# Aspenglow's Modding In Accupuncture Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 2, 2025, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778 "2025-02-02T20:55:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/1 "2025-02-02T20:55:36Z")
**Ulfreida** said > [@](#): > > I’m trying to help you have some empathy for the kind of people who seek out other, unproven methods because they have run out of options in the ‘evidence-based’ world of medicine. But I’m not doing a good job, and I also sense that you are not interested in understanding people who are different than yourself. Rationality can be a narrow windowless box. Give you the joy of it. “I’m trying to help you have some empathy for the kind of people who seek out other, unproven methods because they have run out of options in the ‘evidence-based’ world of medicine.” If this is not in fact an insult claiming that I do not have empathy for these people, I ain’t seeing it. As I quoted above, **Ulfreida** also says “and I also sense that you are not interested in understanding people who are different than yourself.” If this is not an insult claiming that I am not intersted in understanding those different from myself, again I ain’t seeing it. I admit that I did respond in a post with > [@](#): > > You sense entirely incorrectly, but thanks for the insult. **Aspenglow** Modded the thread, saying > [@](#): > > Both, time to step back and disengage from this discussion. You’ve both become entirely too heated. Let it go. My posts in tha thread were arguing for evidenced based medicine and against wasting time and money on things never proven to have a beneficial effect beyond placebo. While it could be argued that I should not responded to the insults at all and just reported them to a mod (which I did as well), I am not seeing how my posts were “too heated.” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/2 "2025-02-02T21:20:25Z")
Don’t mean to condescend, at all. But it seems to me your super long posts seemed excessive. A tad overkill to answer someone just telllng of their experiences. I don’t recall them asking anyone to believe only them. Only asking “Why wouldnt you, if it helps YOU?” I don’t believe acupuncture, chiro, or waving crystals around _cure_ anything. (My favorite, “Drink Vinegar everyday and your diabetes will disappear” No, no it won’t.) You spent a bunch of words to say “I’m right, you’re wrong” ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/3 "2025-02-02T21:21:03Z")
Since there have been concerns in prior ATMB threads, I’ll include a link for any who haven’t been following: > [@Acupuncture for lower back pain?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acupuncture-for-lower-back-pain/1013690): > > I’m not a believer in woo of any kind, and particularly not a believer in non-western medicine, but I’m desperate. A friend has urged me to try acupuncture to relieve the constant ache in my lower back after as little as a few blocks of walking. Had anyone tried acupuncture for relieving back pain? With what results? Also are there any qualities (credentials, qualifications) I should look for in a practitioner? My POV on this OP - I think the general tone of the thread was concern that rather than jumping to an unproven alternative, that they actually consult with a specialist in the area, rather than a PCP. Which makes perfect sense. And that the symptoms reported did NOT match what most would expect to be the norm for age and usual wear and tear. Ulfrieda’s comments, while IMHO not helpful in terms of a verifiable treatment were within the realms of the thread, which did specifically ask for input on Acupuncture, but did not provide any of the evidence the thread asked for. And they were, from the get go, overly aggressive and insulting to “Western Medicine”. So, long story short, I do think that Ulfreida, likely out of defensiveness, was being overly aggressive in the thread, long before DocCathode got confrontational. STILL, generally mods tell everyone to calm down, not just one poster. And, more directly, the two of you going back and forth had taken over the thread, which the mods OFTEN note about, even if they don’t assign blame! So, TL;DR, I don’t think it was about an equality of guilt, but the fact that the argument between the two of you had become the near-entire focus of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/4 "2025-02-02T22:00:42Z")
I think the mod note was just right. @DocCathode, you got aggressive quickly and Ulfreida responded in kind, and telling you both to back away was appropriate. I didn’t see anything in either of your posts that was an insult. You might not like to be criticized, but not every criticism is an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/5 "2025-02-02T22:19:44Z")
Thanks to those who have worked in this thread to add some context to the moderation. @DocCathode, just to be clear, moderators don’t moderate for accuracy or truthfulness in posts. It is not our role to decide who has the “right” or “wrong” side of an argument. We leave discussion about evidence and facts to the community and hope it all sorts out. Our role is to make sure things stay civil. You will note, I hope, that I made no judgment in the subject thread about whose argument was the “correct” one, only a caution to both of you to calm down a bit. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/6 "2025-02-02T22:53:41Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > You spent a bunch of words to say “I’m right, you’re wrong” First the posted mission of this message board is still to fight woo and other such things making claims that are unsupported by evidence. A poster saying that we should be kind to people evidence medicine cannot help when they throw out science, evidence and logic in despeartion is very much making an argument contrary to the missio of the SDMB. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > Since there have been concerns in prior ATMB threads, I’ll include a link for any who haven’t been following: Oops! I forgot to include a link. Sorry. > [@TroutMan](#): > > I didn’t see anything in either of your posts that was an insult > [@Ulfreida](#): > > I’m trying to help you have some empathy for the kind of people who seek out other, unproven methods because they have run out of options in the ‘evidence-based’ world of medicine. First, **Ulfreida** says I have no empathy for these people. How is that not an insult? Second, they make it very cleer that the reason I don’t have empathy is because of ignorance. How is that not an insult? Plus, if they ever demonstrated that I do not have empathy for these people or am ignorant of their circumstances it was not in that thread. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > But I’m not doing a good job, and I also sense that you are not interested in understanding people who are different than yourself. Rationality can be a narrow windowless box. Give you the joy of it. So, again without bothering to back up their claims- I do not undertand people who are different from myself and am not interested in understanding. How are both of those claims not insults? > [@Aspenglow](#): > > You will note, I hope, that I made no judgment in the subject thread about whose argument was the “correct” one, only a caution to both of you to calm down a bit. Other than “thanks for the insult” where was I not calm? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/7 "2025-02-02T22:55:47Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Other than “thanks for the insult” where was I not calm? That’s where you weren’t calm. