# Assisting the police **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459 "2013-07-02T16:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/81 "2013-07-05T14:41:32Z")
> [@](#): > > After searching him for weapons, I dragged his ass to a cashier stand and stuffed him on the floor behind a register and had the manager sit on him until the fuzz showed up. > [@DCnDC](#): > > IANAL, but that sounds like a legit citizen’s arrest to me. Not to me. Speaking for Ohio, #1, a merchant/agent is NOT allowed to search a shoplifter, and “dragging” if we accept the term literally, is probably assault. Sitting on a peron is assault and an UNLawful “restraint of liberty”, as codified under ohio law. Also in Ohio citizens have NO power of arrest, except for felonies. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/82 "2013-07-05T15:01:23Z")
I’d put seventeen years of rugby to good use. ---
**Author:** ![Matt37](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4da419/32.png) [@Matt37](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matt37)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/83 "2013-07-05T15:06:58Z")
As a former LEO myself, I’d shove him and let his own momentum take him to the ground or into the wall or whatever. That’d give the pursuing officer a chance to catch up to him, and would prevent me from being engaged physically with him such that he might harm me if he was armed. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/84 "2013-07-05T15:07:26Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Not to me. Speaking for Ohio, #1, a merchant/agent is NOT allowed to search a shoplifter, and “dragging” if we accept the term literally, is probably assault. > > Sitting on a peron is assault and an UNLawful “restraint of liberty”, as codified under ohio law. > > Also in Ohio citizens have NO power of arrest, except for felonies. When you ask politely for the suspect to go back to the office to wait for the police and they then use force to attempt to leave, that is now robbery not shoplifting. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/85 "2013-07-05T15:16:41Z")
Nothing good can come of getting involved with the police. If I do nothing then the drama will pass by and I’ll have a fun story to tell. If I get involved there are a thousand scenarios where the police can decide I did something wrong. Maybe, just maybe, if the officer called to me to take action I might do something but it would be with a strong sense of dread that I was being set up. ---
**Author:** ![Matt37](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4da419/32.png) [@Matt37](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matt37)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/86 "2013-07-05T15:18:39Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > When you ask politely for the suspect to go back to the office to wait for the police and they then use force to attempt to leave, that is now robbery not shoplifting. That varies from state to state. It _might_ be the case if the law is worded that way, but what you’re stating here is not absolute in every state. In some places, the use of force to leave constitutes an additional crime of evasion or fleeing lawful custody (since store security in some places does have the right to detain a suspect until police arrive). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/87 "2013-07-05T15:29:02Z")
> [@Matt37](#): > > That varies from state to state. It _might_ be the case if the law is worded that way, but what you’re stating here is not absolute in every state. In some places, the use of force to leave constitutes an additional crime of evasion or fleeing lawful custody (since store security in some places does have the right to detain a suspect until police arrive). In New Jersey its simple: > [@](#): > > a. Robbery defined. A person is guilty of robbery if,\* in the course of committing a theft\*, he: > > (1) Inflicts bodily injury or\* uses force upon another\*; or > > (2) Threatens another with or purposely puts him in fear of immediate bodily injury; or > > (3) Commits or threatens immediately to commit any crime of the first or second degree. > > _An act shall be deemed to be included in the phrase “in the course of committing a theft” if it occurs in an attempt to commit theft or in immediate flight after the attempt or commission._ > > b. Grading. Robbery is a crime of the second degree, except that it is a crime of the first degree if in the course of committing the theft the actor attempts to kill anyone, or purposely inflicts or attempts to inflict serious bodily injury, or is armed with, or uses or threatens the immediate use of a deadly weapon. Leaving the store is still in the course of committing the theft. If force is used, its a robbery. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/88 "2013-07-05T15:40:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In New Jersey its simple: > Leaving the store is still in the course of committing the theft. If force is used, its a robbery. Ohio is similar; 2911.02 Robbery. (A) No person, in attempting or committing a theft offense or in fleeing immediately after the attempt or offense, shall do any of the following: (1) Have a deadly weapon on or about the offender’s person or under the offender’s control; (2) Inflict, attempt to inflict, or threaten to inflict physical harm on another; (3) Use or threaten the immediate use of force against another. (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of robbery. A violation of division (A)(1) or (2) of this section is a felony of the second degree. A violation of division (A)(3) of this section is a felony of the third degree. Still the force used on a detainee can only be necessary to repel his force, there reaches a point the shoplifter must be let go. Sitting on a person, absent mitigating factors, is UNreasonable force. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/89 "2013-07-05T18:56:31Z")
