# Assad uses chemical weapons. Now what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135 "2013-04-30T19:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/21 "2013-05-01T00:31:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The problem, assuming I’m correct in this, is that not getting involved after announcing that the use of chemical weapons was a “red line” is damaging to the US’s foreign relations. Bingo. As in “talk loudly and carry no stick”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/22 "2013-05-01T00:41:02Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Why do you want war with Syria so badly? Are you just bored with the usual network programming? I don’t want “war with Syria”. In fact, I don’t want US to support either side there - both are horrible. But Obama has been spouting this crap about “red lines” and “game changers” and, when his bluff is called, is showing US to be a paper tiger. And THAT will come back to bite us later. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/23 "2013-05-01T03:10:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t want “war with Syria”. In fact, I don’t want US to support either side there - both are horrible. But Obama has been spouting this crap about “red lines” and “game changers” and, when his bluff is called, is showing US to be a paper tiger. And THAT will come back to bite us later. After Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Libya, I think we have balls-cred to burn anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/24 "2013-05-01T05:52:28Z")
Considering that: (1) The Muslim Brotherhood is now in power in Egypt; (2) The current Libyan government is fairly heavily influenced by Islamists; (3) Algeria, one of the most stable and moderate Muslim countries, has recently been having problems with radical Muslims; (4) At least one rebel group in Syria has openly allied themselves with Al Qaeda; (5) The Assad family has toned down its foreign adventurism over the last several years; I’m beginning to think that, if we intervene at all, it should be on the side of Assad. When Alexander Hamilton supported Jefferson for president over Burr, he supposedly said something to the effect that a smart crook is better than a dumb crook. In much the same way, a relatively rational group of thugs is preferable to an irrational group of thugs. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/25 "2013-05-01T13:12:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A real leader either does not spout rhetoric that he doesn’t intend to follow up on, or if he says something is a “red line” and a “game changer”, and that red line is crossed, he acts on it. I’m thinking woosh. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/26 "2013-05-01T13:19:56Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I’m beginning to think that, if we intervene at all, it should be on the side of Assad. > > When Alexander Hamilton supported Jefferson for president over Burr, he supposedly said something to the effect that a smart crook is better than a dumb crook. In much the same way, a relatively rational group of thugs is preferable to an irrational group of thugs. Worked back in the 30s. Saved Europe from the bolshevik hordes, it did. Then it worked in Spain, Iran, Argentina, Pakistan, Zaire, Indonesia, Iraq, Egypt… ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/27 "2013-05-01T15:36:05Z")
I hear a lot of talk about Syrian air defenses being a strong deterrent and a reason why we don’t have the same options we had in Libya. What kind of air defenses do they have, and are they advanced enough that a flight of Wild Weasels couldn’t take them out? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/28 "2013-05-01T17:17:43Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > When Alexander Hamilton supported Jefferson for president over Burr, he supposedly said something to the effect that a smart crook is better than a dumb crook. First I’ve ever heard of anyone calling Burr dumb, or Jefferson a crook. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/29 "2013-05-01T23:44:13Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > What kind of air defenses do they have, and are they advanced enough that a flight of Wild Weasels couldn’t take them out? Thank-you for causing me to go look up what Wild Weasel means and clearing up a misconception I had from playing with G.I. Joe’s as a child. [This cite describes the upgrades and general capabilities of the Syrian air defenses](http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130429/DEFREG/304290009/US-Says-Syria-Has-Beefed-Up-Air-Defenses). I have no idea what we do to counter it, but I imagine there are lots of options. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/30 "2013-05-02T16:46:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t want “war with Syria”. In fact, I don’t want US to support either side there - both are horrible. But Obama has been spouting this crap about “red lines” and “game changers” and, when his bluff is called, is showing US to be a paper tiger. And THAT will come back to bite us later. Well it looks like I got one thing right: > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of course whatever he decides to do the Republicans will be strongly against it, Honestly, Terr, if Obama hadn’t talked about “Red lines” and “game changers” you would be right here saying that Assad used chemical weapons because Obama didn’t speak out strongly enough against it. There is logically no thing that Obama can do that you will approve of. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/31 "2013-05-02T16:59:17Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Well it looks like I got one thing right: No you didn’t. I am not a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/32 "2013-05-02T16:59:56Z")
