# Assuming America survives this: Name permanent changes to American life **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 4, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112 "2020-05-04T07:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/101 "2020-05-07T18:32:24Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Nope, my job shipped my office cases of hand sanitizer last month. It very clearly said “alcohol free” ( which no one noticed until I was opening boxes) - had Benzalkonium chloride instead. Probably works for 99.9% of bacteria- but not viruses. > And reputable brands [make non-alcohol](https://www.usamedicalsurgical.com/purell-sf607-non-alcohol-hand-sanitizer-foam-bottle/) sanitizer Likely because they cant get the alcohol based stuff. [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/hand-hygiene.html?CDC\_AA\_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fhcp%2Fhand-hygiene-faq.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/hand-hygiene.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fhcp%2Fhand-hygiene-faq.html) \*CDC does not have a recommended alternative to hand rub products with greater than 60% ethanol or 70% isopropanol as active ingredients. Benzalkonium chloride, along with both ethanol and isopropanol, is deemed eligible by FDA for use in the formulation of healthcare personnel hand rubs.[2] However, available evidence indicates benzalkonium chloride has less reliable activity against certain bacteria and viruses than either of the alcohols. \* [https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Antiseptic\_efficacy\_of\_benzalkonium\_chloride](https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Antiseptic_efficacy_of_benzalkonium_chloride) So, not as good, but not useless. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/102 "2020-05-11T00:19:55Z")
There should be free healthcare for all Americans after this. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/103 "2020-05-11T00:58:59Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > There should be free healthcare for all Americans after this. You assume enough of US leadership wants a healthier, stronger, richer nation and citizenry, and will work for this goal. This apparently is not the case. A basic health safety net - what a concept! What I’d like to see: social democracy. What I expect: endless blockage. That part of American life will only change with continuing demographic shifts. Any further discussion is necessarily political so I’ll skip it here. I do expect changing behaviors driven by technology. Incautious fucktards won’t change much. The rest will wear monitors displaying body temperature to show they aren’t feverish and possibly contagious, and they’ill embrace fashion masking. Laws on masking and tracking will evolve. Will tracking-chip implants be voluntary or mandatory? Masking will show social status. Barefaced incautious fucktards will justifiably be targets of violence - “Stay back six feet or I’ll shoot!” - it’s self-defence. Expect self-segregation. The nation still won’t be ready for upcoming pandemics. Watch millions die. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/104 "2020-05-11T01:02:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Likely because they cant get the alcohol based stuff. Actually, it must have been somebody being stupid - because 1) the governor had just been all over TV talking about how _my agency_ had started making alcohol-based sanitizer and 2) we had gotten a shipment of the alcohol-based sanitizer made by my agency the week before. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/105 "2020-05-11T16:49:08Z")
Have you people _been_ to America? Nothing will change in the long term unless COVID-19 stays deadly and untreatable. The only changes we will see will be from the recession rather than the underlying pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/106 "2020-05-11T16:51:54Z")
I’m not even convinced much will change if it remains untreatable. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/107 "2020-05-11T19:18:24Z")
America doesn’t have the resiliency to change to meet problems, but we do have the capacity to collapse because we keep ignoring problems which is what we’re doing and what we’ll continue to do. If you can take a step back, it’s kind of funny that we’ll have to pay the piper for ignoring climate change, our health care system, economic inequality, unresolved systemic racism, the national debt and the state of our education system all at once. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/108 "2020-05-11T20:43:58Z")
Call me coldhearted but I see nothing wrong with 50% of all U.S. restaurants going out of business, as a source somewhere estimated. We had a huge oversupply glut of restaurants to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/109 "2020-05-11T20:56:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Call me coldhearted but I see nothing wrong with 50% of all U.S. restaurants going out of business, as a source somewhere estimated. We had a huge oversupply glut of restaurants to begin with. Restaurants are one of the largest industries in the United States, employing nearly 16 million people, many of them lacking in post-secondary education necessary to even be considered for many corporate or government jobs. By “50% of all U.S. restaurants going out of business” you are condemning millions of people to permanent unemployment. And although the restaurant business only produces about US$900B in revenues (about 4% of GDP) it has outsized support for agriculture and particularly traditional (e.g. non-corporate) farming of fruits and vegetables as well as non-factory farming. Losing 50% of all restaurants would be a devastating blow to the US economy in a multitude of ways notwithstanding that they are one of the few remaining venues of public life in the US. