# Assholes in old TV westerns **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429 "2018-01-25T02:47:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/41 "2018-01-25T22:40:51Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A Mohawk? Dude, you have to take Dave Barry with a few thousand kilograms of salt. Jay Silverheels, the actor who played Tonto, was a Mohawk. Tonto most definitely was not. ETA: wait a sec. Where in the article does Dave Barry Tonto was a Mohawk? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/42 "2018-01-25T23:57:03Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Jay Silverheels, the actor who played Tonto, was a Mohawk. Tonto most definitely was not. > > ETA: wait a sec. Where in the article does Dave Barry Tonto was a Mohawk? Silverheels played a Seminole Indian named John Osceola in Key Largo. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/43 "2018-01-26T01:08:19Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > What about Ben? How many women did he put in the ground? 😛 Three that we know of, but those were just the ones that went to full term. ---
**Author:** ![BuckChongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@BuckChongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckChongo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/44 "2018-01-26T01:42:49Z")
Young Bruce Dern would show up in the old TV westerns from time to time and was often an ass hole. Young Dennis Hopper shows up too but he’s usually a spineless psychopath. The true silver bullet of truth is that the name Tonto was taken from the Tonto National Forest in Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/45 "2018-01-26T01:43:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Silverheels played a Seminole Indian named John Osceola in Key Largo. He also played an Aztec in _ **Captain from Castile** _ (1947), opposite Tyrone Power and Cesar Romero. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/46 "2018-01-26T01:56:33Z")
> [@BuckChongo](#): > > Young Bruce Dern would show up in the old TV westerns from time to time and was often an ass hole. Young Dennis Hopper shows up too but he’s usually a spineless psychopath. In John Wayne’s _ **The Cowboys** _, it was Dern who was a spineless psychopath. IIRC, Dern was also psychotic in the pilot _ **The Long Hunt of April Savage** _, created and written by Sam Rolfe (_ **Have Gun, Will Travel** _), produced by Gene Roddenberry, and starring Robert “Gary Seven” Lansing. Improvising, Dern picked up a chicken and stroked it as he carried it around with him. Using the chicken as a prop made him look completely deranged. ---
**Author:** ![Sveltington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@Sveltington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sveltington)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/47 "2018-01-26T02:02:46Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Adam Cartwright in ‘Bonanza’ was an asshole and smart-alec. Can’t we forgive him because he was hot? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/48 "2018-01-26T02:24:15Z")
> [@Sveltington](#): > > Can’t we forgive him because he was hot? 😃 Well, there is that slash fan fic. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/49 "2018-01-26T02:25:16Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Silverheels played a Seminole Indian named John Osceola in Key Largo. Dammit, I was going to post that. Thanks a lot, Kimo Sabe! ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/50 "2018-01-26T02:50:28Z")
> [@BuckChongo](#): > > Young Bruce Dern would show up in the old TV westerns from time to time and was often an ass hole. Young Dennis Hopper shows up too but he’s usually a spineless psychopath. The true silver bullet of truth is that the name Tonto was taken from the Tonto National Forest in Arizona. You’d be hard pressed to find a bigger asshole than Dern’s bad guy in The Cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/51 "2018-01-26T03:53:52Z")
The Mavericks - all of them - were assholes. They cheated and conned their way through every episode, they were cowards, and the only reason they werent in prison was because the local sherriffs cut a deal with them after they helped catch the worse assholes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/52 "2018-01-26T13:25:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The Mavericks - all of them - were assholes. They cheated and conned their way through every episode, they were cowards, and the only reason they werent in prison was because the local sherriffs cut a deal with them after they helped catch the worse assholes. They usually conned someone who had cheated or threatened them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/53 "2018-01-26T13:59:43Z")
I’ve been listening to bits of “Fort Laramie” episodes (OK, it’s classic radio, not TV), and I’m having trouble accepting Raymond Burr as a sympathetic type (he plays a U.S. cavalry captain, with snooty overtones). I keep getting a mental image of him riding a horse while wearing a custom tailored suit. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/54 "2018-01-26T14:16:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I keep getting a mental image of him riding a horse while wearing a custom tailored suit. A wheelchair saddle, being chased by Godzilla. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/55 "2018-01-26T14:26:11Z")
Those two guys who were trying to steal Deputy Droopy’s gold were kind of jerks. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/56 "2018-01-26T14:36:27Z")
Steve McQueen in [_Wanted: Dead or Alive_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051327/) is another one of those “He’s a jerk except when he isn’t.” types. He was a bounty hunter who did bounty hunter stuff.\* But he usually turned the reward money over to the bad guy’s victims or other needy folk. - That needs to be said in a Jules Winnfield kind of voice. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/57 "2018-01-26T14:45:08Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Steve McQueen in [_Wanted: Dead or Alive_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051327/) is another one of those “He’s a jerk except when he isn’t.” types. Josh Randall was a character in an episode of _Trackdown_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/58 "2018-01-26T15:16:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m having trouble accepting Raymond Burr as a sympathetic type (he plays a U.S. cavalry captain, with snooty overtones). Obviously a West Point graduate. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/59 "2018-01-26T16:07:54Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Tonto means “stupid one” in Spanish. Kemo sabe can be understood as a deformation of _quién sabe_ (who knows) or _el que más sabe_ (he who knows best). The two names could be coincidence, but if they’re not, they pack enough assholism to keep a proctologist busy for a year. I would interpret more as a corruption of “quien no sabe”, “He [who] doesn’t know”. Works well as a counterpart to Tonto. > [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > Through it all, he sticks up for the little guy, the innocent, while he smites the evildoer with terrible vengeance. (Oh he can go Sam Jackson on your ass! But he never wants to; he wants to live in peace and harmony in a fair and decent society.) He was like Josie Wales - he just wanted to be left alone. And, like Lone Watie said to Josie, “I’ve noticed when you get to disliking folks they aint around long neither.” > [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > On _The Rifleman_, Lucas McCain was not an asshole. He was a stone cold killer psycho quite often though. > > But then, North Fork always seemed to have a weekly order of assholes coming into town. Roughnecks who only came in to growl and leer and snarl for no reason. It was weird, they even had their own theme on the soundtrack. (Zoom in on scruffy louts) “BOM-BOM-BA-BOM-BOOOOOMMMM!!!” Not sure where I read it: Lucas McCain killed more men than cholera. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429/60 "2018-01-26T16:23:19Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > He was like Josie Wales - he just wanted to be left alone. And, like Lone Watie said to Josie, “I’ve noticed when you get to disliking folks they aint around long neither.” He also told Josie, “We are one of the civilized tribes. That means we are easy to sneak up on.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-in-old-tv-westerns/807429.md?page=4)