# Asshat Martha Stewart to Face Criminal Indictment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561 "2003-06-04T12:03:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/81 "2003-06-05T12:16:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **so it’s not possible (or not likely) that had Martha not sold her stock that day, some of those buyers of that stock wouldn’t have been able to buy any?** Not at the small quantity Martha was trading. Specialists would have easily made up the difference. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jk1245 \* > **So Dewey, what should be the cutoff for illegal insider trades then? 5000? 10,000? 100,000? > The point is she illegally profited from information that the general public did not have. That’s insider trading.** I never said there should be a cutoff. Although I am skeptical of tippee liability for insider trading as a matter of policy, it can be justified on confidence-in-the-market grounds. My only point was that the claim that people who purchased ImClone on the day Stewart sold were financially harmed by her sale is fallacious.\*\* > [@](#): > > She then ordered others to interfere with the investigation and destroy evidence, not to mention the securities fraud charge against her is related to her own company rather than ImClone. The fact that she did all this to realize an insignificant (to her) profit really doesn’t matter.\*\* As per the above, please point out where I said the size of her profit matters to the determination of her criminal liability. I was disputing a factual claim, not denying criminal liability. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/82 "2003-06-05T12:16:42Z")
She’s getting in trouble like this simply because she’s a highly successful woman who pissed off the big boys earlier in her career and now they’re out to get her. Sure she’s a bitch, but that’s how she made her billions. I don’t like Martha Stewart that much either, but men do this kind of thing all the time and never get called on it like this. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/83 "2003-06-05T12:19:15Z")
She made her billions by being a bitch? I’m sure you don’t believe that. Isn’t it a tad more likely she made them by showing people how to be better homemakers? Wasn’t that her raison d’etre?? Good God. If it were possible to make billions simply by being a bitch . . . 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/84 "2003-06-05T12:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*I read an interview with a college dean at a woman’s college where Martha Stewart had spoken for a graduation (can’t remember where I read this, sorry, it was in a doctor’s waiting room, so it could have been anything from Psychology Today to Golf Digest). > > At any rate, one woman asked Martha a question something like this "don’t you think that you are presenting an impossible standard for women to live up to? They are supposed to be successful at work, home, and handmake beautiful crafts (etc etc). Martha, in her best snooty voice answered “oh, get over it”. \*\* “Oh, get over it” is EXACTLY the appropriate response to that kind of ridiculous question. High standards should be applauded. If you can’t meet them (and Lord knows, there’s no shame in not meeting the Martha Stewart standard), and appropriate response is NOT to suggest that the bar be lowered for everybody. **Monkey With A Gun** nailed this one exactly. Sure, no one complains about Bob Vila, but then _no one asks Bob Vila that kind of stupid fucking question_. If 'ol Bob ever was asked if he was setting too high a standard for Do-It-Yourselfers, I’d hope his reply would be “oh, get over it.” Also: You READ the interview, and yet from that you could glean Martha used her “best snooty voice?” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![45\_70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/5f9b8f/32.png) [@45\_70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/45_70)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/85 "2003-06-05T13:02:20Z")
They have to have Martha at the country club first. Decorating always takes precidence over population. When they finally get around to the Ken Lays, would you want them coming to a plain barren facility. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/86 "2003-06-05T13:58:13Z")
**Guinistasia** , did you miss the fucking part where I said “ **SHE AND HER STAFF** are very talented?” Just because my house won’t look exactly Martha’s doesn’t mean I can’t take some of her projects and do them (which I have). I’ve made my own garlands for christmas, I intend to paint my new condo using her colors. She has the best cornbread recipe on the planet, not to mention her shortbread. Here’s a tip: I’m not an idiot who thinks I can do everything Martha does. I can pick and choose what I CAN do and be proud of it. If my house is even an QUARTER as beautiful and organized as hers, I’ll consider myself a success. I take great pride in my home and making it comfortable and beautiful for my guests. Martha, more importantly took a catering company that she started BY HERSELF (read _Entertaining_) and turned it into a billion dollar company. I, too am starting a catering company…and I continue to look to Martha for tips and ideas on how to improve it. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/87 "2003-06-05T14:00:29Z")
Maybe you could look to her for stockmarket tips, too… ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/88 "2003-06-05T14:01:58Z")
I’m already in the stockmarket. Is it possible to enjoy one aspect of someone’s life without condoning every part of it, dantheman? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/89 "2003-06-05T14:14:09Z")
Sure. I enjoy your posts, but I don’t condone every single thing you do in your life. Cmon, I was just being snarky. ---
