding it. Of course, interpretations may still vary. Ok, well in the show 100% of the half-Targaryens shown do not have blonde hair. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/26 "2016-07-14T19:24:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Ok, well in the show 100% of the half-Targaryens shown do not have blonde hair. You mean Jon, only? Yes, that may be. But if it is, it should be addressed, explained somehow. And it damn sure better be addressed if Jon is to have fantasy Targaryen powers that even Viserys lacked. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/27 "2016-07-14T19:34:25Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > You mean Jon, only? Yes, that may be. But if it is, it should be addressed, explained somehow. And it damn sure better be addressed if Jon is to have fantasy Targaryen powers that even Viserys lacked. There’s no reason to explain it. The only way someone should think he should be blonde is by making a faulty, baseless assumption. There’s no reason to believe that the Targaryen blondeness is a dominant trait. Jon has already been burned in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/28 "2016-07-14T19:48:53Z")
Resistance to burning isn’t all that Viserys lacked. But look, I’m not going to keep at this. It was a fairly offhand comment in another thread, about an element of the show that the people I know who watch closely had all picked up on. I’ve seen it discussed elsewhere, as **TruCelt** here does–I thought it was pretty widespread. Perhaps not; interpretations vary, and that’s fine. Perhaps everything will be revealed without explanation as you say. My estimation of the show would be taken down a notch, that’s all. I imagine other people have other expectations for how various matters will be resolved; the show cannot be everything to everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/29 "2016-07-14T19:51:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Is there evidence for this in the show world? I’m not sure - but Robert Baratheon was the grandson of a Targaryen princess, hence his claiming the throne in the rebellion. So apparently Baratheon black at least is dominant over Targaryen platinum blond, just as much as it supposedly is over Lannister golden blond. However for the life of me I can’t recall if they’ve referenced that connection in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/30 "2016-07-14T19:58:35Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I can’t recall if they’ve referenced that connection in the show. I’m pretty sure that in the show Robert’s claim is purely by conquest. I would be interested if anyone could cite an episode to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/31 "2016-07-14T20:15:39Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Resistance to burning isn’t all that Viserys lacked. But look, I’m not going to keep at this. It was a fairly offhand comment in another thread, about an element of the show that the people I know who watch closely had all picked up on. I’ve seen it discussed elsewhere, as **TruCelt** here does–I thought it was pretty widespread. Perhaps not; interpretations vary, and that’s fine. Perhaps everything will be revealed without explanation as you say. My estimation of the show would be taken down a notch, that’s all. I imagine other people have other expectations for how various matters will be resolved; the show cannot be everything to everybody. So your estimation of the show is decreased because it doesn’t take time to address your completely baseless pet theory? That’s reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874/32 "2016-07-14T20:21:31Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The books, and GRRM’s personal testimony, are already proven unreliable as to the show world, not just on plot points but on fantasy mechanics. If you look to the books as a guide to the show, you will be misled. (I assume this was a deliberate overall decision by the producers, and I think a good one, but that doesn’t really matter to my argument.) > > No, the show is a distinct work, and the show world a distinct set of (fictional) facts. Only what appears _in_ the show is properly relevant to understanding it. Of course, interpretations may still vary. The thread title stated ASoIaF and the OP was asking questions from the show - it can be reasonable inferred that the OP was asking about evidence from both the books and the show (it mentioned “Martin’s world”) that can shed light on the question being asked. Therefore, I think both are fine to be used. And regardless of your opinion on the divergence of the show and books as to the story they are telling, there is nothing indicating that there is that much of divergence between the show and the books on events that happened PRIOR to Episode 1 / Chapter 1 - the only difference has been that Aemon Targaryen is Aerys II’s uncle in one and granduncle in the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asoiaf-jon-snow-question-spoilers/759874.md?page=1)