# Assassinating the President **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 15, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066 "2003-06-15T18:58:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/1 "2003-06-15T18:58:59Z")
Whoa Nellie, put down those moderation powers I’m just trying to get views and hopefully answers. Is there a law in the United States where discussing the assassination or planning on the harm of an American president is highly illegal? I know that kind of stuff is illegal when it comes to doing the same towards Joe Citizen but is there legislation that makes penalties tougher if the target happens to be the president. I only ask because I saw one thing in another forum by a non-American and I remember when I was a kid and joked about this folks jumped down my throat saying I could go to jail even for joking about such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/2 "2003-06-15T19:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raisinbread \* > \*\*Is there a law in the United States where discussing the assassination or planning on the harm of an American president is highly illegal? \*\* You are asking if plotting the death of the President is illegal??? Um, what do _you_ think??? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/3 "2003-06-15T19:13:02Z")
Actually, just threatening the life of the President, even if it’s a drunken barroom comment like, “I’d like to KILL that bastard President \_\_\_\_\_\_!” is illegal and can get you arrested and jailed. As a practical matter, I don’t think the law is enforced every time some drunk spouts off like that, but I do remember arrests of people for such threats. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/4 "2003-06-15T19:16:05Z")
Joking about it? No. If someone seriously felt that you were plotting it, you might have a problem - but then again, if there’s no proof other than hearsay, I’m not sure how you could be punished. But something like mailing a letter to the White House wherein you talk about assassination could get you in trouble for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/5 "2003-06-15T19:18:58Z")
[Threatening the life of the US President](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/moe/press%20releases/archived%20press%20releases/2003%20press%20release/february/lewis_eugene.html) is indeed an indictable offense. ---
**Author:** ![Deadmime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@Deadmime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadmime)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/6 "2003-06-15T19:18:59Z")
Well to be honest, if anyone thinks you seriously would attempt to assinate anyone you could be arrested. I do remember hearing though that talks about assinating any public official is a big no no. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/7 "2003-06-15T19:20:14Z")
😉 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3567483#post3567483](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3567483#post3567483) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/8 "2003-06-15T19:22:41Z")
If I read the OP correctly, she was inquiring, not if it were illegal to plan to kill the President, but if the fact that it was the President whose death was being encompassed made it a different, stronger criminal offense than, say, a plot to kill John Q. Citizen. Apparently, from **Ice Wolf** ’s link, there is a distinct crime. Any lawyers familiar enough with the U.S.C. to verify this? ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/9 "2003-06-15T19:28:06Z")
Herr **[color=“black”]Polycarp** is correct in one respect. I was also questioning the legislation towards making offhanded remarks towards harming or killing an American president whether in “jest”, offhandedly or while intoxicated.[/color] ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/10 "2003-06-15T19:39:32Z")
Well, in [this case](http://csmail.law.pace.edu/lawlib/legal/us-legal/judiciary/second-circuit/test3/97-1323.opn.html), “the district court added three points to Cole’s base offense level pursuant to U.S.S.G. § 3A1.2(a)” because “the victims were government officers–the letters threatened to kill the President of the United States and Senator Alfonse D’Amato.” So, it would seem there is a special weighting when it comes to threatening government officials in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/11 "2003-06-15T19:55:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > Joking about it? No. If someone seriously felt that you were plotting it, you might have a problem - but then again, if there’s no proof other than hearsay, I’m not sure how you could be punished. But something like mailing a letter to the White House wherein you talk about assassination could get you in trouble for sure. Marley23: Here’s a little quiz for you. You and Fred are sitting in a bar, and Fred says, “Hey, Marley. Guess what? I’m plotting to kill the President of the United States. And I plan to fund my operation with money from the bank robbery I committed yesterday.” Question: does the hearsay rule prevent Fred’s words from being used against him as evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/12 "2003-06-15T19:58:35Z")
I’m not sure. I imagine it would be enough to detain him if you thought he meant it and intended to do it. What the standards of proof are in a case like this I don’t know. Perhaps corroboration of others in the bar would make a difference. That’s probably a query for a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/13 "2003-06-15T20:23:55Z")
btw, Polycarp et al: raisinbread is a male, contrary to popular opinion. ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/14 "2003-06-15T20:45:44Z")
SHHH!!! Lies, all lies!!! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/15 "2003-06-15T21:00:12Z")
[18 U.S.C. 871:](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/871.html) > [@](#): > > Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/16 "2003-06-15T21:11:48Z")
So, unless you consider an ISP to be a “letter carrier” or a “post office”, emailing a threat is ok? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![doctordoowop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@doctordoowop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doctordoowop)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/17 "2003-06-15T22:27:10Z")
The only time joking is considered a crime is specifically at security checkpoints at the airports. Wilt Chamberlain was detained for a period of time years ago for joking about a bomb on a team flight. Now, I recall having seen specific signs banning even joking (or mentioning) anything about bombs, etc. Interestingly, when President Kennedy was assassinated, there was no federal law against murdering the president. Therefore it was handled by the Dallas Police and not the FBI. After that, of course, it became a federal offense. President Ford may have the all time record for being a presidential target. On Sept. 5, 1975, “Squeaky” Fromme might have killed him but forgot to put a round in one of the chambers. 17 days later, Sara Jane Moore tried to shoot him. Both of them are in prison. ---
**Author:** ![doctordoowop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@doctordoowop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doctordoowop)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/18 "2003-06-15T22:28:30Z")
By record, I meant Ford had the shortest time in between assassination attempts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/19 "2003-06-15T23:40:59Z")
Marley: I aksed the question because your post seemed to suggest that somehow the hearsay rule would protect someone from punishment under those circumstances. Since this is GQ, home of factual questions and answers, I just wanted to point out that the hearsay rule is no help to an accused in the situation I describe, since an admission against penal interest is an exception to the hearsay rule. So “hearsay” wouldn’t stop you from testifying as to what Fred said, and Fred could be convicted of threatening the life of the President without any other testimony or evidence. I mention this because your comment about hearsay seemed to foster an incorrect view. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066/20 "2003-06-15T23:48:39Z")
> [@](#): > > “the victims were government officers–the letters threatened to kill the President of the United States and Senator Alfonse D’Amato.” It’s a sad commentary on the American justice system, when it’s against the law to threaten to kill Al D’Amato. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assassinating-the-president/182066.md?page=2)