# Assassinating the President of the United States, the Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207 "2017-12-01T01:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/41 "2017-12-01T04:18:51Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > The problem here is definitional and in a nation of 300 million+ it is just far too easy to find a handful of cranks that could find ANY conceivable government “evil, self-serving or insane.” Once you go down the road of eliminating “evil” presidents it will never stop, because every president will so qualify to _somebody_. Best answer so far, IMO. You either trust the system, the process(es) and safeguards in place, have the patience to wait out the election cycles to see if change is coming your way…or you don’t. In which case, any kind of revolutionary ardor can be justified. _Self_ justified. Depending upon how many of your 300 million+ fellow citizens agree with you (or not) will determine (years later, by historians) whether you’re anarchist cranks, terrorists, and traitors, or Patriots and The New Founding Fathers of the Second American Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/42 "2017-12-01T04:37:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I thought “no more elections” was pretty clear that Congress had been cancelled in that hypothetical. Yes, if Congress is still in session and has the option to impeach the President, but is choosing not to because they have a different view on what constitutes “evil, self-serving, or insane”, it would be deeply immoral to try to assassinate the president. Suspension of elections doesn’t necessarily mean the dissolution of Congress. If enough of the major political figures in the rogue president’s party are in on the power grab, he could suspend all elections, cementing his party’s hold on power, and still keep Congress running as a rubber stamp for his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/43 "2017-12-01T04:52:59Z")
I would never advocate the assassination of a US President. However, neither would the current one dropping dead for any reason at all ruin my day. I am reminded of the Nazis who tried to assassinate Hitler. Good on them, but hey, they were still Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/44 "2017-12-01T05:02:38Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > But is it ever the right thing to do? Here is the thing: the act of assassination results in outrage. The effect of that outrage is to stoke sympathy toward the victim, strengthening the position of his supporters. Hence, removing the “immediate threat” almost always establishes a worse situation than what was addressing. Assassination is simply a bad idea because it creates backlash. It is like trying to fix a stuttering engine by whacking the head with a sledgehammer. You end up worse off than you were. To anyone actually considering this “remedy”, please reconsider. You will make life much worse for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/45 "2017-12-01T05:17:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Here is the thing: the act of assassination results in outrage. The effect of that outrage is to stoke sympathy toward the victim, strengthening the position of his supporters. Oh, please. Not with a Trump. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/46 "2017-12-01T05:20:04Z")
Let’s keep this thread hypothetical. Leave Trump (or any potentially future president) out of it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/47 "2017-12-01T05:24:11Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Here is the thing: the act of assassination results in outrage. The effect of that outrage is to stoke sympathy toward the victim, strengthening the position of his supporters. Hence, removing the “immediate threat” almost always establishes a worse situation than what was addressing. Assassination is simply a bad idea because it creates backlash. It is like trying to fix a stuttering engine by whacking the head with a sledgehammer. You end up worse off than you were. > > To anyone actually considering this “remedy”, please reconsider. You will make life much worse for everyone. Would it be fair to characterize your objections as more pragmatic and less ethical or moral in nature? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/48 "2017-12-01T05:25:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let’s keep this thread hypothetical. > Leave Trump (or any **potentially future president** ) out of it. > > [/Moderating] Are you hinting at something? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/49 "2017-12-01T05:29:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I would never advocate the assassination of a US President. However, neither would the current one dropping dead for any reason at all ruin my day. > > I am reminded of the Nazis who tried to assassinate Hitler. Good on them, but hey, **they were still Nazis**. Point of order: neither Stauffenberg nor Rommel were ever members of the Nazi Party. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/50 "2017-12-01T05:38:27Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Point of order: neither Stauffenberg nor Rommel were ever members of the Nazi Party. Interesting nitpick that I didn’t realize. But still, if you command Nazi forces under direct orders from Hitler, I’m ok with calling them nazis. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/51 "2017-12-01T05:50:59Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Interesting nitpick that I didn’t realize. But still, if you command Nazi forces under direct orders from Hitler, I’m ok with calling them nazis. Fair 'nuf, and I’m not trying to absolve either of the things they did as Wehrmacht officers _for_ the Nazi regime. But it was their (eventual!) disaffection with said regime that led them to take the actions that they did. You can argue, quite legitimately, that perhaps it was, “Day Late, Dollar Short” on their part. Then again, you can also argue, “Better Late Than Never.” WRT the topic at hand, yes, it is morally better to be opposed from the outset, _if it is truly warranted_ (as opposed to merely being butt-hurt because things didn’t go the way certain people wanted things to go). But the remedy, via established due process, is probably quite preferable to…more extreme and immediate measures. See **eschereal’s** post for just the practical/pragmatic reason(s), if not the moral/ethical ones. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/52 "2017-12-01T05:54:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Would it be fair to characterize your objections as more pragmatic and less ethical or moral in nature? It is at the intersection of pragmatism and morality. Why should you think that the two are wholly exclusive to each other? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/53 "2017-12-01T06:00:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is at the intersection of pragmatism and morality. Why should you think that the two are wholly exclusive to each other? Pragmatism can be certainly be a moral virtue. In my book, maybe not at the top of the list, but definitely in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/54 "2017-12-01T06:15:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > not your typical liberals-hyperventilating-that-he’s-authoritarian Was that blindly partisan comment really called for, or did you just see an opportunity to throw in an insult of liberals, and do it for shits and giggles? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/55 "2017-12-01T06:17:03Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > So to re-state: if you think that assassination could be a good and moral choice, what is the least thing that would make it justifiable? If you think that it could not be good and moral, discuss that and the reasons why. I think that, here in America, one should never assassinate government officials. It is un-American- it essentially nullifies the concepts on which the country is founded. Besides that, when I imagine my adult life, past or future, and imagine a hypothetical assassination of the president, things always become worse. Sometimes a lot worse. Are you familiar with the [Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria)? Even under the most extreme conditions the assassination won’t take down the whole system, the assassin’s life will certainly be ruined, and the odds of success are remote at best. What if Zombie Hitler arrives and convinces Americans to elect him president, even though he is demonstrably German (rising as a zombie legally counts as birth, a law Zombie Hitler coincidentally lobbied for, and since his grave was transported to Missouri for the event, well, technically…), and proceeds to behave exactly as one would expect? Even then, I say no. If you still think you are going to take a crack at it, well then I definitely don’t know you and anyway I’ll be busy running the other way. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/56 "2017-12-01T06:20:01Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Was that blindly partisan comment really called for, or did you just see an opportunity to throw in an insult of liberals, and do it for shits and giggles? :dubious: What message board are _you_ reading? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/57 "2017-12-01T06:24:31Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > What if Zombie Hitler arrives and convinces Americans to elect him president, even though he is demonstrably German (rising as a zombie legally counts as birth, a law Zombie Hitler coincidentally lobbied for, and since his grave was transported to Missouri for the event, well, technically…), and proceeds to behave exactly as one would expect? Even then, I say no. If you still think you are going to take a crack at it, well then I definitely don’t know you and anyway I’ll be busy running the other way. I know a couple of old boys from the local V.F.W. who might take exception to Zombie Hitler raising his undead head here on American soil. They may be on oxygen, and get around on walkers and Hoveround scooters, but I’m fair certain they remember how to _properly_ employ an M1 Garand. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/58 "2017-12-01T06:29:11Z")
Really? You think they’d shoot a duly elected POTUS? They fought to _defend_ this country, not shoot its president! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/59 "2017-12-01T06:34:12Z")
It is just to use violence only in self-defense, and then, only in relative proportion. There are many cases when it is satisfies these conditions but is impractical, feckless, and/or counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207/60 "2017-12-01T06:35:01Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Really? You think they’d shoot a duly elected POTUS? They fought to _defend_ this country, not shoot its president! Well, we _are_ talking about Zombie Hitler. _Hitler._ So, given that hypothetical, I think that I can safely say yes, those old boys (survivors of D-Day, Bastogne, etc.) wouldn’t bat an eye at putting a 30-06 FMJ through the brain pan of even _that_ duly elected President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president-of-the-united-states-the-debate/803207.md?page=4)