# AssHat U.S. Soldiers looting Iraq just like Iraqis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666 "2003-04-23T19:26:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/41 "2003-04-24T01:47:37Z")
I distinctly recall that “war souveniers” aren’t permitted. That was yet another thing the Drill Sergeants drilled into our heads back in 1979. The Senior Drill Sergeant was fond of saying, “If it ain’t yours, it ain’t yours. Do not take it.” ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/42 "2003-04-24T01:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke of Rat \* > \*\*Of course I’m not condoning looting a country, just giving reference to another instance. There seem to be “asshat soldiers” in every war, **PS** , not just the wars you oppose…unless you also oppose the premise of WWII. \*\* Oh, I understand that, hell the Russians raped and looted their way through Berlin. It just seems that these AssHats didn’t take into account that their theft would stir up anti-American fervor even more, which is something I don’t think anybody wants. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/43 "2003-04-24T02:09:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Bdbdbdbdbdbd…Buck. The immortal words of Twiggy are my Muse. > \*\* You follow the words of an ultra-thin fashion model?! Methinks you might, MIGHT have meant “Twiki.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/44 "2003-04-24T02:13:27Z")
Just for the heck of it, I think one or more of these articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice could apply in the situation under discussion (I’ve snipped the irrelevant parts & quoted it from [http://www.military-network.com/main\_ucmj/main\_ucmj.htm:](http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/main_ucmj.htm:) > [@](#): > > Article 99 - Misbehavior Before the Enemy > Any person subject to this chapter who before or in the presence of the enemy– > > (6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage; > > shall be punished by death or such punishment as a court-martial may direct. > [@](#): > > Article 103 - Captured or Abandoned Property > (a) All persons subject to this chapter will secure all public property taken from the enemy for the service of the United States, and shall give notice and turn over to the proper authority without delay all captured or abandoned property in their possession, custody, or control. > > (b) Any person subject to this chapter who– > > (1) fails to carry out the duties prescribed in subsection (a); > > (a) buys, sells, trades, or in any way deals in or disposes of captured or abandoned property, whereby he receives or expects any profit, benefit, or a advantage to himself or another directly or indirectly connected with himself; or > > (b) engages in looting or pillaging; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. > [@](#): > > Article 121 - Larceny and Wronful Appropriation > > (a) Any person subject to this chapter who wrongfully takes, obtains, or withholds, by any means, from the possession of the owner or of any other person any money, personal property, or article of value of any kind– > > (1) with intent permanently to deprive or defraud another person of the use and benefit of property or to appropriate it to his won [sic] use or the use of any person other than the owner, steals that property and is guilty of larceny; or > > (2) with intent to temporarily to deprive or defraud another person of the use and benefit of property or to appropriate to his own use the use of any person other than the owner, is guilty of wrongful appropriation. > > (b) Any person found guilty of larceny or wrongful appropriation shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. 99(6) and 103(b)(1)(b) seems to be the most on point. Please remember that it is also an offense to obey an unlawful order. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/45 "2003-04-24T02:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\*You follow the words of an ultra-thin fashion model?! > > Methinks you might, MIGHT have meant “Twiki.” 😉 \*\* GOD-PUPPY-RAPING-DAMNIT!!! That _Buck Rogers_ reference was all I had. That was my entire bag, and now, nothing. I didn’t even know about the emaciated Ms. Lawson until now. May she bdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdb-Burn in hell. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/46 "2003-04-24T04:21:29Z")
I have a vague memory about a policy either in Vietnam or WWII of doing random searches through the belongings of soldiers shipping home. The punishment for being caught with contraband was to be turned around and sent backk for another tour. Has anyone heard of that before? Or did I dream it? ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/47 "2003-04-24T04:44:13Z")
Archie Gates and Troy Barlow were unavailable for comment. ---