**Author:** ![Macro\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Macro\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macro_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/90 "2003-06-05T14:16:50Z")
Dewey, You have yet to answer the question I have been asking you. Here it is again, in simple terms: If other investors didn’t soak up her allegedly illegal aversion of financial loss, who did? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/91 "2003-06-05T14:20:56Z")
I apologize, dan. I’ve just been cast in the unlikely role of defending martha to EVERY SINGLE ONE of my family and friends over the past few days. Ten emails: “WHAT ABOUT YOUR MARTHA STEWART NOW???” I’d still love to write her a letter and ask for her advice on starting a catering business, because I admire her entrepreneurial spirit. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/92 "2003-06-05T14:24:03Z")
Well, it’s better to admire her for her entrepreneurial spirit than for her attitude and whatnot, but that applies to almost everyone. For example, there are people on here (no, go on!) who don’t exactly post in a gregarious manner at all times. However, sometimes - no, often - what they do post is insightful and bears repeating. Therefore it’s smart to admire these people for their wisdom and perception while not condoning their actions. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/93 "2003-06-05T14:24:20Z")
\*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > [@](#): > > Martha Stewart’s high-profile prosecution is just cover so a lot of middle-aged white guys in suits can walk free and clear after committing crimes that make hers pale into insignificance. While the spotlight’s on her, guys like Ken Lay will be slinking around in the shadows, negotiating deals, calling in favors and generally getting away with the financial equivalent of murder. Yep, the SEC chose a celeb at random and at Ken Lay’s bidding in order that he be permitted further access to funds of the company he no longer runs that’s in Chapter 11 and under incredible public and governmental scrutiny. Yes sireee Bob! There’s nobody the SEC want’s more than Ken Lay. They’re building their case where they can, following the evidence and prosecuting provable criminal behaviour, applying pressure on subordinates in the know who hopefully will crack and testify against Lay in a plea bargain deal. The SEC hasn’t forgotton about Enron. It’s financial dealings were very complex, necessitating the same in the prosecution. Martha got a call from her broker with inside information not available to the public and in the same phone call instructed him to sell all her shares, a clear and very obvious violation. She shouldn’t be prosecuted because the SEC is still working to build it’s case against other, more egregious violaters? Her prosecution is somehow a smokescreen concocted to enable Lay, Fastow and Shilling to get off? Bwhaaaaaa! ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/94 "2003-06-05T14:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\ ***Guinistasia** , did you miss the fucking part where I said “ **SHE AND HER STAFF** are very talented?” \*\* Really??? I think you just put a smile on the face of every girl at Rikers. This will be the best thing for them since…Amy Fisher. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/95 "2003-06-05T14:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Martha, more importantly took a catering company that she started BY HERSELF (read Entertaining) and turned it into a billion dollar company She started the catering business with a friend who she stabbed in the back and took control of the business from. Read **Martha, Inc** by Christopher Byron and **Martha Stewart: Just Desserts** , by Jerry Oppenheimer for the full story. It’s fine to admire her drive and business skills, but you should also remember that Martha bulldozed anyone who got in her way–family, friends, and business associates alike. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/96 "2003-06-05T14:31:33Z")
And if a man did that, it would be called Ambition. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/97 "2003-06-05T14:34:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Macro Man \* > \*\*Dewey, > You have yet to answer the question I have been asking you. Here it is again, in simple terms: > If other investors didn’t soak up her allegedly illegal aversion of financial loss, who did? \*\* Those investors would have bought the same number of shares at the same price even if Stewart hadn’t sold. They didn’t “soak up” anything. They would have ended up in exactly the same financial position had Stewart elected not to sell. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/98 "2003-06-05T14:36:05Z")
Look. My bottom line is. She’s a bitch to people. Yes. I realize that. I joke about it. It’s funny. She also has done FANTASTIC AND WONDERFUL things, and being a bitch is certainly not a crime. She made a mistake with the stocks, and was greedy and overly ambitious. Doesn’t mean I’m going to throw out all her books and stop making home made gnocchi. And by the way. I wouldn’t let anyone take over my catering business either. It’s MINE and I created it. ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/99 "2003-06-05T14:41:06Z")
Martha Stewart reminds me of that Anal Retentive Chef character on SNL. I am _so_ the anti-Martha. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561/100 "2003-06-05T14:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > **She has the best cornbread recipe on the planet…** Wrong. My grandmother’s cornbread recipe is much, much better. Sure, she was a hateful bitch, but man, could she make some cornbread. I will brook no debate. 😃 You are correct, in large part, about Martha Stewart, and why people dislike her, but I think there’s an additional problem in this specific instance- she’s a gazillionaire, and was involved in some admittedly shady dealing concerning a relatively minor amount of money. (at least, for someone as wealthy as she). Nothing wrong with being concerned with one’s $$$, of course, but this rubbed me the wrong way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-martha-stewart-to-face-criminal-indictment/179561.md?page=6)