# Assholes drive cars too. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686 "2004-10-05T18:06:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/21 "2004-10-05T22:06:16Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Point is, it’s possible for the circuit to entirely short out thus disabling all the switches. Sorry, I didn’t get that at all from the link. Where does it say that can happen? > [@](#): > > As for the transmission and brakes, this guy was in the middle of traffic at 120MPH. Doing anything to mess up his car’s handling would have been disasterous. Obviously not, since he drove for 125 miles with the car in that condition. It’s inconceivable to me that he drove for 125 miles, all the while trying to stop the car, then “finally” was able to stop it simply by applying the brakes. What exactly prevented him from doing so in the first place? My bet is that the only problem with that car was the nut behind the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/22 "2004-10-05T22:09:56Z")
> [@Fat Bald Guy](#): > > For some reason, I always have read it as “Sp **r** ing Ears” Me too. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/23 "2004-10-05T22:16:09Z")
Yeah I caught this on slashdot. I can’t wait for the investigation to finish. Seems like an interesting problem if there is one. As for putting the car in neutral etc. If this car had a key card starter it probably also had all sorts of “computer control” components. Computers regularly override driver input (traction control anyone?). I remember being both amazed and frightened that the new 300M track test I went to “showed off” this feature (brake assist traction control). Sure, for a bad driver it might save their ass but as an autox driver it felt really really weird having the computer do all the work. If the computer crapped out (or rather, if the computer determined I needed “help” when I didn’t) I could see a problem like this. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/24 "2004-10-05T22:30:53Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Sorry, I didn’t get that at all from the link. Where does it say that can happen? Granted, it’s not in the link but that’s the general reson behind the recall. > [@](#): > > _It’s inconceivable to me that he drove for 125 miles, all the while trying to stop the car, then “finally” was able to stop it simply by applying the brakes. What exactly prevented him from doing so in the first place?_ He didn’t simply apply the brakes, he stomped on them as hard as he could. If he’s being truthful, he probably tried applying the brakes several times during that hour but only felt the need to _stomp_ them when that toll booth came in sight. By that time, it’s likely that the police were able to clear the highway so he wouldn’t pose a danger to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/25 "2004-10-05T22:34:13Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Oops, didn’t see this before. Didn’t mean to imitate what you said. Sorry about that. Hehe! Great minds think alike 😛 ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/26 "2004-10-06T00:45:44Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > And now is as good a time as any to mention that every time I see your name I read it as “Sping Ears” instead of Spin Gears, for some ungodly reason. [hijack] :: reads post :: :: looks up at the mentioned poster’s name :: Holy shit! :eek: It ISN’T spring ears! [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/27 "2004-10-06T00:52:31Z")
No, it isn’t Spring Ears; I noticed this a while back, but it still catches me out now and again. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/28 "2004-10-06T03:21:47Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] That didn’t take long. > [@](#): > > A Note on Automobile Cruise Control Faults and Sudden Acceleration > Dec 1999 : “2000 Ford Focus (31,000 vehicles) recalled because the speed control cable end fitting can allow water to enter the speed control servo assembly. If this occurs corrosion the servo assembly could develop and cause intermittent speed control operation or prevent the throttle from returning to idle. A throttle that does not return to idle could result in unexpected acceleration, increasing the risk of a crash.” first off you are reading more into this quote than is there. A throttle that does not return to idle does not mean that the throttle suddenly opens wider, it means that when you lift your foot (or in this case disengage the cruise by hitting the brake) the throttle stays at the same opening that it has been. This is not what I would call sudden acceleration, just a serious lack of decelleration. (there is a difference!) Real world examples: I used to own an old Plymouth Fury. Driving it in the snow entailed using a set throttle opening for long periods of time. After 10 minutes or so the throttle linkage would freeze, and when I took my foot off the gas the car would continue at the same speed as before. This is a failure to return to idle. Since the car did not increase its speed in any way I cannot describe this as acceleration intended or otherwise. Compare that to a TR-7 I got to work on once with a complaint of a sticking