**Author:** ![Xgemina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b5e925/32.png) [@Xgemina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xgemina)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/48 "2003-04-24T12:12:33Z")
> [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** > I have a vague memory about a policy either in Vietnam or WWII of doing random searches through the belongings of soldiers shipping home. The punishment for being caught with contraband was to be turned around and sent backk for another tour. > > Has anyone heard of that before? Or did I dream it? I don’t know about Vietnam but I can tell you that in Gulf I every soldier in 3AD was searched before we got on the plane for Germany. We were taken to a huge aircraft hanger and had to dump and spread all of our gear while MPs and dogs went through our baggage. Those found with contraband were given a field grade Article 15. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/49 "2003-04-24T12:15:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*A bit o’ plunder does the heart good. This sort of thing has happened since, oh, lets say since the beginning of organized warfare? \*\* the fact that something has been around since a certain point in time, does not justify the reason for its existence. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/50 "2003-04-24T12:42:54Z")
These guys stole about $100,000. They’ll be breaking rocks for quite a few years. the US Army frowns on stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/51 "2003-04-24T13:28:04Z")
So as we all line up to profess our “support for the troops” … does that _include_ the looters and thieves, or no? “I support our troops (except for the criminals)!” seems such a mouthful. Still, better they lift a little cash than dump Iraqi babies out of incubators. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/52 "2003-04-24T14:13:54Z")
[Air Force, Central Command set war trophy policy](http://www.af.mil/news/Apr2003/42103102.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/53 "2003-04-24T14:21:28Z")
Nobody got “sent back for another tour” as punishment. What’s more likely is that they were held over for NJP/court-martial. ---
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/54 "2003-04-25T00:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CLedet \* > \*\*When did President Bush refer to this war as a **game**? The only person I’m aware of that did that was Iraqs U.N. rep. \*\* Maybe and most probably I should take back that word. In the meantime, may I search for any such use of ‘game’ by Bush in referring to the War on Iraq. I will let you know and definitely take back my word, if I can’t find such a text and no one knowledgeable can help me either. Please be patient. Susma Rio Sep ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Hand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mr.Hand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Hand)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/55 "2003-04-25T02:32:34Z")
This is a path dependent thing. Traditionally, armies were forbidden to loot; to do so violates the law of nations. (And if you really want me to, I can dig out my copy of Vattel’s treatise and give you citations.) But the navy did not have such a policy; naval officers were permitted to claim seized goods and vessels under the law of prize. (Also, remember privateering?) Perhaps a naval doper will confirm or deny that the modern navy still recognizes the law of prize. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/56 "2003-04-25T03:17:10Z")
I’m very disappointed in the Air Force’s policy. It seems to me that the “powers that be” have caved into a very base thing. That’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/57 "2003-04-25T03:19:02Z")
Mr. Hand: I’m a “Naval Doper.” I have already quoted what I believe are the relevant punitive articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. In the United States, the Navy is subject to the same law as the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/58 "2003-04-25T10:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CLedet \* > \*\*When did President Bush refer to this war as a **game**? The only person I’m aware of that did that was Iraqs U.N. rep. \*\* Can these quotes courtesy of UncleBill at GQ be relevant to my allegation? * * * March 16, at the summit in the Azores, he said: ``` quote:And this game that he is playing is, frankly, a game that he has played over the last 12 years. Disarmament never happens. But instead, the international community is drawn into some perpetual negotiation, gestures designed to divide the international community, but never real and concrete cooperation leading to disarmament. ``` Feb 7,: ``` quote:George W Bush said: "The game is over" and said Saddam must act now if he wants to avoid a military attack. ``` March 8: ``` quote:Iraqi operatives continue to play a shell game with inspectors, moving suspected prohibited materials to different locations every 12 to 24 hours. And Iraqi weapons scientists continue to be threatened with harm should they cooperate in interviews with U.N. inspectors. ``` * * * CLedet, thanks for your patience. Susma Rio Sep ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/59 "2003-04-25T11:34:09Z")
Allegation: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep \* > **And Bush uses the word ‘game’ to refer to his war on Iraq or more precisely against Saddam and company – but the Iraqi nation is the victim just the same.** Nope. All talking about Saddam playing a game. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666/60 "2003-04-25T12:16:43Z")
Well as long as they leave something for the Iraqi looters, those buggers might actually desrve something back! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asshat-u-s-soldiers-looting-iraq-just-like-iraqis/170666.md?page=4)