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/110 "2020-05-11T23:17:30Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Restaurants are one of the largest industries in the United States, employing nearly 16 million people, many of them lacking in post-secondary education necessary to even be considered for many corporate or government jobs. By “50% of all U.S. restaurants going out of business” you are condemning millions of people to permanent unemployment. And although the restaurant business only produces about US$900B in revenues (about 4% of GDP) it has outsized support for agriculture and particularly traditional (e.g. non-corporate) farming of fruits and vegetables as well as non-factory farming. Losing 50% of all restaurants would be a devastating blow to the US economy in a multitude of ways notwithstanding that they are one of the few remaining venues of public life in the US. > > Stranger True - and thanks for the info. I suppose I was speaking only from a customer standpoint - there is no need for 8,000 restaurants in Chicago when 4,000 would suffice, unless one absolutely \*\*\*had \*\*\*to eat truffle-infused cuttlefish ravioli or some similarly eclectic dish that couldn’t be had anywhere else except that one specific restaurant that was closed by Covid. I wouldn’t want the economy damaged, but did seem overdue for pruning of some surplus/excess businesses. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/111 "2020-05-11T23:38:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > True - and thanks for the info. I suppose I was speaking only from a customer standpoint - **there is no need for 8,000 restaurants in Chicago when 4,000 would suffice** , unless one absolutely \*\*\*had \*\*\*to eat truffle-infused cuttlefish ravioli or some similarly eclectic dish that couldn’t be had anywhere else except that one specific restaurant that was closed by Covid. > > I wouldn’t want the economy damaged, but did seem overdue for pruning of some surplus/excess businesses. If they were staying business, they aren’t surplus. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/112 "2020-05-11T23:43:38Z")
IMHO _some_ fraction of the sit-down eatery industry will bounce back. Drive-throughs will remain busy. Some closed sit-downs will be bought by the usual gamblers - don’t 50% of a statups close within a year? - but we’ll likely see the cautious and incautious segregated. Fools will crowd small greasy-spoons and survivors will safely distance in sparse spaces. Will sitdowns install privacy booths? Automats may return, with dispensed foods bathed in IR for sterilization. Expect a boom in food wagons amid scattered picnic tables - my small rural county already hosts several such. Expect huge demand for plastic-wrapped produce - which, because farmworker shortage, will be quite costly. Only the rich, or home gardeners, will afford a vegan lifestyle. Thus expect more window gardens in apartment blocks. If meat supply chains remain weak because [del]slave[/del] processor shortage, pets and pests may disappear from poor neighborhoods. Thus expect window rabbit-hutches. Social change is trickier. Post-WWI and “Spanish” flu came the Wild Decade of jazz and short skirts; illicit boozing and the US mafiya’s rise with unsurprisingly rampant official corruption; inexorable technologies, etc. Were these foreseen in 1918? I predict more public nudity (masked); kits for DIY body-modding and cosmetic surgery; popular 3D-printed sex toys; pervasive online religions to avoid contagious contact; flash riots. Total isolation may be the new bohemianism. Hermit hipsters will dominate podcasts. American has always relentlessly operated at the edge of failure, sliding down the razor blade of life. Enjoy the ride. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/113 "2020-05-11T23:45:09Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > sliding down the razor blade of life. Tom Lehrer? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/114 "2020-05-12T01:53:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If they were staying business, they aren’t surplus. If they were in serious trouble, bleeding red month after month, maybe they really were. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/115 "2020-05-12T02:49:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Call me coldhearted but I see nothing wrong with 50% of all U.S. restaurants going out of business, as a source somewhere estimated. We had a huge oversupply glut of restaurants to begin with. If there had been a glut of them, then they would have gone out of business without a pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/116 "2020-05-12T03:37:49Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Tom Lehrer? Ah yes, Bright College Days! I was hooked early, about age 12, when a degenerate pal gave me the 45 RPM single of Masochism Tango B/W Poisoning Pigeons In The Park. Then I found the 33 RPM album An Evening Wasted at a church thrift shop and that was that. Yes, we will all go together when we go. Back to changes. Mainstream social media will censor what AIs identify as disinfo, driving the sub-literate to the Dark Web’s toxic propaganda and CTs - the defiant will be seen as dupes. Concealed-carry firearms rates will spike. “They stepped too close” will justify violent self-defense. Many will carry canes or batons, often electrified. Sales (and 3D-printer models) of pocket tasers will boom. A dress code will evolve - if we visibly display (A) then folks can approach; if (X) shows then stand back or suffer. Autonomous vehicles aka robocars will proliferate for personal travel and commercial sex work. Onboard sensors will monitor vital signs of potential riders and reject the feverish. Fleets of illicit taxis with blocked fever sensors will transport the infected. A social class structure will evolve - is you hot or is you not? Ice-cube hats will be popular. ---
