# Aspects of pop culture people seem to misunderstand **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 16, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417 "2013-01-16T20:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/161 "2013-04-20T04:49:34Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Another song example - _Chumbawamba’s_ ‘Tubthumping’ is a slam aimed at mindless binge-drinking idiots that became the bands biggest hit (by far) once it was adopted as an anthem by the very people it was meant to mock. No. “Tubthumping” is about more than _just_ drinking, but it’s not a slam on drinking. Most of the band were themselves drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/162 "2013-04-20T05:03:53Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > Bumping up… > > I’ve just come from seeing a production of Hair at the same theatre where I saw the aforementioned production of A Chorus Line. It’s occurred to me that the song “Let The Sun Shine In” is often misunderstood. (Note that I’m talking about the stage version of Hair, not the film version, which, as I understand, has quite a twist to the ending.) > > We’re used to hearing it as this cheerful hippie anthem in a medley with “Aquarius”, as sung by the Fifth Dimension. But in the context of the show, the song is quite different… [Here’s the scene from the movie.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU) From what I can tell, the context is pretty much the same, twist aside. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/163 "2013-04-20T05:04:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So there are eleven Clouseau movies, nine of which have the Pink Panther in the title, even though the Pink Panther jewel only appears in three of them. Having seen none of them, I have to ask: Since diamonds don’t refract light into pink (It would be a White Panther, if anything), is the gem ultimately revealed as a fake? ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/164 "2013-04-20T05:11:55Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > [hijack] > Did you see the National Tour? I saw them here in my town last night, and thought it was a spectacular show. > [/hijack] Nope, not yet. Just this small local theater which always puts on phenomenal performances. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/165 "2013-04-20T05:18:48Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Having seen none of them, I have to ask: Since diamonds don’t refract light into pink (It would be a White Panther, if anything), is the gem ultimately revealed as a fake? There are real, natural pink diamonds. A big one, the Princie, was just auctioned. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/166 "2013-04-20T06:16:53Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > What’s precisely misunderstood about either of these? Well, with Aqualung it’s probably the people who think the song’s lyrics are “duhduh-duh-duh-DUHHH-duh” that are confused. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/167 "2013-04-20T11:53:14Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Partly. More than one commentator has observed the ludicrousness of the scene of dinosaurs lighting up. The electrically-charged stunners may give some rationale for the image, but they’re ridiculously inappropriate – if the scene were lit by their discharges, we’d have lightning-like brief flashes of light, instead of the sustained light beams moving around that we do have. …y’mean like the big spotlights that were being waved around by the park crewmen? 😃 ('course, that also brings up the questions of A) Why they were moving the raptor at night, B) If they had to do it at night, why they had such a dramatically inadequate lighting setup, and C) who _were_ the guys who’s job it was to hold the flashlights, and who’s reaction to signs of trouble was to run up and start waggling the maglight through the cage bars. “Whazzat? Izzat him, [Spike?](http://looneytunes.wikia.com/wiki/Spike_and_Chester) You want the light here? Here’s some light! Look, a squirrel!” 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/168 "2013-04-20T12:19:48Z")
:eek: Just last night, I dug out my old vinyl album of the original cast of ‘Hair’ and played it! And now, I’m reading about the songs I listened to last night! Strange! It’s a really old album, I bought it when it first came out, many many years ago. But I love all the songs as much as ever. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/169 "2013-04-20T12:30:56Z")
I swore I posted this, but I can’t find it. I feel like a lot of people who criticize Scott Pilgrim (and, to be fair, probably a lot of people who think it’s soooo sweeeet) don’t really get that Scott and Ramona are **supposed** to be kind of terrible people. That’s not a flaw, that was the point. Scott is a loser asshole freeloading punk that somehow manages to have no self esteem and an overinflated ego simultaneously (and, in the comics, has literally revised history in his own mind to always make himself the hero even when he was an unrepentant bully). Ramona is a seriously messed up person using Scott for no reason other than to run away from her relationship problems – and in fact has used almost every guy she’s ever dated to do things for her until she grew tired of them. Neither of them give a fuck, or even really notice, when others around them have problems in general (such as Scott not even realizing that he hurt Knives). The story isn’t “how Scott beats the bosses and wins the princess.” That’s just the framing story. It’s the story of how Scott narrowly averts becoming an Evil Ex himself, and how Ramona learns to treat others as something other than a means of escape or simply serving her own ends. To be fair, the movie, pressed for time as it was, makes the character development of Ramona so subtle you really have to know what you’re looking for (it **is** there, but you have to really pay attention to lines like “you’re what I need right now”), so I can see where people got a Twilight-esque “why does Scott excuse this behavior and want her affection again?” vibe from it. It also fouled up the ending a little with the “power of self respect” thing – it sent the right message, but may have been a little too subtle that Scott was essentially realizing that by fighting Gideon for Ramona he was doing **exactly** the same thing Gideon did by assembling the Evil Exes to begin with – trying to win Ramona’s affection by beating up her boyfriend. It’s not supposed to be a cute story about love and rescuing the princess. Nor is it supposed to be about a Manic Pixie Dream Girl rescuing some pathetic loser from his boring awkwardness. I’d call it a reconstruction of a romantic comedy (where Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a deconstruction). It recognizes that, yes, these two people are horrible and fundamentally just using each other to get past their own personal issues regardless of what the other person needs or wants – but that’s okay, because when people need to they can recognize their flaws and better themselves. Maybe you could say that that message is bad because oftentimes people don’t change and you can’t hope they’ll change in a relationship. That’s a valid point, but at least if you’re making it you understood what the hell actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/170 "2013-04-20T12:38:10Z")
