# Assholes in old TV westerns **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429 "2018-01-25T02:47:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/21 "2018-01-25T19:20:46Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > What about Ben? How many women did he put in the ground? 😛 Being married to a Cartwright was a death sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/22 "2018-01-25T19:58:15Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > On _The Rifleman_, Lucas McCain was not an asshole. He was a stone cold killer psycho quite often though. [I dunno, this looks pretty arseholish.](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fark/images/8/89/The_Rifleman_magazine_cover_with_pedo_implications_thread_8987570.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160315184221) ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/23 "2018-01-25T19:59:48Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > On _The Rifleman_, Lucas McCain was not an asshole. He was a stone cold killer psycho quite often though. > > But then, North Fork always seemed to have a weekly order of assholes coming into town. Roughnecks who only came in to growl and leer and snarl for no reason. It was weird, they even had their own theme on the soundtrack. (Zoom in on scruffy louts) “BOM-BOM-BA-BOM-BOOOOOMMMM!!!” Have you ever been in a construction bar? Those leering assholes still exist (but don’t have any theme music). I suppose if you have never encountered true assholes, the western hero can seem cut from the same cloth. (Or like a psycho killer.) Again it is intent; Lucas never picked a fight, nor did he treat others with disrespect (unless they earned it), or took advantage of his toughness or abilities. He never bullied nor intimidated. He most certainly only used his abilities for good, but if you ever victimized his son, or the beloved people of his town— you my friend were in for an Old Testament style beat down. Lucas McCain has to be the most unfortunate guy to ever live. The biblical Job (about whom Lucas tells Mark in the pilot episode) must feel sorry for him. He lost his wife which is bad enough. Then he takes his young son west to give him a better life, bought a piece of land and went about his peaceful life. He didn’t go into law enforcement where he might be expected to participate in occasional gun play. He just tries to raise his crops and be a good citizen and time after time after time he gets caught in the most absurd instances of human cruelty toward other humans. Through it all, he sticks up for the little guy, the innocent, while he smites the evildoer with terrible vengeance. (Oh he can go Sam Jackson on your ass! But he never wants to; he wants to live in peace and harmony in a fair and decent society.) I suspect the producers might have had some skin in the Holocaust. They certainly had the capacity to see mankind being horrific to other men. They also produced THE BIG VALLEY, and both shows were littered with examples of how to treat individuals from outside groups with decency and respect. (These are some of the most valuable lessons I have ever been taught by the way, it was not the conventional wisdom in my neighborhood in the 1970’s.) Again these are morality tales, and the moral is often: we must resist injustice and cruelty at some point- even using force in extreme circumstance. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men (and women) to do nothing. Let’s be very clear, with Lucas McCain a resident, evil doers do not prevail in North Fork! (Of course evil always does try to reassert itself.) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/24 "2018-01-25T20:01:38Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Tonto means “stupid one” in Spanish. Kemo sabe can be understood as a deformation of _quiĂ©n sabe_ (who knows) or _el que mĂĄs sabe_ (he who knows best). The two names could be coincidence, but if they’re not, they pack enough assholism to keep a proctologist busy for a year. Food for thought: [http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/kemosabe.htm](http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/kemosabe.htm) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/25 "2018-01-25T20:16:52Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Tonto means “stupid one” in Spanish. Kemo sabe can be understood as a deformation of _quiĂ©n sabe_ (who knows) or _el que mĂĄs sabe_ (he who knows best). The two names could be coincidence, but if they’re not, they pack enough assholism to keep a proctologist busy for a year. In Spanish, yes, but not to the Lone Ranger. It is just a name. As for kemosabe- The Master speaks: > **[In the old Lone Ranger series, what did “kemosabe” mean?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342134/in-the-old-lone-ranger-series-what-did-kemosabe-mean)** _" kemosabe means “(trusty) scout.”_ > **[Tonto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto)** > > Tonto is a fictional character; he is the Native American (either Tonto Apache, Comanche, or Potawatomi) companion of the Lone Ranger, a popular American Western character created by George W. Trendle and Fran Striker. Tonto has appeared in radio and television series and other presentations of the characters' adventures righting wrongs in 19th-century western United States. > Tonto made his first appearance on the 11th episode of the radio show, which originated on the Detroit, Michigan, radio... ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/26 "2018-01-25T20:26:28Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Food for thought: > > [http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/kemosabe.htm](http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/kemosabe.htm) A Mohawk? Dude, you have to take Dave Barry with a few thousand kilograms of salt. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/27 "2018-01-25T20:35:05Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Paladin as a jerk I could agree with. 