# Assuming America survives this: Name permanent changes to American life **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 4, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112 "2020-05-04T07:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/141 "2020-05-13T12:22:55Z")
Friends of mine opened a brewery two years ago. The first six months they concentrated on brewing, and customers were free to bring their own food, or have pizza delivered from nearby places. Then they decided to invest in a kitchen and sell their own pizza, wings, sandwiches, etc. Looks like that decision will end up saving their business. Once the state shutdown bars, they ramped up their kitchen. Now they are selling curbside food and six packs on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. They are so busy, you have to place your order 24 hours ahead of time. Last Saturday we got a lasagna dinner for four, salads, garlic bread for $48 and a six pack of beer for $18. ETA: for the two of us, the dinner for four fed us two dinners and three lunches. The six pack lasted me four days, thanks to me drinking vodka chasers. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/142 "2020-05-13T14:16:05Z")
My wife and I were discussing this subject this morning, and came up with another possibility. We were wondering if the increase in working from home might be interpreted (companies) as evidence they really don’t need all that middle management? I’ve long contended we have far more management than needed in many fields, and it seems this might act as a real time demonstration of that. Just spitballing though. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/143 "2020-05-13T17:52:47Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Is anyone suggesting that we wear masks after the pandemic has passed? I don’t imagine there is any need to wear masks in normal times. It would be a tremendous boon to public health if we’d all wear masks when we had any symptoms of a possible illness. This is the norm in some countries (Japan, Korea, China), and we’d all get sick a lot less if everyone would do it. I find it unlikely that that will happen. Hell, it’s hard to get people to wear face masks _during this pandemic_ because it’s become the newest front in the culture war. ---
**Author:** ![littleFootDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9a28c/32.png) [@littleFootDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/littleFootDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/144 "2020-05-13T18:09:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Friends of mine opened a brewery two years ago. The first six months they concentrated on brewing, and customers were free to bring their own food, or have pizza delivered from nearby places. > > Then they decided to invest in a kitchen and sell their own pizza, wings, sandwiches, etc. Looks like that decision will end up saving their business. Once the state shutdown bars, they ramped up their kitchen. Now they are selling curbside food and six packs on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. They are so busy, you have to place your order 24 hours ahead of time. Last Saturday we got a lasagna dinner for four, salads, garlic bread for $48 and a six pack of beer for $18. > > ETA: for the two of us, the dinner for four fed us two dinners and three lunches. The six pack lasted me four days, thanks to me drinking vodka chasers. I’m glad to hear they are doing well, the brewing industry became over-saturated in my part of the world and a lot of them are struggling from too much supply. The change to restaurants has been interesting, I keep hearing about 5 star restaurants selling takeout, something that would have been unheard of a few years ago. I wonder how many of these changes will become permanent? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/145 "2020-05-13T18:15:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This pandemic will hopefully sound the death knell for the anti-vaxxer movement. It is to laugh. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/146 "2020-05-13T18:25:34Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > This is true; I’ve watched dozens of episodes of Hell’s Kitchen and Restaurant Impossible, in which a restaurant professional tries to save a failing restaurant. At the beginning, the host asks the hapless owner what their background is and why they opened a restaurant, and fairly often, they have no professional training and just opened the restaurant because it seemed a good idea. And the impression I get is that owning and running a restaurant is an unbelievable amount of work. Several years ago, a new restaurant opened near me. A small place, with maybe 8 tables - although based on the menu and location it would probably get a lot of takeout business. The menu was mostly sandwiches and other light fare. I took one look at the menu and thought “Too bad, they’ll be out of business in 6 months. To be clear, most everything on the menu sounded delicious and well-thought out from the perspective of “How will this taste?”. But almost every sandwich featured a different type of cheese - cheddar, Swiss, American, provolone, Gouda, Muenster and pepper jack were all included. They offered pulled beef AND pulled pork AND pulled chicken sandwiches on the everyday menu. They had beef burgers and turkey burgers and bison burgers and veggie burgers. There were dozens of menu offerings that had one or more unique ingredients. The menu was designed with no thought at all to the economics of stocking the kitchen. They didn’t last long. In contrast, someone in the same neighborhood opened a small Japanese takeout place. She started very simply with things that could be made with a limited amount of ingredients, mostly variations on California roll and tuna /eel based sushi, and she expanded the menu every few weeks as the business grew. Truth is, she didn’t last that line either, but she lasted longer than the guy with the sandwich shop. Having done a few online meetings, I can think of a lot of situations where they would work way better than a physical meeting. We used to have these really large coordination meetings on some of the construction projects I worked on. There were usually over 20 - 25 participants and everyone had to come at sit through the whole thing. It was always surprising how much coordination was needed between far flung trades and it was important not to leave any questions hanging. They were