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/8 "2025-02-02T23:08:47Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > First, **Ulfreida** says I have no empathy for these people. How is that not an insult? She didn’t say you are completely lacking in empathy, she said she is trying to help you find empathy for certain people. You interpreting her words in the worst way does not make it an insult. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Second, they make it very cleer that the reason I don’t have empathy is because of ignorance. How is that not an insult? That was not very clear. Again, you interpreted it as such. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Plus, if they ever demonstrated that I do not have empathy for these people or am ignorant of their circumstances it was not in that thread. Insults have nothing to do with whether the person is right or wrong in their accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/9 "2025-02-02T23:16:15Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > She didn’t say you are completely lacking in empathy, she said she is trying to help you find empathy for certain people. You interpreting her words in the worst way does not make it an insult. Just from that quote, I would find it insulting. I am not a small child to be talked to that way. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/10 "2025-02-02T23:27:16Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > She didn’t say you are completely lacking in empathy I never said she did. > [@TroutMan](#): > > she said she is trying to help you find empathy for certain people. Yes, she did. That would only makes sense if _I had no empathy for those people_. If you read her other posts in the thread, she very clearly is saying not only do I not have empathy for these people- I lack experience of such situations in my life and in the lives of those I care about, If I had that experience, my position would be different. > [@TroutMan](#): > > You interpreting her words in the worst way does not make it an insult. My intrepretation is based on her posts in that thread. > [@TroutMan](#): > > That was not very clear. It is if you have read the entire thread. > [@TroutMan](#): > > Again, you interpreted it as such. My interpretation was based on the rest of her posts in that thread. > [@TroutMan](#): > > Insults have nothing to do with whether the person is right or wrong in their accusation. True, but one of the reasons these insults bug me so much is that they are not based on evidence or knowledge of me at all. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > I’m trying to help you have some empathy for the kind of people who seek out other, unproven methods because they have run out of options in the ‘evidence-based’ world of medicine. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/11 "2025-02-03T00:11:06Z")
I do not see those as insults. It’s clear that you do. I’m just giving you another perspective. Do with it what you will. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/12 "2025-02-03T05:24:48Z")
If we’re soliciting opinions, I’d see them as insults too. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/13 "2025-02-03T06:09:32Z")
I’d say it’s not only an insult, but an accusation of bad faith. And borders on trolling. Because how exactly are you supposed to respond when someone accuses you of not being interested in an open and honest discussion? Right, right, flag for moderation. Still… It just seems like a backhanded way of telling someone to stop posting already. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/14 "2025-02-03T06:36:03Z")
I’d like to know this myself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/15 "2025-02-03T06:36:43Z")
Do I really have to give equal consideration to woo anecdotal stories based on disproved science theories, as opposed to evidence based pretty much proven medicine, to be looked at as “open-minded”? At what point am I allowed to dismiss nonsense and not be seen as “close-minded”? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/16 "2025-02-03T06:40:49Z")
I don’t believe you really care how you’re seen. You’re so much the maverick. I mean this in the nicest way. I find you refreshing. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/17 "2025-02-03T14:56:56Z")
Okay. I had some questions about **Aspenglow** ’s moderation in that thread. I started this thread and those questions were answered. I will now be starting a thread on **What Exit** ’s moderation in that thread. I both disagree with a decision, and have questions on what specific things I should keep in mind when posting in the future to avoid further thread bans. I will post a link to the new ATMB thread when I have posted it. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/18 "2025-02-03T15:21:13Z")
I have started a second ATMB thread. Here is a link > [@What Exit And My Thread Ban In The Accupuncture Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-exit-and-my-thread-ban-in-the-accupuncture-thread/1013821): > > Okay, I just received what I am pretty sure is my first thread ban. It was an IMHO thread asking for advice on accupuncture. Here is a link [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acupuncture-for-lower-back-pain/1013690?u=doccathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/acupuncture-for-lower-back-pain/1013690) The short version- I made the usual posts that accupunctues has never been shown to have a benefit beyond the placebo effect. This lead to me being insulted by a poster, and some minor Modding. Here is a link- [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-ac…](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778) This is looking to be a weird and unpleasant week. ---
**Author:** ![StringsandHammers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stringsandhammers/32/17933_2.png) [@StringsandHammers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StringsandHammers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/19 "2025-02-03T16:38:53Z")
. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Don’t mean to condescend, at all. But it seems to me your super long posts seemed excessive. > A tad overkill to answer someone just telllng of their experiences. I don’t recall them asking anyone to believe only them. Only asking “Why wouldnt you, if it helps YOU?” > > I don’t believe acupuncture, chiro, or waving crystals around _cure_ anything. > (My favorite, “Drink Vinegar everyday and your diabetes will disappear” No, no it won’t.) > > You spent a bunch of words to say “I’m right, you’re wrong” Well stated. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778/20 "2025-02-03T16:49:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do I really have to give equal consideration to woo anecdotal stories based on disproved science theories, as opposed to evidence based pretty much proven medicine, to be looked at as “open-minded”? Medicine might be the one where some woo could be given consideration because doctors are rarely empiricists. Acupuncture helps me with my knee pain. Can’t tell you why Can’t back it up with science. Now compare that to medical ‘science’ Disease is caused by bad air (malaria) You need to balance your four humours Ulcers are caused by stress & spicy foods Lobotomies are a good thing (Nobel Prize) Light radiation treatment for illness (Nobel Prize) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspenglows-modding-in-accupuncture-thread/1013778.md?page=2)