# Assholes with guns in my 'hood **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745 "2013-01-10T14:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/1 "2013-01-10T14:58:22Z")
So these two morons were spotted yesterday walking around our neighborhood with shouldered rifles. Turns out they were “exercising our 2nd Amendment rights”. Right. You felt you just had to make a statement about your fucking gun rights by strutting around a residential area near a school, causing somewhat panicked 911 calls and diverting police from needed work to sort out your assholish behavior. I grew up with guns, hunting and target shooting. Everybody I knew in Anchorage, Alaska had guns in their homes. They were a normal part of life there. But we had the sense not to parade around the fucking streets with our weapons. This was deliberately provocative, of course. These two tough guys decided they’d show the libtards that nobody was going to restrict _their_ by-God rights. Well, okay, no laws broken here and you made the news. You officially exist. But you might think about a couple of things. When you commit a provocative act, there may be consequences that go beyond your desire for publicity. This neighborhood has a lot of kids, and it so happens that when you were performing your little bit of theater of the absurd, that the buses were unloading their cargo. What if one of your fellow gun enthusiasts with a concealed carry permit had decided you were a danger to his kids and opened fire on you? What if you returned fire? What if those bullets missed their mark (a likely outcome) and continued on their inevitable paths? Your 2nd Amendment rights only extend to the point where they encroach on others’ rights to expect to live a peaceful, civilized life. This action was neither reasonable nor prudent. I hope both your fathers come for a visit and slap the ever-lovin’ shit out of you. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/2 "2013-01-10T15:02:33Z")
While I agree that they were being total dumbasses; No one is going to decide that they’re a danger and just open fire. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/3 "2013-01-10T15:09:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > While I agree that they were being total dumbasses; > > No one is going to decide that they’re a danger and just open fire. :rolleyes: I dunno, I imagine most concealed carriers are overly concerned with violence. So someone with terrible risk-assessment skill sees a guy with a rifle near some kids so soon after Sandy Hook. Not likely, but I wouldn’t think it would be worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/4 "2013-01-10T15:19:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I dunno, I imagine most concealed carriers are overly concerned with violence. So someone with terrible risk-assessment skill sees a guy with a rifle near some kids so soon after Sandy Hook. > > Not likely, but I wouldn’t think it would be worth the risk. Has that ever happened, even once, in the history of this country? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/5 "2013-01-10T15:20:51Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > So these two morons were spotted yesterday walking around our neighborhood with shouldered rifles. Do you mean a rifle in shoulder arms position, as though on parade? Or do you mean a rifle slung over the should by means of a strap? ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/6 "2013-01-10T15:22:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Has that ever happened, even once, in the history of this country? That definitely means it never would, right? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/7 "2013-01-10T15:29:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Has that ever happened, even once, in the history of this country? It’s only been a little while since Sandy Hook. And most gun owners aren’t stupid enough to walk around kids with rifles. So I doubt it. I seem to recall that 2% of civilian shootings (less than the police) hit innocent persons. So that’s something. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/8 "2013-01-10T15:34:16Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > That definitely means it never would, right? No – but it’s a data point as to likelihood. We have never been invaded by an extraterrestrial army seeking to conquer Earth and enslave our women, but I acknowledge that it’s possible it will occur some time in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/9 "2013-01-10T15:35:19Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s only been a little while since Sandy Hook. And most gun owners aren’t stupid enough to walk around kids with rifles. Sure – but it’s been a long time since Columbine. Presumably the same, or similar, dynamics are in play. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/10 "2013-01-10T15:37:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure – but it’s been a long time since Columbine. Presumably the same, or similar, dynamics are in play. I don’t think the point you think you just made is actually contained in that post. **Lobohan** : Sandy Hook is recent. So people might be on edge. **Bricker** : Oh, yeah, Columbine is old! Derp? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/11 "2013-01-10T15:42:38Z")
As a general rule, I favor the idea of people openly carrying weapons, because the rarity of seeing a citizen – as opposed to a police officer – carrying a firearm in public is what causes distress. In 2004, at a Fairfax, Virginia Starbucks, the results of this rarity were on display – and it showed even the police were unaware of the law. From the Washington Post’s [Metro section](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50416-2004Jul14.html) back then: > [@](#): > > On July 2, Fairfax County police received a 911 call from a Champps restaurant in Reston. Six men are seated at a table, the caller said. They’re all armed. > > Dispatchers quickly sent four officers to the scene. The officers were “extremely polite” and were hoping that some of the men were in law enforcement, said Sgt. Richard Perez, a spokesman for the police department. None was. > > The men told the officers “they were just exercising their rights as citizens of the commonwealth,” Perez said. > > Turns out, packing a pistol in public is perfectly legal in Virginia. And three times in the last month, including at Champps on Sunset Hills Road, residents have been spotted out and about in the county, with guns strapped to their hips, exercising that right. > > In the first episode, at a Starbucks, Fairfax police wrongly confiscated weapons from two college students and charged them with a misdemeanor. Police realized their mistake, returned the guns and tore up the charges the next day. Police commanders have since issued