# Assbag general says that Bush was "Chosen by God" to lead the fight against "Satan&qu **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 17, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054 "2003-10-17T17:26:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/41 "2003-10-20T07:55:44Z")
General Boykin may have referred to good Americans who are Muslim, but he also said that the Christian god was real and the Allah unreal and an idol. Whatever you say about the venue in which he spoke, if he was wearing a uniform at the time of his remarks he _was_ representing his government. Not that his words were too much different from Bush’s gaffe about the “crusade” against terrorism. Incidentally, calling Allah unreal and an idol is an affront to Muslims on two levels. Allah is a god to them, and they do not believe in any idol. If you’ve ever seen the inside of a mosque you may have noted that there is no representation of anything living anywhere to be seen. The decoration of a mosque is entirely geometric. No such thing as an idol exists in Muslim belief. Boykin’s remarks about Muslims worshiping an idol were simply ignorant and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/42 "2003-10-20T13:50:53Z")
Boykin’s comments are also in direct conflic with the stated position of his own CIC who has taken great pains to state (publicly, at least) that this is not a war on Islam. Boykin’s stupid slurs are insubordinate as well as bigoted. Furthermore, he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying terrorist and guerilla recruiters with propaganda and by scaring the Muslim world as a whole into giving more popular support to anti-American causes. Boykin is a fucking asshole any way you slice it. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/43 "2003-10-20T16:50:45Z")
“Furthermore, he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying terrorist and guerilla recruiters with propaganda and by scaring the Muslim world as a whole into giving more popular support to anti-American causes.” Welcome to Horseshit land. Which is kinda like Marlboro Country, only stinkier. Your argument fails for so many reasons that it’d take me two days to list them all. Here’s the most important. You cannot charge someone for treason for excercising their first amendment rights. (I wish someone would tell O’Reilly and what’s her name, the blonde female, that). Nuff said about that. For me, it comes down to this: Is he the kind of guy we want fighting for us? To answer that question, we look at his bio. Twice Wounded in combat, plank owner in Delta Force, operated in Iran, Somalia, Panama, Grenada, Columbia, Haiti. Former Deputy director of special activities in the U.S. Army Element of the CIA. Former Commanding Officer of Delta Force. Former Commanding Officer of Special Operations. Former Commandant of the Special Warfare School. Frankly, I don’t give a flying fuck if he wears tutu’s on his own time and praises Gaia in uniform everyday on his way to and from the office. He is JUST the kind of professional bad ass I want on MY side in a war since he could probably disembowel you with a toothpick and build a bomb out of dental floss and gum wrappers. He’s an operator. And I want him on MY side as apposed to sitting on the sidelines. He clearly has a strong belief. That belief is fairly obviously part of what helps him cope with what he’s seen and been a part of. It helps him function and carry out missions for our nation in hell holes you and I can’t begin to imagine. I can’t begrudge him his belief given what he does and where he goes. Hell, maybe he knows something you and I don’t. More to the point, to look for perfection in anyone is an excercise in both pride and stupidity. It doesn’t exist, it never has existed, it never will exist. Get over his not being a perfect robot and accept him for what he is. A genuine bad-ass who paradoxically (or maybe quixotically) believes in the Love of Jesus Christ. Right now, we NEED the genuine article bad-asses like him regardless of how they view the afterlife. To remove him because of some unrelated political reason is to hamstring us all. It is to deprive us of his skills, knowledge and paid-for-in-blood wisdom. It is to throw away a useful, deadly weapon to use against our enemies because of some cosmetic detail some of us don’t like. To do that, WOULD be giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/44 "2003-10-20T17:39:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bouncer \* > \*\*“Furthermore, he is giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying terrorist and guerilla recruiters with propaganda and by scaring the Muslim world as a whole into giving more popular support to anti-American causes.” > > Welcome to Horseshit land. Which is kinda like Marlboro Country, only stinkier. Your argument fails for so many reasons that it’d take me two days to list them all. Here’s the most important. You cannot charge someone for treason for excercising their first amendment rights. (I wish someone would tell O’Reilly and what’s > her name, the blonde female, that).