throttle. I pulled the car into my stall and cheked the throttle linkage (cable) from end to end. All was OK. I took the car for a test drive. I did a full throttle takeoff when I went to shift, and lifted my right foot, the revs kept climbing. :eek: This of course kept the speed increasing. since I was driving a stick, and my left foot was over the clutch, there was no doubt that this was not pedal mis-application. Anyway to make a long story short, the last guy that worked on the car left some debris (poppet valve of the air meter) in the intake trunk. :wally During a full throttle run this debris would get sucked into the throttle and jam it wide open causing the car to accelerate. Furthermore if the corooded cruise on the ford in question caused the idle to stick 50 RPM higher than normal it can be described as “not returning to idle”. Lastly about this guys website, you do realize that he is a hired gun (ex-spurt witness) for trial lawyers don’t you? Now back to the OP. I also have my BS meter stuck firmly in the red zone. Again I don’t work on Renaults (thank OG!) but every cruise system I have ever seen has two or three different way to disengage the damn thing PLUS the power switch! Let me describe the operation of one of the cruise system I work on When you step on the brake the following happens: Power to the cruise unit is interupted (One switch) Ground to the cruise unit is interupted (different switch, this one is the brake light switch) Vacuum to the servo is vented seperate part of the first switch And if somehow all three of those actions failed, you could turn off the power at the turn signal switch. Or kick it into netural and the same thing would happen. On the newer full electronic system there are even MORE safeguards. (At least on my cars) I think this guy wanted to drive real fast and not get a ticket. I guarentee that right about now his car is being looked at by more engineers that most of us have ever seen. > [@](#): > > As for putting the car in neutral etc. If this car had a key card starter it probably also had all sorts of “computer control” components. Computers regularly override driver input (traction control anyone?). I remember being both amazed and frightened that the new 300M track test I went to “showed off” this feature (brake assist traction control). Sure, for a bad driver it might save their ass but as an autox driver it felt really really weird having the computer do all the work. If the computer crapped out (or rather, if the computer determined I needed “help” when I didn’t) I could see a problem like this. Again I am no expert on Chrysler traction systems, but on the one on the cars I teach on I can say without contridiction that the computer can handle the traction/suspension/stability far better than you can. Unless of course your name is Michael Shumacher. The shocks revalve themselves once every 500 times a second. How long does it take you to change 4 shocks? 🙂 The stability control system makes a decision every 7 milliseconds after looking at the steering input, brake input, throttle input, yaw of the car, lateral G force, Roll G force and calculates if the car is going where the driver has it pointed. A good race driver has maybe a .1oo second reaction time. The computer has already gone through 14 decision cycles and implemented action on them by the time the driver does one. So what happens if it breaks? Any fault in any sensor, or subsytem turns the entire system off, and sets warning lights off all over the dash along with messages. At worst you would be no worse off than if the system were not there. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/29 "2004-10-06T15:12:23Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > first off you are reading more into this quote than is there. A throttle that does not return to idle does not mean that the throttle suddenly opens wider, it means that when you lift your foot (or in this case disengage the cruise by hitting the brake) the throttle stays at the same opening that it has been. This is not what I would call sudden acceleration, just a serious lack of decelleration. (there is a difference!) Actually, there’s more to the story that what’s at that site. > [@](#): > > [Essays: Sudden Acceleration & Stuck Throttles](http://mfes.com/suddenaccel.html) > Some research has shown that the newness of a car to the operator can affect the frequency of S/A reports (less familiarity increases the likelihood). S/A reports are more common during the period immediatly after the operator climbed into the car, perhaps as a result of not yet being “attuned” to the pedal locations in that particular vehicle. Additionally, age seems to be related to the frequency of S/A reports, as shown by research reported by NHTSA. > > Though I generally cannot dispute the possibility of transient electrical gremlins having engaged the cruise unexpectedly (on vehicles so equipped), a firmly planted left foot should be able to stop pretty much any car, unless there is a brake problem. Some reports on this issue have come from Automotive News (May 15, 2000, which is no longer accessible online to non-subscribers) and a Feb 10, 2000, MSNBC News article (which is