# Assume Obama Becomes President: Racism In America Re-Defined? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2008, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974 "2008-01-02T08:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/21 "2008-01-04T14:31:35Z")
This may sound odd, but has Morgan Freeman pre-neutralised the issue? I mean, he’s an actor who’s been cast as President in a number of popular films. So the idea of a black POTUS is not unknown to the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/22 "2008-01-04T14:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] That’s a pretty big assumption. Got any actual, like, evidence to back it up? [/quote] You’re demanding a cite for a statement that begins “strangely, I believe …”? Don’t you think that implies an opinion? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/23 "2008-01-04T14:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] And he would probably end up blaming that on racism somehow, like the establishment won’t accept a black man because everybody in Washington is a bigot. [/QUOTE] It would be mighty ironic if the only reason you believe he would do this is because he’s black. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/24 "2008-01-04T14:47:03Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] This may sound odd, but has Morgan Freeman pre-neutralised the issue? I mean, he’s an actor who’s been cast as President in a number of popular films. So the idea of a black POTUS is not unknown to the electorate. [/QUOTE] This deserves a thread on its own – Do media portrayals of minority groups in positions of responsibility ameliorate bigoted attitudes in real life? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/25 "2008-01-04T14:50:08Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] **Zoe** , consider the same point for Hillary: I think a lot of male Americans want to vote for her to “prove” they aren’t sexist or chauvinist. If women would get their act together and not spend all day shopping and cooking, we’d all get along! Would you jump on that with the same vigor? Honestly, I think Obama would make a pretty lousy president. There’s always the pressure of not screwing up, which would ultimately make him completely ineffective. And he would probably end up blaming that on racism somehow, like the establishment won’t accept a black man because everybody in Washington is a bigot. I think Obama is all talk. I’d rather have a head honcho be able to get things done than just talk about it. [/QUOTE] Why would Obama be more subject to the pressure of not screwing up than any other president? Are you referring to the pressure of being the first (US) black president? Do you have a cite for the fact that Obama has a proclivity for blaming racism for issues? Who’s your idea of a ‘head honcho’? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/26 "2008-01-04T14:50:37Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] It would mighty ironic if the only reason you believe he would do this is because he’s black. [/QUOTE] **you with the reading my mind**! ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/27 "2008-01-04T15:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] \ Honestly, I think Obama would make a pretty lousy president. There’s always the pressure of not screwing up, which would ultimately make him completely ineffective. And he would probably end up blaming that on racism somehow, like the establishment won’t accept a black man because everybody in Washington is a bigot. I think Obama is all talk. I’d rather have a head honcho be able to get things done than just talk about it. [/QUOTE] You are kidding right? I mean Bush was elected and got a lot of things done whilst at the same time screwing up royally just about everything he did. At least with Barack we won’t just have a talking head we’ll have someone who can form a real sentence with nouns and verbs and adjectives. He’ll end up blaming it on racism because everyone in Washington is a Bigot? So are you in the camp that he is secretly an Al Quaida Operative as well? Just wondering where you are getting all this from? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/28 "2008-01-04T16:37:41Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] At least with Barack we won’t just have a talking head we’ll have someone who can form a real sentence with nouns and verbs and adjectives. He’ll end up blaming it on racism because everyone in Washington is a Bigot? So are you in the camp that he is secretly an Al Quaida Operative as well? Just wondering where you are getting all this from? [/QUOTE] I’ve never claimed Obama is in Al Qaeda, perhaps you’re thinking of O\*\*_s_\*\*ama? I’m not disputing that Obama can speak well. It is my opinion that’s all he can do. As for where I’m getting this, the same place other people who are rabid anti-Hillary get the “she’s too robotic therefore I won’t vote for her” opinion. Both are valid opinions. I happen to prefer someone who has gotten more done than someone who only speaks convincingly in front of voters and I’m not afraid to say so. As far as redefining racism in America, if Obama does win, one positive is that he follows Bush and therefore couldn’t possibly be as terrible as the current administration. Therefore, it’s less likely we’d see a row over how awful the first black president was. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/29 "2008-01-04T16:42:24Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] I’ve never claimed Obama is in Al Qaeda, perhaps you’re thinking of O\*\*_s_\*\*ama? I’m not disputing that Obama can speak well. It is my opinion that’s all he can do. As for where I’m getting this, the same place other people who are rabid anti-Hillary get the “she’s too robotic therefore I won’t vote for her” opinion. Both are valid opinions. I happen to prefer someone who has gotten more done than someone who only speaks convincingly in front of voters and I’m not afraid to say so. As far as redefining racism in America, if Obama does win, one positive is that he follows Bush and therefore couldn’t possibly be as terrible as the current administration. Therefore, it’s less likely we’d see a row over how awful the first black president was. [/QUOTE] Good point, I’m sorry for coming off initially snarky. I had a late night last night and as you can see I’m for the man to be in office. I think he’s young, has lofty visions but I think he’s smart, and he’s not afraid to work in a bipartisan fashion to ge things done. I’d love to see him prove a good track record in the white house, I’d love to see him pull 8 years as president and really get us back on track. In a nutshell, I think he’d be able to clean up Bushes shit. ---
**Author:** ![cinehead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@cinehead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cinehead)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/30 "2008-01-04T16:57:34Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] I happen to prefer someone who has gotten more done than someone who only speaks convincingly in front of voters and I’m not afraid to say so. [/QUOTE] What have any of they other candidates done that Obama hasn’t? I think that it’s pretty easy to cite the accomplishments of Guliani and McCain, given their age and the amount of time they’re spent in public life. But, tell me what Hilary, Huckabee or Thompson have done? In fact, tell me what Bush or Bill Clinton accomplished before they became President. Why are you singling out Obama for this criticism? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/31 "2008-01-04T17:13:13Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] This deserves a thread on its own – Do media portrayals of minority groups in positions of responsibility ameliorate bigoted attitudes in real life? [/QUOTE] In this particular case, the tantalizing not-instantly-dismissible notion of President Colin Powell probably helped a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/32 "2008-01-04T17:14:18Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] **Zoe** , consider the same point for Hillary: I think a lot of male Americans want to vote for her to “prove” they aren’t sexist or chauvinist. If women would get their act together and not spend all day shopping and cooking, we’d all get along! Would you jump on that with the same vigor? [/QUOTE] Really? I haven’t noticed this. I’m also not sure people use voting as a way to prove how non-sexist or -racist they are. After all, couldn’t they just lie afterwards? Also, I do think her being president would, to some people, mean women could ‘stop complaining’ already (hell, people say this even as people ask if America is ‘ready for a “woman” president.’ People have probably said this since women got the vote and since slaves were freed). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/33 "2008-01-04T17:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=cinehead] Why are you singling out Obama for this criticism? [/QUOTE] You know how some people are in the “anyone but Hillary” camp? I’m in the “anyone but Obama” camp. I have a feeling if he is elected, he will be the worst person for the job out of all the other candidates who are running. The only worse possible outcome for 2008 in my opinion is if Dubya rips up the constitution and somehow gets himself re-elected (and everybody complained but nobody actually stopped him just like everything else he gets away with). It’s the same feeling I got when Bush was running for President. Something is off, yet everyone is following him like sheep. I have a feeling Obama generates a sort of blind idealism like Bush followers. If he does win it and screw up, it will take a long time for anyone to admit it. But remember you heard it here first! ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/34 "2008-01-04T17:35:57Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] You know how some people are in the “anyone but Hillary” camp? I’m in the “anyone but Obama” camp. I have a feeling if he is elected, he will be the worst person for the job out of all the other candidates who are running. The only worse possible outcome for 2008 in my opinion is if Dubya rips up the constitution and somehow gets himself re-elected (and everybody complained but nobody actually stopped him just like everything else he gets away with). It’s the same feeling I got when Bush was running for President. Something is off, yet everyone is following him like sheep. I have a feeling Obama generates a sort of blind idealism like Bush followers. If he does win it and screw up, it will take a long time for anyone to admit it. But remember you heard it here first! [/QUOTE] If he wins it and cleans up the wreakage of bushes past he could come out as a celebrated leader too. To every ying there is a yang. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/35 "2008-01-04T17:44:16Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] I was old enough in 1960 (and lived in a Bible Belt area) to remember the vitriol directed against the Roman Catholic John F. Kennedy. After Kennedy was elected and showed he was not taking secret orders from the Vatican, that completely ended the discussion of religion and political office. Certainly when Joe Lieberman was running – 44 years later – no one suggested his being Jewish [would be seen as any kind of problem.