a reminder to officers that “open carry” is the law of the land in the Old Dominion. I find that absolutely extraordinary. It’s one thing for citizens to see people wearing weapons and become alarmed – the police can respond and advise the citizens that the conduct is legal. In the Starbucks case, the police officers themselves were so unused to seeing a civilian with a handgun that they tried to charge a crime, not realizing that the conduct was legal. Common exercise of the right to carry a firearm would dispel that ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/12 "2013-01-10T15:46:27Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t think the point you think you just made is actually contained in that post. > > **Lobohan** : Sandy Hook is recent. So people might be on edge. > **Bricker** : Oh, yeah, Columbine is old! > > Derp? I took your “Sandy Hook is recent” comment to mean: “Since Sandy Hook is recent, we can’t yet know how common it might be for a concealed-carry permit holder to become alarmed by seeing a open-carry weapon and begin firing.” What you seem to have actually meant to say is: “Since Sandy Hook is recent, nerves are a bit on edge right now.” And my response to that is: this is not the first incident that set nerves on edge, and no similar reaction has ever come from a concealed carry permit holder immediately after other such incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/13 "2013-01-10T15:52:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I took your “Sandy Hook is recent” comment to mean: “Since Sandy Hook is recent, we can’t yet know how common it might be for a concealed-carry permit holder to become alarmed by seeing a open-carry weapon and begin firing.” > > What you seem to have actually meant to say is: “Since Sandy Hook is recent, nerves are a bit on edge right now.” > > And my response to that is: this is not the first incident that set nerves on edge, and no similar reaction has ever come from a concealed carry permit holder immediately after other such incidents. Fair enough. I do think the idea that it would happen is very unlikely. It would be more likely if there was more open carry and concealed carry. If only because of more chances to roll the hard six. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/14 "2013-01-10T16:00:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Common exercise of the right to carry a firearm would dispel that ignorance. The idea of a society in which ordinary citizens walk around openly carrying firearms all the time is sickening. I’d rather people not get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/15 "2013-01-10T16:32:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As a general rule, I favor the idea of people openly carrying weapons, because the rarity of seeing a citizen – as opposed to a police officer – carrying a firearm in public is what causes distress. I feel the same way about my balls. If every other guy dangled their sack out of their unzipped fly, maybe people would stop screaming at me everywhere I go. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/16 "2013-01-10T16:33:52Z")
Do you remember that husband and wife team who insisted on carrying guns to their kids’ soccer games? and then the husband shot and killed the wife? That was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/17 "2013-01-10T16:36:28Z")
Yeah, and I remember the subsequent furious debate over whether or not it was ironic. Did we ever come to an agreement? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/18 "2013-01-10T16:39:37Z")
Remember that the husband then killed himself. So he shot an innocent person, and then shot a killer, so it’s a wash statistically. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/19 "2013-01-10T16:44:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > While I agree that they were being total dumbasses; > > No one is going to decide that they’re a danger and just open fire. :rolleyes: Sure. Let’s see now. A guy who has apparently no reason to walk around with a weapon does so and then shoots a bunch of people in a theater. Another guy apparently has no reason to be holding a gun walks into a school and shoots children. I look out the window and see my children getting off of a bus on a street where two guys are walking around with weapons for no apparent reason. Of course! they must be gun salesman? Exercising citizen rights? A hunting expedition? No way is the thought going to cross my mind that these two fucktards are auditioning for “America’s Next Craziest Monster” I’m not sure that I could sit on a jury and NOT excuse an armed parent for dropping these two shitheads on the pavement. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745/20 "2013-01-10T16:48:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As a general rule, I favor the idea of people openly carrying weapons, because the rarity of seeing a citizen – as opposed to a police officer – carrying a firearm in public is what causes distress. > > In 2004, at a Fairfax, Virginia Starbucks, the results of this rarity were on display – and it showed even the police were unaware of the law. From the Washington Post’s [Metro section](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50416-2004Jul14.html) back then: > … > Common exercise of the right to carry a firearm would dispel that ignorance. I posted a while back about a guy who was detained by a storeowner because he refused to show his receipt for a purchase he had just made - and then he was _arrested_ for refusing to show his driver’s license to the police officer who responded to the storeowner’s call (he was not in his car at the time; the charge was eventually dropped). People rolled their eyes at the idea of this guy exercising his legal rights “just because he could,” but your rights only exist insofar as people around you (including authority figures) are actually aware of that fact - and their awareness fades when people don’t regularly exercise those rights. Case in point, the officer was so used to people handing over their driver’s license that he actually believed he had the authority to arrest this guy for refusing to do so. So yes, exercise your rights once in a while. That includes refusing to show your receipt to a shopkeeper, making video recordings of police activities, refusing to show your license to a police officer (not applicable when you’re behind the wheel of a motor vehicle), refusing to answer police questions if you’re getting the least bit annoyed with their conduct, and refusing to consent to a search of your vehicle or home. And yes, now and then, carry a gun within the letter of the law. People around you will get used to it, and so will the cops. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assholes-with-guns-in-my-hood/646745.md?page=2)