also no longer available online, sadly). The primary pundit in these articles was Mr. Sero, who averred that the cruise control servos in some pre-1995 Fords have the potential to pull the throttle wide open as a result of one loose wire and one shorted wire. If the brake-pedal travel switch (or dump valve) is not functional, then brake application won’t release the cruise. Mr. Sero has admitted that he has never actually found a car that had done this, but simply that his analysis showed it was possible. So far, I haven’t seen this problem either, but there are reports that Ford has told service technicians who call in with a sudden acceleration problem to check these wires for nicks or damage. This is certainly something to keep in mind when investigating such an allegation. Verifying that wires are tight, clean, and in good condition, and that the brake-pedal switch functions as intended should allow an investigator to either support or refute the existence of this problem. Granted that’s pre-1995 models but the potential may exist elsewhere. That site mentions another possiblity: stuck throttles. According to [The Center for Auto Safety](http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=125&did=887), the National Highway Traffic Administration has been investigating claims of sudden acceleration due to defective electronic throttles in Lexus cars and Toyotas. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/30 "2004-10-06T15:45:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > No, it isn’t Spring Ears; I noticed this a while back, but it still catches me out now and again. Man get out , and stop touting your mangy skin disease 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/31 "2004-10-06T15:51:59Z")
Well I am highly relieved that I’m not the only one who can’t read his name right. What annoys me most is, after the first few times I saw it (in various car-related threads) I realized what it really said, but I _still_ read it as Sping Ears. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/32 "2004-10-06T15:52:30Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > It was an ignition controlled by a magnetic swipe card as opposed to a key, he says he had no way of turning off the ignition. > > And now is as good a time as any to mention that every time I see your name I read it as “Sping Ears” instead of Spin Gears, for some ungodly reason. No-no-no. “Spring Ears”. Like a cross between a bunny & a Slinkee. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/33 "2004-10-06T16:44:52Z")
You know, in France they have cameras that take your picture if you’re speeding. I bet the guy got his picture taken and decided to make this story up. He slowed down when he got to a tollbooth. HA HA. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/34 "2004-10-06T18:21:59Z")
Sorry, Lute - I’m still skeptical. > [@](#): > > Mr. Sero has admitted that he has never actually found a car that had done this It sounds like what we’ve got is _one_ guy who was quoted in some articles (that mysteriously don’t exist any more), saying that _theoretically_, one particular model of Ford could have the throttle get stuck, and that _theoretically_, if the brake switch just happened to fail at the same time, you wouldn’t be able to disengage the cruise control. Except he never explains why you couldn’t simply turn off the cruise control switch (usually located on the turn signal stalk). I’m sure it’s _possible_ that this is a real case of unintended acceleration, but I seriously doubt it. It’s extremely rare for that to happen. It’s more likely that it’s one of the vast majority of such cases that turn out to be driver error, or deception. Like the woman who bought a shitty car and couldn’t get out of her lease, so she placed a fake 911 call pretending that her car was out of control. Apparently she thought she would get the company to take the car back. What a moron. > [@](#): > > He didn’t simply apply the brakes, he stomped on them as hard as he could. If he’s being truthful, he probably tried applying the brakes several times during that hour but only felt the need to stomp them when that toll booth came in sight. By that time, it’s likely that the police were able to clear the highway so he wouldn’t pose a danger to anyone. I don’t get it. If the car _really_ was out of control at 120 mph, you don’t think he would have “felt the need” to try as hard as he could to stop it? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/35 "2004-10-06T18:50:49Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Sorry, Lute - I’m still skeptical. No problem. So am I, I’m just saying that it’s possible that Monsieur Dequiedt isn’t just a speed demon looking for an excuse. Or maybe he’s just a good actor. > [@](#): > > [MSNBC](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6184673/) > The driver became increasingly sure he was about to die as his top-of-the-range model raced towards a toll station on the A71 motorway between Bourges and Clermont-Ferrand, the police officer who took the call on Sunday said. > > “He was panicking. He was doing between 180 kph and 200 kph all the time. He was doing 140 kph and then the car just accelerated away on its own,” officer Patrick Majerus said. > > The driver, Hicham Dequiedt, veered left and right to avoid traffic and even switched at times to the hard shoulder reserved for rescue vehicles, in order to avoid vehicles in his path. > > “He thought he was finished. I’m not surprised he was scared – it’s not easy to go through a toll station at 200 kph, the gap is pretty tight,” Majerus said. > [@](#): > > [Expatica](http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=58&story_id=12605&name=Renault+car+%91goes+berserk%92+while+cruising+French+motorway) > “The driver was really afraid - especially at one point when he had to overtake at 200 kilometres per hour on the emergency lane,” a police officer told AFP. Of course, Renault doesn’t buy his story; [Forbes](http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2004/10/06/ap1578811.html) reports the manufacturer found nothing wrong with the car and that they do not “not rule out suing him to seek compensation for damage to its brand reputation.” > [@blowero](#): > > I don’t get it. If the car really was out of control at 120 mph, you don’t think he would have “felt the need” to try as hard as he could to stop it? I never said he was out of control. What I was getting at is slamming on the brakes would have resulted in losing the ability to steer, which certainly wouldn’t be a good thing in the middle of a busy highway. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/36 "2004-10-06T19:08:23Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I never said he was out of control. The _article_ said he was out of control. > [@](#): > > What I was getting at is slamming on the brakes would have resulted in losing the ability to steer, which certainly wouldn’t be a good thing in the middle of a busy highway. If braking would have caused loss of steering ability, how is it that he succesfully did so at the toll booth, which arguably requires even more precise steering? I think you’re really reaching now. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/37 "2004-10-06T19:28:55Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > The article said he was out of control. I think we’re using different definitions of “out of control” here. He still had the ability to steer. > [@](#): > > _If braking would have caused loss of steering ability, how is it that he succesfully did so at the toll booth, which arguably requires even more precise steering?_ He stopped _before_ the toll booth and the area had been evacuated. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/38 "2004-10-06T19:39:11Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I think we’re using different definitions of “out of control” here. The definition I meant was simply that he supposedly couldn’t stop the car, and it was going 120 mph. By definition, that’s out of control. > [@](#): > > He still had the ability to steer.He stopped _before_ the toll booth and the area had been evacuated. I don’t see anywhere in the article where it says he was waiting for te area to be evacuated. All it says is this: > [@](#): > > Dequiedt managed, however, to alert police on his mobile phone. Messages warning other motorists of the danger were flashed up on screens that straddle the highway and over a traffic radio station, Le Parisien said. > > Finally, as he was bearing down on a toll booth, Dequiedt said he finally managed to bring the car to a halt – having raced down some 125 miles of highway between Vierzon and Riom in central France. > > “I stomped on the brakes as hard as I could and the car finally stopped,” he said. There’s nothing in there about his _waiting_ for the police to evacuate anyone. It only says he “finally” managed to stop the car, which implies that he had been trying all along. Did I miss the part where it says he didn’t _want_ to stop because he would lose steering control? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/39 "2004-10-06T19:47:19Z")
**blowero** , we’re arguing past each other. Put yourself in his place, what would you do if you suddenly found yourself rocketing down a busy highway at 120 MPH? You’d try to stop. What if you couldn’t stop without presenting a greater danger to everyone else around you (front, side, and behind)? Would you try to stop anyway or wait until you were sure it was safe to do so? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686/40 "2004-10-06T20:17:21Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > What if you couldn’t stop without presenting a greater danger to everyone else around you (front, side, and behind)? I don’t see that that was the case. He drove **125 MILES** before he stopped. If it were me, I would have tried to stop as soon as possible; I wouldn’t wait until a toll booth came up and then all of a sudden decide to stop. > [@](#): > > Would you try to stop anyway or wait until you were sure it was safe to do so? You’re only _assuming_ that he thought it unsafe to stop. It doesn’t say that in the article _at all_. This is too much speculation. Why don’t we wait until more information comes out? Until then, my bet is that there was nothing wrong with the car. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-drive-cars-too/267686.md?page=3)