\*\* First of all I never said that he should be charged with treason I said he was an _asshole_ and second of all why don’t you actually show me where my argument “fails” instead of just flinging shit? > [@](#): > > \*\*Nuff said about that. For me, it comes down to this: > > Is he the kind of guy we want fighting for us?\*\* That one’s easy. No. > [@](#): > > \*\*To answer that question, we look at his bio. > > Twice Wounded in combat, plank owner in Delta Force, operated in Iran, Somalia, Panama, Grenada, Columbia, Haiti. Former Deputy director of special activities in the U.S. Army Element of the CIA. Former Commanding Officer of Delta Force. Former Commanding Officer of Special Operations. Former Commandant of the Special Warfare School.\*\* And this is relevant _how_ exactly. i don’t give two shits about his servoce record. He’s a fucking ignorant, dangerous shitstain and he needs to be relieved of duty. Now. > [@](#): > > **Frankly, I don’t give a flying fuck if he wears tutu’s on his own time and praises Gaia in uniform everyday on his way to and from the office. He is JUST the kind of professional bad ass I want on MY side in a war since he could probably disembowel you with a toothpick and build a bomb out of dental floss and gum wrappers. > He’s an operator. And I want him on MY side as apposed to sitting on the sidelines.** So you have a homoerotic fetish for military psychopaths. Bully for you. I think we need to keep the crazoids out of the military especially when they spew ignorant, bigoted and inciteful garbage about the people we’re supposed to be “liberating.” > [@](#): > > \*\*He clearly has a strong belief. That belief is fairly obviously part of what helps him cope with what he’s seen and been a part of. It helps him function and carry out missions for our nation in hell holes you and I can’t begin to imagine. I can’t begrudge him his belief given what he does and where he goes. Hell, maybe he knows something you and I don’t. \*\* He needs to keep his fucking bullshit, retarded beliefs to himself. Especially since those beliefs run directly counter to his official mission. More to the point, to look for perfection in anyone is an excercise in both pride and stupidity. It doesn’t exist, it never has existed, it never will exist. Get over his not being a perfect robot and accept him for what he is. A genuine bad-ass who paradoxically (or maybe quixotically) believes in the Love of Jesus Christ. Right now, we NEED the genuine article bad-asses like him regardless of how they view the afterlife. To remove him because of some unrelated political reason is to hamstring us all. It is to deprive us of his skills, knowledge and paid-for-in-blood wisdom. It is to throw away a useful, deadly weapon to use against our enemies because of some cosmetic detail some of us don’t like. To do that, WOULD be giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Regards, -Bouncer- \*\* [/QUOTE] It’s not “unrealated” at all, moron. It has a direct bearing on our immediate objectives. His bullshit remarks are not only insulting to Iraqis and others (like Turks) who are supposed to be our _allies_ in this war, not only are they insulting to Muslim men and women who serve in the US military, but they jeopardize American lives by severely undercutting the expressed motivations for the invasion and for the war on terror. This is no different than if a general in Somalia had started sounding off about how he knew that his “white” army would defeat those “black savages.” It’s dangerous, it’s inexcusable and it’s unacceptable. Welcome to the board, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Claptree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Claptree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claptree)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/45 "2003-10-20T18:36:12Z")
Hello Bouncer! ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/46 "2003-10-20T21:27:21Z")
More quotes from a [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/20/boykin.statement/index.html) article: [quote] … A former head of U.S. Army Special Forces who is involved in the search for Osama bin Laden, he said in a June speech to a Christian prayer group that radical Muslims hate the United States “because we’re a Christian nation, because our foundation and roots are Judeo-Christian and the enemy is a guy named Satan.” He also said that when dealing with a Somali warlord, “I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol.” … Boykin had told Pentagon officials he would stop making controversial speeches about his personal religious beliefs. The original language in his written statement read “the sensitivities of my job today dictate that further church speeches are inappropriate.” That portion of the statement was taken out in the final version distributed by the Pentagon press office. Among the other excluded language:[ul][li]_“I believe that God intervenes in the affairs of men, to include nations, as Benjamin Franklin so eloquently stated. Yes I believe that George Bush was placed in the White House by God as well as Bill Clinton and other presidents.” [/li] [li]_“As a Christian I believe that there is a spiritual war that is continuous as articulated in the Bible. It is not confined to the war of terrorism.” [/li] [li]\_“The evidence that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles is undeniable. We are a nation of many cultures and religions but the evidence of our foundation is historic.”[/ul][/li][/quote] This shithead should bear direct responsibility for any further Islamist terror attacks on American soil. He is a danger to us all. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/47 "2003-10-20T21:31:57Z")