🙂 He’s often condescending and often doesn’t bother to explain what his solution is until he’s worked though all his machinations. But a jerk – or a dick, in the same way that Superman can be a bit of a dick 🙂 – is not an asshole. Anyone who thinks that an asshole isn’t also a dick is
never mind. 🙂 The last Have Gun Will Travel I saw, it was a water rights thing. A company was going to damn a waterway that supplied a town with water to get water to a new town. Paladin shows that the mayor of the first town was a dick; the company had offered land to replace the town. Not the buildings, just the land. Paladin doesn’t argue for a division of water rights division for the first town, he just proclaims the truth and takes for the Hotel Clarendon. The treacherous Mayor is left pondering his Wife’s grave, and like everyone else, wonders what they will do for houses on their new land, which is probably a swamp after the damn is built. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/28 "2018-01-25T20:37:20Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Food for thought: > > [http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/kemosabe.htm](http://www.tcnj.edu/~hofmann/kemosabe.htm) \*\*This \*\*is definitive: [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/6a/61/cb6a61a1990bcfd2995dc93c602bc59d.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/6a/61/cb6a61a1990bcfd2995dc93c602bc59d.jpg)😃 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/29 "2018-01-25T20:40:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A Mohawk? Dude, you have to take Dave Barry with a few thousand kilograms of salt. Yeah, in the original radio series, Tonto was a member of the Potawatomi tribe. > **[Tonto | Character](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto#Character)** > > Tonto made his first appearance on the 11th episode of the radio show The Lone Ranger. Two conflicting origin stories have been given for the character Tonto and how he came to work with the Lone Ranger. As originally presented, in the December 7, 1938, radio broadcast,\[citation needed\] Reid had already been well established as the Lone Ranger when he met Tonto. In that episode Cactus Pete, a friend of the Lone Ranger's, tells the story of how the masked man and Tonto first met. According to t A ... ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/30 "2018-01-25T20:42:45Z")
Watch **this commercial** first: Now watch \*\*this one\*\*: Those thrilling days of yesteryear! :o ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/31 "2018-01-25T20:44:32Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yeah, in the original radio series, Tonto was a member of the Potawatomi tribe. > > [Tonto - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto#Character) Should have known he was a [sconnie](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sconnie)! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/32 "2018-01-25T20:53:47Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > [1989 Weetabix commercial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPTn44ibRM&app=desktop) > > Oh, yes they did! That’s not Tonto and the Lone Ranger! Those are professional Tonto-and-Lone-Ranger impersonators, and not very good ones, either. :dubious: Watching professional Tonto-and-Lone-Ranger impersonators is like paying top dollar to see Elvis in Las Vegas and getting stuck with a cheap imitation who can’t sing! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/33 "2018-01-25T20:56:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Should have known he was a [sconnie](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sconnie)! Having spent 18 gawdawful months living in Wisconsin back in the '80s, I think “Cheesehead” is a much more apt appelation. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/34 "2018-01-25T20:56:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Being married to a Cartwright was a death sentence. Ain’t that the truth!! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/35 "2018-01-25T20:58:35Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > Lucas never picked a fight, nor did he treat others with disrespect (unless they earned it), or took advantage of his toughness or abilities. He never bullied nor intimidated. He most certainly only used his abilities for good, but if you ever victimized his son, or the beloved people of his town— you my friend were in for an Old Testament style beat down. 
 Which explains why he spent every evening at home reading the Bible after blowing the bad guys away with his rifle. :o ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/36 "2018-01-25T21:12:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > And: > Cy Tolliver > Francis Wolcott\* > Jack McCall\* > George Hearst > > \*One actor, two assholes > > **Jake Spoon in Lonesome Dove** It has been ages since I read and/or watched Lonesome Dove. Was Jake Spoon the one who killed the sodbusters? Shot 'em, hanged 'em, then burned 'em, IIRC. Yeah, what an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/37 "2018-01-25T21:17:25Z")
If Nellie Oleson can be considered an asshole, what was Harriet Oleson? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/38 "2018-01-25T21:28:24Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Watch **this commercial** first: > > Now watch \*\*this one\*\*: > > Those thrilling days of yesteryear! :o Yeah, Tonto’s the asshole in the latter commercial, stuffing all of those pizza rolls into his pocket. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/39 "2018-01-25T21:28:36Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > 
 Which explains why he spent every evening at home reading the Bible after blowing the bad guys away with his rifle. :o I doubt that Mark complained about the lack of cable or a web connection. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/40 "2018-01-25T21:34:56Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Watch **this commercial** first: > > Now watch \*\*this one\*\*: > > Those thrilling days of yesteryear! :o It is the composer Rossini who should be annoyed. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429.md?page=3)