a pain in the ass logistically though. It was difficult to schedule all the parties. Every time the speaker or subject changed, the whole room had to play musical chairs. It was difficult for everyone to view a drawing or blueprint at the same time. A lot of participants were inactive for large portions of the meetings, I would do other work during large sections of the meeting, then someone would ask -“Hey, Ann - what’s the dimension on the back box for xx device” and I’d answer then they’d proceed to resolve the other issues dependent on the size of that device, which were usually of no concern to me. Zoom and the other apps I’ve been using would be perfect for this type of meeting. No one would have to travel and everyone could be on time. Everyone could see and hear each other equally. Everyone could see the materials being presented. People could sort of background the portions of the meetings that were irrelevant to them and do other things until they were needed or or until someone had a question for them. Although I’m no longer working, I fully expect that after doing these meetings remotely a few times, no one would ever do them in person again. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/147 "2020-05-13T18:30:32Z")
[QUOTE=pullin;22300211 the increase in working from home might be interpreted (companies) as evidence they really don’t need all that middle management? [/QUOTE] Working from home is going fine right now for a lot of people.But the emphasis is on “right now”. I wonder how long they can keep it going. Many people who previously went to the office every day, but are now working at home for the first time, are doing pretty well…for now. But most of them are just taking home their regular routine work. They are not doing the more complex things…like starting new projects, finding new clients, hiring new staff who need training. I suspect that if these same people stay away from their office for,say, 6 months straight , their company will have very very serious problems. When changes happen and the old routine has to be changed, people need to meet with their co-workers and their boss. And that usually works best when they all know each other, after years of daily contact. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/148 "2020-05-13T20:34:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Even the NFL pulls in a hell of a lot of money from ticket sales - about $1 billion a year for the NFL - but even that number understates the case. There’s more benefit to the spectator than just what they paid for tickets. Presence at a game tends to make a fan even more loyal. They buy more merchandise, and sports team merchandise is literally your customers paying you to advertise for you. Crowds also make the TV experience far more enjoyable. > > Furthermore, sports stadiums are enormous investments, costing truly insane amounts of money. The idea that the team and the government owners of the stadium want it empty, is madness. They want that place filled to the brim, and they will sell the tickets as soon as the balance between public health and quarantine fatique allow it. AIUI NFL owners vote each year whether or not to use the blackout rules that year. I had to look this up, but how it’s worked since the 1970s is that there can’t be TV coverage of a game within a certain radius of the arena if fewer than 85% of tickets for that game have been sold. I remember times when a local business or two stepped up and bought blocks of tickets so that the Bears could be televised locally. At any rate, if team owners really want their arenas filled and people are concerned about virus transmission at games, the owners might try instigating blackouts again. Personally, I think it would be as effective (and more public relations savvy) to discontinue the blackout rues and lower the ticket price substantially to encourage people to attend games, but I suspect NFL owners wouldn’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/149 "2020-05-13T21:48:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This pandemic will hopefully sound the death knell for the anti-vaxxer movement. Riiight. Google “Plandemic.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/150 "2020-05-14T00:09:46Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Back to changes. Mainstream social media will censor what AIs identify as disinfo, driving the sub-literate to the Dark Web’s toxic propaganda and CTs - the defiant will be seen as dupes. Concealed-carry firearms rates will spike. “They stepped too close” will justify violent self-defense. Many will carry canes or batons, often electrified. Sales (and 3D-printer models) of pocket tasers will boom. A dress code will evolve - if we visibly display (A) then folks can approach; if (X) shows then stand back or suffer. > > Autonomous vehicles aka robocars will proliferate for personal travel and commercial sex work. Onboard sensors will monitor vital signs of potential riders and reject the feverish. Fleets of illicit taxis with blocked fever sensors will transport the infected. A social class structure will evolve - is you hot or is you not? Ice-cube hats will be popular. Goddamnit, dude, I want to read your cyberpunk novel! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/151 "2020-05-14T17:06:58Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > And … nobody remembers them. I asked my parents, who are old enough to remember, and they had no idea these events even occurred. There was, I have heard, a rather well-attended music festival in 1969, a matter of months after 100,000 people in the US died of flu.) I had a Facebook friend post the same Hong Kong Flu/ Woodstock thing and I felt compelled to do the math for her, which I’ll repeat here: the Hong Kong flu killed 185 people a day between 1968 and 1970. We’re losing 2000/day now. I also agree with those who expect slight acceleration of trends already in place. We’ll find that it’s a lot easier to work from home than we thought, and we’ll see more of it. Less business travel, more teleconferences. Public transit will undergo routine disinfection. More movies may go direct to streaming services. But sporting events are far from dead – we’ll probably see big football crowds this fall. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/152 "2020-05-14T20:27:33Z")