My dog’s bigger than your dog, my dog’s bigger than yours. My dog’s bigger 'cause he eats K-L-Ration, my dog’s bigger than yours … oh wait, it said my _God’s_ bigger. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/48 "2003-10-20T22:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*There are athletes who say that God won games for them. > > I’ve also heard them say that God made them catch a ball or hit a three point shot at the buzzer, etc.\*\* They may be delusional (or maybe not), but not hateful. > [@](#): > > \*\*Kurt Warner said that Jesus broke Trent Green’s knee for him so Warner could “get an opportunity” to start for the Rams. Jesus is Jeff Gillooly. Who knew? > > A few months ago HBO’s _Real Sports_ did a segment on fundies in the NFL. It included interviews with non-Christian players and the harassment they received from Christians. One player related how his team taunted him after a victory in which the other team had missed a field goal at the end of the game. They told him that God had made the ball miss and that he couldn’t possibly deny this “miracle” as proof of God’s existence. > > It also talked about players blanketing locker rooms with tracts and pmaphlets but becoming insensed when one guy brought a copy of the Tao Te Ching into the facility. Those guys are scary. \*\* And had **Hyperelastic** stated that he was referring to those atheletes who beat others over the head with their faith or are hateful about expressing it, then I wouldn’t have had a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/49 "2003-10-20T22:28:31Z")
“He needs to keep his fucking bullshit, retarded beliefs to himself.” -Diogenes the Cynic Ahh… the real reasoning behind your viewpoint emerges. It’s NOT about his job or his record, his speaking or anything else. It’s about his “bullshit, retarded beliefs”. And I am an asshole for disagreeing with you. One must wonder if that means you are a fuckwit stump dumb knuckle dragging cracker, for disagreeing with me. Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, he’s not going anywhere. All your raging aside. Thanks for the welcome! Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/50 "2003-10-20T22:30:27Z")
Hi Claptree! How ya been! Stop by IRC once in a while. 🙂 Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/51 "2003-10-20T23:27:29Z")
[quote] Ahh… the real reasoning behind your viewpoint emerges. It’s NOT about his job or his record, his speaking or anything else. It’s about his “bullshit, retarded beliefs”.[//quote] No, it’s about giving speeches which not only contradict the stated goals of his CIC but which also endanger Americans and insult our allies as well as his own troops. > [@](#): > > And I am an asshole for disagreeing with you. No, you’re an asshole for defending hate speech. > [@](#): > > Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, he’s not going anywhere. All your raging aside. That depends on if he keeps his mouth shut. This administration will not tolerate political liabilities. Remember Trent Lott. > [@](#): > > Thanks for the welcome! you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/52 "2003-10-21T00:40:22Z")
**Bouncer** > [@](#): > > With respect, I’d tend to disgree. On a splitting hairs basis he wasn’t in Full Dress Unifrom, more likely his Class A uniform. I only raise the point because you’re inferring a sense of authority present in the uniform. At that point it does become a little more than semantics to mention the difference. Still, we’ll call it his Class A’s unless you really want to verbally spar over it. > > \ > > Trust me when I say the latter imparts a lot more authority than the former to the average civilian. But enough of that. It doesn’t matter if he’s in his dress blues, class A, BDU, or in a pink tutu with a dildo shoved up his ass. Unless things have changed drastically in the twenty years since I served, his authority is in the stars he wears on his uniform, not which uniform he’s wearing. If his conduct undermines the mission of the United States, like say enraging our Middle Eastern allies and fueling the terrorist’s fire by dissing Allah, it is at a minimum conduct unbecoming of a General Officer. Army policy is (or at least used to be) that while in uniform or civilian clothing, a soldier will conduct himself as a soldier 24/7/365, whether he’s on base, in the battlefield, on leave, IN CHURCH, or anywhere else. I doubt that President Bush\* is able to grasp the consequences of the General’s foolish remarks, and I expect little, if anything to be done about it. If anything, President Bush\* probably thinks those were some darn good remarks. Welcome to the SDMB, **Bouncer**! ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/53 "2003-10-21T02:04:03Z")
Hey thanks E72521, You’ve a point, still, since the CJCOS has himself in the past addressed prayer breakfasts in Uniform it’d be a bit surprising if they did an about face on Boykin. I don’t think Boykin (or the US Army) cares much if he irritates Somali warlords (Which is WHO he was addressing with his “My god is greater than yours” comment). It’s about context. He was speaking to an enemy combatant, not an Islamic prayer group or a group of Mullahs. He then retold the anecdote at various times to make a point to the people to whom he was speaking. He wasn’t addressing the General Assembly of the United Nations. He was speaking to evangelical christians. If you take the comment out of context, away from both the time it was spoken and the person(s) to whom it was spoken, then you can spin it all kinds of ways. It’s hate speech, it’s this speech, it’s that speech. But the problem with that of course is that we could all go rushing around finding comments from anyone on just about anything and spin it into some sort of “hate speech”. Which is pretty much what has happened here. “My comments to Osman Otto in Mogadishu were not referencing his worship of Allah but his worship of money and power; idolatry. He was a corrupt man, not a follower of Islam.” > **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. …“I’m sad to say a lot of Somalis were killed as we went after Osman Atto. But we missed him by seconds. He walked out of the facility that we raided, he walked down the street and blended in with the crowd and we missed him. “And then he went on CNN and he laughed at us, and he said, ‘They’ll never get me because Allah will protect me. Allah will protect me.’”…Three days later we went after him again, and this time we got him. Not a mark on him. We got him… "I looked at him and said, ‘Are you Osman Atto?’ And he said ‘Yes.’ And I said, ‘Mr. Atto, you underestimated our God.’” > **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. He was basically giving an “in your face” type comment to a captured warlord. A man who is probably responsible for the deaths of thousands or even tens of thousands of people in his own country. He then retold that story to others. If being sassy to a captured warlord is the worst of Boykins crimes on this planet than he probably a better man than most of us here. Still, I take your point that someone somewhere might find something anyone says at any time to be offensive. Because effectively, isn’t that’s what you’re saying? The complaint seems to be “don’t give them another excuse to hate us”. But the thing is, that those who hate us will hate us regardless of any member of the military (or even civilian politicians). It gets into why they hate pluralistic societies, and that’s a debate for another time. But the point is that no matter what you do, or how you gag Boykin (or anyone else) they will STILL find a reason. As for me, while I don’t share his views, I’d rather have him fighting for us than not on a purely selfish, practical level. He has the training, skills, and experience. He can do damage to our enemies, and that’s what we pay him and the Army for. Further, I doubt any Muslims are going to change their minds about the US or the West based on him. Those who want to use it as an excuse will. But, as above, they would anyways. If he were a deaf mute then it’d be Bush, if not Bush, then Rumsfeld, and if not Rumsfeld… well. the list goes on and on. Thanks for the polite commentary. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054/54 "2003-10-21T02:10:20Z")
> [@](#): > > [Pentagon deleted part of official’s apology](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/20/boykin.statement/index.html) > > An apology from Lt. Gen. William Boykin for casting the war on terrorism in terms that offended some Muslims originally included a promise that he would no longer speak at religious events, CNN has learned. > > But that language was deleted on the advice of Pentagon attorneys and the press office, a Pentagon spokesman said. > > Among the other excluded language: > > • “I believe that God intervenes in the affairs of men, to include nations, as Benjamin Franklin so eloquently stated. Yes I believe that George Bush was placed in the White House by God as well as Bill Clinton and other presidents.” > > • “As a Christian I believe that there is a spiritual war that is continuous as articulated in the Bible. It is not confined to the war of terrorism.” > > • “The evidence that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles is undeniable. We are a nation of many cultures and religions but the evidence of our foundation is historic.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assbag-general-says-that-bush-was-chosen-by-god-to-lead-the-fight-against-satan-qu/208054.md?page=2)