**Author:** ![steepone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@steepone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steepone)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/117 "2020-05-12T05:45:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > A ton of people will wear masks in public even if there’s no known current outbreak of contagious disease. Even after a Corona virus vaccine is developed for a year or two we might see 50% or more of people wearing masks on the streets and in public transportation, planes, elevators, etc… I’d add sports and movies too but not sure if those will survive. Even after that I wouldn’t be surprised to see 10% or more of the population continue to wear masks, largely people at risk but also the cautious. Look at a playground and you’ll likely see kids wearing masks while their helicopter mask wearing parents and nannies have them on as well. This, I think states that have anti mask laws will have to repeal them ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/118 "2020-05-12T11:45:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > True - and thanks for the info. I suppose I was speaking only from a customer standpoint - there is no need for 8,000 restaurants in Chicago when 4,000 would suffice, unless one absolutely \*\*\*had \*\*\*to eat truffle-infused cuttlefish ravioli or some similarly eclectic dish that couldn’t be had anywhere else except that one specific restaurant that was closed by Covid. See, I seek out the eclectic menu. Let Covid take Denny’s and see how _you_ like it. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/119 "2020-05-12T16:27:26Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > IMHO _some_ fraction of the sit-down eatery industry will bounce back. Drive-throughs will remain busy. Some closed sit-downs will be bought by the usual gamblers - don’t 50% of a statups close within a year? People have been predicting the rise of delivery-only restaurants for a while, and I can see that actually happening now a lot more. Existing restaurants that survive probably will mostly keep their existing locations. But someone starting a new restaurant 6 months from now is going to think really hard about setting up a kitchen in cheap out-of-the way real estate with no on-site dining and being delivery/pickup only. If you’re not fine dining, renting a bunch of seating space that will be sparsely filled for a while and risks being shut down (or just abandoned by customers) whenever there’s a flareup is _really_ risky. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/120 "2020-05-12T17:33:07Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Agreed. I think people are way, way overestimating the effect this will have on society in general. (For comparison purposes, we’ve heard a lot about the Spanish flu of late, but there are two pandemics _within living memory_ that killed 1,000,000+ people worldwide, in [1957-58](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957%E2%80%9358_influenza_pandemic) and [1968-69](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu). And … nobody remembers them. I asked my parents, who are old enough to remember, and they had no idea these events even occurred. There was, I have heard, a rather well-attended music festival in 1969, a matter of months after 100,000 people in the US died of flu.) What about the epidemic that started around 1981 and is still going on? Loads more than a million deaths due to that (HIV). The difference there being that it moves slowly, is not as transmissible as the flu, and at least initially largely affected “those people” (i.e. you could be dismissive because it was mostly gays and IV drug users). I’m pretty sure most people remember this one. And I think there have been lasting lifestyle changes due to it. I had not realized how many people died of the Hong Kong flu (1968-69). I remember it - but then I’m 60. I actually had it - and our school actually closed for a few days due to the high number of cases. I think COVID’s changes on society will be far-reaching in a number of ways. - More willingness to allow telework for some workers since they’ve proven to be productive - LESS willingness to allow it in some cases, since the workers are NOT productive - People are used to going out, shopping, travelling etc. without the need for much thought; casual outings are going to be a LOT rarer for a while. - People are realizing they don’t NEED to go to crowded events (concerts, sporting events) - Shopping malls are already trending away from the huge enclosed malls; there are several major outlet malls within an hour’s drive of here, which do not have an indoor component at all (aside from the stores themselves). Do I think those changes will be super-long-lasting? I doubt it. I honestly think a year from now, either there’ll be a vaccine, there’ll be enough people with immunity that the disease is more a background thing, or people will simply say “fuckit” and go on with their lives. We’ve been inundated with ALL COVID ALL THE TIME news for 3 months now, and “news fatigue” is a very real thing. There will be fewer restaurants. Delivery food is usually not as good as in-restaurant food; it’s gotten cold, there are texture changes etc. Mask-wearing will never become “the norm” - hell, even right now people are freaking out about being required to wear a mask just to go shopping. Pity - as at least during a crisis, I see a lot of benefit in the social-shaming aspect “what do you mean, you aren’t wearing a mask??? Are you a MONSTER???” - peer pressure could go a long way in increasing mask usage / reducing transmission. In a future outbreak (of covid or flu or whatever), it would have to be a crisis situation for masks to become commonplace even in the short term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112.md?page=7)