Well, my point wasn’t that the virulence of these diseases are necessarily comparable, but rather, that pandemic respiratory viruses do not, historically, result in major and permanent social changes, and that they tend not to loom all that large in collective memory after the fact. (This is basically true of Spanish flu as well, although most people have at least _heard_ of that one.) ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/153 "2020-05-14T20:45:05Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Well, my point wasn’t that the virulence of these diseases are necessarily comparable, but rather, that pandemic respiratory viruses do not, historically, result in major and permanent social changes, and that they tend not to loom all that large in collective memory after the fact. (This is basically true of Spanish flu as well, although most people have at least _heard_ of that one.) I think the long-term impact is directly connected to the virulence and lethality. The flu pandemics of the past (mostly) had \< 0.1% infection fatality rate. That makes for reasonably large numbers when it sweeps through the population, but the overall continuing perceived risk is small. COVID appears to have an IFR around 1%, which is an order of magnitude worse than the flu, and as a result its generated a much stronger response, but probably still not scary enough for people to think “I need to change my whole way of life long-term” in the aftermath. But imagine a viral respiratory pandemic as easily transmittable as COVID with 10% or 20% IFR. You’d see societal upheaval, and the crowded sporting arena probably would not reappear for a generation. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/154 "2020-05-16T13:18:23Z")
The stupid open office design done by cheapskate places may go away. That assumes the business cares about health of employees which they may not. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/155 "2020-05-16T15:02:03Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I think the long-term impact is directly connected to the virulence and lethality. > > The flu pandemics of the past (mostly) had \< 0.1% infection fatality rate. That makes for reasonably large numbers when it sweeps through the population, but the overall continuing perceived risk is small. > > COVID appears to have an IFR around 1%, which is an order of magnitude worse than the flu, and as a result its generated a much stronger response, but probably still not scary enough for people to think “I need to change my whole way of life long-term” in the aftermath. > > But imagine a viral respiratory pandemic as easily transmittable as COVID with 10% or 20% IFR. You’d see societal upheaval, and the crowded sporting arena probably would not reappear for a generation. The Spanish flu’s IFR was at least as high as COVID if not higher. Not really remembered, not really impactful. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/156 "2020-05-16T15:24:21Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > The stupid open office design done by cheapskate places may go away. That assumes the business cares about health of employees which they may not. If a lot of employees keep working from home, there will be plenty of floor space to install cubicles. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/157 "2020-05-17T03:24:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This pandemic will hopefully sound the death knell for the anti-vaxxer movement. I saw a guy on Twitter today who said: 1. Smallpox never disappeared because smallpox is not a thing. It’s just “bad chicken pox,” and we still have chicken pox. Monkey pox is also the same disease. Since no one could tell him who had proven the smallpox virus causes smallpox, he must be right. 2. Polio also isn’t really a thing because some people are still paralyzed. 3. Of course vaccines cause autism and only people who hate Moms think otherwise. COVID-19 will INCREASE antivaxxers. Big time. It’s already a very common belief that it’s a hoax put forward by Bill Gates and other liberals to force vaccines on people so microchips can be implanted in them. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/158 "2020-05-19T17:25:18Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > The Spanish flu’s IFR was at least as high as COVID if not higher. Not really remembered, not really impactful. True. I think that’s still consistent with my claims. An IFR of a few percent isn’t enough to change long-term behavior. If it had an IFR of 10-20%, it would be a bigger deal. I also really only see long-term changes lasting a generation. Adults don’t change their behavior because Grandma tells them about all the people who died of whatever when she was younger. People who lived through a disaster change their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/159 "2020-05-20T14:22:40Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I also really only see long-term changes lasting a generation.\*\* Adults don’t change\*\* their behavior because Grandma tells them about all the people who died of whatever when she was younger. People who lived through a disaster change their behavior. Adults may not change, but the kids they raise won’t have to change, they’ll just be raised that way to begin with. Who taught you to shake hands when you first meet someone? Your parents, most likely. If you don’t pass that along, or even better, actively tell your kids to do something else, like bow or something, they’ll never develop that habit. Same with masks. If kids are told that _of course_ you wear a mask in public if you’re sick, to them, that will just be normal. Same with any of the other behavior changes. If we change now because we see that it is needed, and then teach our kids to do these things because that’s just the way it’s done, the kids will never know anything different. So, which changes will stick? Those that the parents of today decide will stick. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112/160 "2020-05-26T08:36:39Z")
In Australia, things that are unlikely to change back: 1. Tele-medicine. Tele-medicine was artificially restricted by all insurance agencies in Aus, because of fear of fraud. Restrictions were relaxed for COVID-19, and are unlikely to go back. 2. Digital signatures, video witnessing, e-conveyancing. 3. Video AGM’s for listed companies. These are all things that could have happened before, but they’ve happened now, and probably won’t change back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/assuming-america-survives-this-name-permanent-changes-to-american-life/853112.md?page=9)