I think the main problem with that film is the two lead actors couldn’t act their way out of a paper bag. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/171 "2013-04-20T13:26:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, perhaps the idea that anyone would _want_ [**Aqualung**](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jethrotull/aqualung.html) played at a wedding… Who the heck plays AL at their wedding? ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/172 "2013-04-20T13:41:29Z")
> [@Hermoine](#): > > Bennett meant there to be a slightly disturbing component to the ending: all the hard work these dancers have gone through amounts to their being completely anonymous and unrecognizable, backing up the show’s big star. He wanted the audience to leave thinking, “They went through all that just to be anonymous?” I thought the movie handled this well. The anonymity at the end is striking. To stick with Broadway, **Rent**. People see the leads living in some WASPY hipster white utopia, rebels against The Man, but in reality they’re suffering from mental anguish, AIDS, and deep depression, and living often without heat or water. Sort of similar to the **Saturday Night Fever** example, the “reputation” is opposite the piece. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/173 "2013-04-20T14:17:23Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I swore I posted this, but I can’t find it. > > I feel like a lot of people who criticize Scott Pilgrim (and, to be fair, probably a lot of people who think it’s soooo sweeeet) don’t really get that Scott and Ramona are **supposed** to be kind of terrible people. That’s not a flaw, that was the point. Scott is a loser asshole freeloading punk that somehow manages to have no self esteem and an overinflated ego simultaneously (and, in the comics, has literally revised history in his own mind to always make himself the hero even when he was an unrepentant bully). Ramona is a seriously messed up person using Scott for no reason other than to run away from her relationship problems – and in fact has used almost every guy she’s ever dated to do things for her until she grew tired of them. Neither of them give a fuck, or even really notice, when others around them have problems in general (such as Scott not even realizing that he hurt Knives). > > The story isn’t “how Scott beats the bosses and wins the princess.” That’s just the framing story. It’s the story of how Scott narrowly averts becoming an Evil Ex himself, and how Ramona learns to treat others as something other than a means of escape or simply serving her own ends. > > To be fair, the movie, pressed for time as it was, makes the character development of Ramona so subtle you really have to know what you’re looking for (it **is** there, but you have to really pay attention to lines like “you’re what I need right now”), so I can see where people got a Twilight-esque “why does Scott excuse this behavior and want her affection again?” vibe from it. It also fouled up the ending a little with the “power of self respect” thing – it sent the right message, but may have been a little too subtle that Scott was essentially realizing that by fighting Gideon for Ramona he was doing **exactly** the same thing Gideon did by assembling the Evil Exes to begin with – trying to win Ramona’s affection by beating up her boyfriend. > > It’s not supposed to be a cute story about love and rescuing the princess. Nor is it supposed to be about a Manic Pixie Dream Girl rescuing some pathetic loser from his boring awkwardness. I’d call it a reconstruction of a romantic comedy (where Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a deconstruction). It recognizes that, yes, these two people are horrible and fundamentally just using each other to get past their own personal issues regardless of what the other person needs or wants – but that’s okay, because when people need to they can recognize their flaws and better themselves. > > Maybe you could say that that message is bad because oftentimes people don’t change and you can’t hope they’ll change in a relationship. That’s a valid point, but at least if you’re making it you understood what the hell actually happened. I remember being shocked at SDCC a few years back at one of the Scott Pilgrim panels. So many fans of the books clearly had not gotten the point. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/174 "2013-04-20T14:41:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [Here’s the scene from the movie.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU) From what I can tell, the context is pretty much the same, twist aside. You know, now that I’ve seen that ending (though not the whole movie), it DOES work pretty well even if it takes a major liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/175 "2013-04-20T15:23:16Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > To stick with Broadway, **Rent**. People see the leads living in some WASPY hipster white utopia, rebels against The Man, but in reality they’re suffering from mental anguish, AIDS, and deep depression, and living often without heat or water. Sort of similar to the **Saturday Night Fever** example, the “reputation” is opposite the piece. The leads are “suffering from mental anguish, AIDS, and deep depression, and living often without heat or water” BY CHOICE. Big difference and the big reason the leads are hated by a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/176 "2013-04-20T15:36:10Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > Who the heck plays AL at their wedding? Maybe the same people who play “Psycho Killer”? ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/177 "2013-04-20T17:13:46Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Or _Psycho Killer_. Qu’est que c’est? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/178 "2013-04-20T17:25:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Psycho Killer? What is that? That made me laugh! Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/179 "2013-04-20T17:54:44Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > You know, now that I’ve seen that ending (though not the whole movie), it DOES work pretty well even if it takes a major liberty. You really should see the movie. Milos Forman is a fascinating director, and \*Hair \*is very much in the same mold of his other films like _One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, Ragtime, The People vs. Larry Flynt,_ and _Man on the Moon._ They’re all films made from the point of view of an immigrant who loves Americans and is trying to understand what makes them tick. ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417/180 "2013-04-20T17:58:45Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Another song example - _Chumbawamba’s_ ‘Tubthumping’ is a slam aimed at mindless binge-drinking idiots that became the bands biggest hit (by far) once it was adopted as an anthem by the very people it was meant to mock. Ali G and Borat are much the same. Sacha Baron Cohen is remorselessly taking the piss out of everyone he meets when he plays those characters. That might sound like an obvious truth, but it’s a matter of degree. He’s not just having a laugh at your expense, he’s calling you a mindless vapid cunt while he’s at it. Getting people to sing along with “Throw the Jew down the well” and getting them to cheer as Borat says “We support your War \*of \*Terror” to a redneck audience takes some balls. Easy targets, yes, but he’s skewering the absolute shit out of them at the same time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspects-of-pop-culture-people-seem-to-misunderstand/647417.md?page=10)