given the fact that the Arab Spring hasn’t exactly produced pro-Western regimes there is no rush here. It’s a civil war after-all. And given Obama’s level of support for Americans in Benghazi I don’t see anything happening without a butt-load of world support. Let the Chinese deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/33 "2013-05-02T17:00:47Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Honestly, Terr, if Obama hadn’t talked about “Red lines” and “game changers” you would be right here saying that Assad used chemical weapons because Obama didn’t speak out strongly enough against it. There is logically no thing that Obama can do that you will approve of. “Speaking up strongly.” Hilarious. That’s about the only thing that Obama is good at. As for backing his words up… not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/34 "2013-05-02T17:17:20Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Thank-you for causing me to go look up what Wild Weasel means and clearing up a misconception I had from playing with G.I. Joe’s as a child. [This cite describes the upgrades and general capabilities of the Syrian air defenses](http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130429/DEFREG/304290009/US-Says-Syria-Has-Beefed-Up-Air-Defenses). I have no idea what we do to counter it, but I imagine there are lots of options. You have to be able to detect a plane to defend against it. Between stealth aircraft and radar/communication jamming aircraft it’s not a problem that can’t be smothered in money. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/35 "2013-05-02T17:17:56Z")
Might as well be some rebel faction that has tried their hand with chemical weapons. In any case, perhaps it does not really matter whether the West decides to support supposedly “good” rebels with arms or direct military interventions. If support is thrown behind forces fighting against the regime, then the Shia and other minorities will be left at the mercy of Islamists. > [@](#): > > **Syrian Shias flee to Lebanon to escape Sunni militias** > > Shia residents from Damascus have described how armed Sunni militiamen waged a campaign of terror in their neighbourhood, daubing crosses on the doors of homes and assassinating religious leaders in the street. [Syrian Shias flee to Lebanon to escape Sunni militias](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10031492/Syrian-Shias-flee-to-Lebanon-to-escape-Sunni-militias.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/36 "2013-05-06T12:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > **U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator** > > U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria’s civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday. [U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505?irpc=932) ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/37 "2013-05-06T13:51:40Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > [U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505?irpc=932) Is the U.S. government under Obama just feigning non-involvement in the Syrian Rebellion or has this ‘rebellion’ been a covert operation from the start? Would this have been delivered by the CIA, together with the normal small arms and ermm..‘training personell’ precisely in order to escalate the conflict? Escalate it to a point where the public would just _have_ to support an attack on the bad people that used “weapons of mass destruction on their own people!!” All the time inching closer toward the real intended target. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/38 "2013-05-06T14:12:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m surprised that no one has made a thread on this yet, so I’ll give it a try. > > So there is evidence mounting that Assad has used chemical weapons. … [I tried. Months ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=676592&highlight=chemical) when the first reports of gas attacks surfaced. If the interest of the board in that thread and this one in GD are any indication then there is not enough interest by the international community to support intervention. Apparently the only real meaning of “red line” in Washington is the[Metro train](http://www.wmata.com/rail/maps/map.cfm?) that serves Rockville or Silver Springs. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/39 "2013-05-06T14:26:56Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > [I tried. Months ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=676592&highlight=chemical) when the first reports of gas attacks surfaced. > > If the interest of the board in that thread and this one in GD are any indication then there is not enough interest by the international community to support intervention. > > Apparently the only real meaning of “red line” in Washington is the[Metro train](http://www.wmata.com/rail/maps/map.cfm?) that serves Rockville or Silver Springs. Well if there is a “red line” and the rebels used chemical weapons does that mean the US should intevene on behalf of Assad? In any the case is still open, but it looks increasingly to have been a Kuwaiti Incubator moment. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135/40 "2013-05-06T14:35:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No you didn’t. I am not a Republican. Not to hijack, but I’d be curious to know how many non-Republicans got your presidential vote in the past. This whole thing reminds me of Bugs Bunny and Yosemite Sam: “I dares ya to cross that line” “I’m a-crossin’” Well, maybe it’s been crossed and maybe it hasn’t. Let’s get all of our facts straight. What chemical weapons were used? Who used them? Against who? What were the casualties? Pretty important stuff to know. I want us to be absolutely sure of these facts before proceeding. Then we have to ask what is in the best interest of the US and what is the most humanitarian course of action? What are our goals? What’s the end game? What are the long term impacts of any action on Syria and the region? If it takes weeks or months to sort it all out, I’m fine with that. We also need to take time to get a consensus from the rest of the world. Not rushing into action is a sign of strong leadership. We’re barely a decade removed from the biggest foreign policy mistake in US history, let’s try to learn from our mistakes. The neo-cons would like us to come in with guns blazing within moments of every crisis, real or invented, in the world. Thank goodness Syria didn’t come to a boil during the W years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assad-uses-chemical-weapons-now-what/657135.md?page=3)