I stick out my foot and trip him. I know better, but I think I have a death wish. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/90 "2013-07-06T02:35:37Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Not to me. Speaking for Ohio, #1, a merchant/agent is NOT allowed to search a shoplifter, and “dragging” if we accept the term literally, is probably assault. > > Sitting on a peron is assault and an UNLawful “restraint of liberty”, as codified under ohio law. > > Also in Ohio citizens have NO power of arrest, except for felonies. > [@lawbuff](#): > > Still the force used on a detainee can only be necessary to repel his force, there reaches a point the shoplifter must be let go. > > Sitting on a person, absent mitigating factors, is UNreasonable force. I bet Mr. Meyers wishes he had escaped in Ohio instead, where they tickle you and blow bubbles at you until you give up and then charge anyone who sits on you until the cops show up. Oh, wait. [Boo-Yah!](http://www.policeone.com/corrections/articles/6308461-Video-Store-customer-tackles-escaped-Ohio-inmate/) ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/91 "2013-07-06T04:56:55Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I stick out my foot and trip him. I know better, but I think I have a death wish. Ya know, when my brother and I were growing up, we decided to try this as it was all the rage in Bugs Bunny cartoons. So my brother went running past me at full speed, I stuck my leg out, and we both ended up flat on the lawn, clutching our shins and crying. So much simpler when Bugs did it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/92 "2013-07-06T12:38:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > But more likely odds of being close enough and able to react quickly enough to actually do something are probably pretty slim. This is my reasoning. Even if I wanted to, I don’t react that quickly in any situation. If I had time to react, I’d probably run inside to avoid winding up a part of any of it. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/93 "2013-07-06T13:39:47Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > I bet Mr. Meyers wishes he had escaped in Ohio instead, where they tickle you and blow bubbles at you until you give up and then charge anyone who sits on you until the cops show up. > Oh, wait. [Boo-Yah!](http://www.policeone.com/corrections/articles/6308461-Video-Store-customer-tackles-escaped-Ohio-inmate/) I saw that on the news, # 1, he was an DANGEROUS escapee, not a suspect, and 2, it does not give anyone a right to “sit on” a person in this instance, there was no struggle. The video clearly shows he was football tackled without a chance to surrender. Even in the poster’s example, proper restaint is NOT to sit on a person. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/94 "2013-07-06T13:41:48Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Ya know, when my brother and I were growing up, we decided to try this as it was all the rage in Bugs Bunny cartoons. So my brother went running past me at full speed, I stuck my leg out, and we both ended up flat on the lawn, clutching our shins and crying. > > So much simpler when Bugs did it. ☹ Any martial arts student has stories about shin-to-shin blocking… there’s a scene in a Jackie Chan movie that will make you cringe while laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/95 "2013-07-06T14:56:47Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > I saw that on the news, # 1, he was an DANGEROUS escapee, not a suspect, and 2, it does not give anyone a right to “sit on” a person in this instance, there was no struggle. The video clearly shows he was football tackled without a chance to surrender. > > Even in the poster’s example, proper restaint is NOT to sit on a person. I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are legally justified to restrain someone, such as during a legal citizens arrest, sitting on someone is no more illegal than an arm bar or just keeping them in a room. If you are not justified in restraining someone you are no more guilty of criminal restraint because you are sitting on them. The key is if the force was justified, not what technique was used. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/96 "2013-07-06T15:04:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are legally justified to restrain someone, such as during a legal citizens arrest, sitting on someone is no more illegal than an arm bar or just keeping them in a room. If you are not justified in restraining someone you are no more guilty of criminal restraint because you are sitting on them. The key is if the force was justified, not what technique was used. Sititing on someone can and usually does restrict thier breathing. You do agree don’t you that there is a limit to that, of course a 400 pound man would be using excessive force sitting on a 100 pound woman shoplifter! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/97 "2013-07-06T15:27:13Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Sititing on someone can and usually does restrict thier breathing. You do agree don’t you that there is a limit to that, of course a 400 pound man would be using excessive force sitting on a 100 pound woman shoplifter! You are right I misspoke. Its not that black and white. The force has to be reasonable to the situation and the use of force justified. Just the act of sitting on someone isn’t in itself illegal. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/98 "2013-07-06T15:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=Loach;16446858.] Just the act of sitting on someone isn’t in itself illegal. [/QUOTE] Personally though, I would rather be sat upon, with limitations of course, then to be tasered. Even getting pepper sprayed would cause me to suffer greatly, maybe die, as I have breathing problems. If an officer told me to do “whatever” or be sprayed, I would do it, even if I knew 100% he was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/99 "2013-07-06T22:19:56Z")
I would probably stop him, but then again it would be easier for me as I would be having a [beer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipRcgJMHMzE&list=PL026ECBA01661D7CB), not a coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459/100 "2013-07-07T03:33:09Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Personally though, I would rather be sat upon, with limitations of course, then to be tasered. > > Even getting pepper sprayed would cause me to suffer greatly, maybe die, as I have breathing problems. > > If an officer told me to do “whatever” or be sprayed, I would do it, even if I knew 100% he was wrong. In general those with breathing problems have no problem with OC spray. However, those with breathing problems such as asthma will have more problems with positional asphyxia and OC can make that worse. So it’s not the spray itself. All police should be trained to get whoever has been sprayed and detained into an upright or seated position as soon as possible. Regardless, getting sprayed sucks and should be avoided. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assisting-the-police/662459.md?page=6)