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=150894&highlight=Lieberman). And the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon doesn’t even merit mentioning, especially since his father ran for President in 1968. Clearly, we’ve moved past religious bigotry in the U.S. So Obama’s election would bring down the last vestiges of racial prejudice. Right? [/QUOTE] Are you joking about Romney? The Times today said that an awful lot of Huck voters did it because they wanted someone who shared their faith. When George Romney ran (and I’m old enough to remember that) his religion wasn’t an issue, but we’ve gotten a lot crazier about religion since then. I think JFK winning did reduce anti-Catholic prejudice, but remember he wasn’t nearly as Catholic as Romney is Mormon. Maybe that made people less nervous. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/36 "2008-01-04T18:07:36Z")
[QUOTE=The Controvert] It’s the same feeling I got when Bush was running for President. [/quote] I don’t know. Not seeing any similarities between Bush supporters and Obama’s. People aren’t behind Obama because “he looks like a guy you could have beer with”. I think they support him because he exudes traits associated with good leadership. He presents ideas well, doesn’t seem to go out of his way to ingratiate himself with any particular political base so he has yet to really alienate anyone, seems genunine and natural when he talks to people, and perhaps most important, seems intelligent. “Presidential”, in other words. Bush never has looked presidential. And sadly enough, that was why he voted by a significant fraction of the electorate. I like Obama and am relieved that he did well in Iowa. While I don’t hate Clinton rabidly (I even defended her in a thread a long time ago), I don’t like her style and think she has no chance in hell of getting elected in the general. She has a “I’ll say whatever it takes to get elected” swarminess to her. I always get the impression that she is always trying to appear a certain way, instead of just being herself. Like McCain, she panders. I believe they own the same playbook. I do like that she came out with a healthcare plan, but it smacks too much of calculated strategy to really impress me. As others have mentioned, she is overplaying the experience card. If she keeps doing it during the debates, Obama is going to end up firing back with something that makes her look foolish. “Since when is being First Lady a credential?” ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/37 "2008-01-04T18:26:34Z")
Jesus H Christ! Beyond the fact that I agree with the merely political points of **John’s** post – with a dose of pragmatism thrown in for the candidate closest to my European-defined Social Democratic leanings was Kucinich – why is the following quote so freaking hard for most Americans to grasp? > [@John Mace](#): > > **…Especially since he’s really a perfect bi-racial guy. In this country he’s seen as Black, but the fact is his mother is White and he grew up in a mostly White environment. To him, race is secondary, and I think he helps other people see things that way as well.** For there, in a nutshell, is not just the answer to the OP but also the response to most of the race issues that continue to plague your nation. In the meantime, well done Iowa, my hearty congrats for leading the wave for change and freakin’ GO OBAMA! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/38 "2008-01-04T19:07:35Z")
Hating Blacks and Jews is so twentieth century. The fashionable bigot hates Gays, Mexicans and Muslims now. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/39 "2008-01-04T19:07:55Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think for most Americans it would be. Especially since he’s really a perfect bi-racial guy. In this country he’s seen as Black, but the fact is his mother is White and he grew up in a mostly White environment. [/QUOTE] Well, **Redfury** went and highlighted this quote, so now I just _have_ to ask **John** to elaborate here, right? If Obama didn’t have a white mama but still had the same race-lite platform and presentation, do you think Americans would be consider his race a non-issue? How much can we can _really_ say his race is a non-issue, if this meaningless little factoid acts as a credential for him, for all intents and purposes. One of the important thing that makes Obama different than the other candidates is that his pedigree has become relevant in a way that it hasn’t for anyone else in this race. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974/40 "2008-01-04T19:20:54Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] One of the important thing that makes Obama different than the other candidates is that his pedigree has become relevant in a way that it hasn’t for anyone else in this race. [/QUOTE] Only for a few vocal idiots, I think. (Mostly TV talking heads who need something to talk about.) I don’t think most voters particularly _care_ about his race. I never hear anyone mention it in casual conversation (Democrat or Republican), and my friends and aquaintances span a pretty wide range of political affiliations. Maybe they’re just keeping their thoughts to themselves, but I really just think it’s a non-issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assume-obama-becomes-president-racism-in-america-re-defined/431974.md?page=3)