# Astoundingly poor judgement: The curious case of psychic police tipster Presley “Rhonda” Gridley **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015 "2013-06-14T19:29:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/21 "2013-06-15T23:29:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I think the police have a duty to do nothing when the substance of the tip is, “An invisible ghost told me to tell you…”. The appropriate response is, “Well, tell that ghost to come to the station and tell me himself, and we’ll get a warrant.” Since when is hearsay probable cause? Taking these in reverse order… Hearsay is not allowed where the rules of evidence apply (at trial or in a testimonial deposition). An affidavit for a warrant is not such an instance. Many affidavits for warrants rely on hearsay to furnish probable cause (as when the police or state’s attorney seeks a warrant on the basis of an anonymous informant’s report). However, the reliability of the hearsay statement has to be explained. By “duty,” I assume you mean “good policy.” That is, you do not mean to suggest that a police department that seeks to obtain a warrant on the basis of information gathered through a Ouija board session has violated any legal restriction (now, a magistrate who issues one, on the other hand …). Now, routine violations of what most voters consider good policy can often lead to such unhappy outcomes as losing an election for Police Chief, or Mayor (if that’s who’s doing the appointing), or State’s Attorney. And these are perceived as just as bad outcomes as losing a lawsuit. But there is no legal duty to refrain from seeking a warrant on the basis of bogus psychic visions. Assuming that this is an instance where warrants were not required (open fields), do the police have a legal duty to refrain from investigating (since the intermediary of a warrant application to a magistrate is not present)? No, I don’t think so. But again, this is the sort of blundering police work that effects extra-legal bad outcomes (like being fired as Chief of Police). (See our penultimate Commissioner of Internal Revenue, for instance.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/22 "2013-06-15T23:41:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Crazy people witness crimes too. But the psychic didn’t claim to witness a crime. She claimed the invisible spirit of the victims witnessed a crime. I don’t think the police have any duty to investigate her claim beyond interviewing her to satisfy what should have been their initial conclusion, namely that she was nucking futz. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/23 "2013-06-15T23:58:44Z")
So what did the police find in Gridley’s back yard? And if the answer is that they didn’t search it, then why the Hell not? They had a lot more probable cause for going there than to the other folks’ place. As the old saw goes, the police have a name for someone who claims to be able to tell them reliable information about the circumstances of a crime with no understandable explanation: They call that person a “suspect”. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/24 "2013-06-16T00:47:22Z")
The police involvement is demonstrably crazy. I mean, “a duty to investigate?” What if I told them I’d been told my a gopher stolen jewels were stashed in your (the hypothetical you) liver? Would they “have to” cut your liver open just in case I was an accomplice to the gopher? No, this story fails the common sense test resoundingly and embarrassingly. Especially considering that with _actual evidence_ the police often fail to act or fail to follow up (it’s happened in my own experience). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/25 "2013-06-16T00:54:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But the psychic didn’t claim to witness a crime. She claimed the invisible spirit of the victims witnessed a crime. I don’t think the police have any duty to investigate her claim beyond interviewing her to satisfy what should have been their initial conclusion, namely that she was nucking futz. My apologies if I was too subtle in my previous post. My point was that you can’t simply say that a person can’t know anything about a murder because they’re delusional. Plenty of murders are committed by delusional people. A psychic can witness a crime - if they committed the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/26 "2013-06-16T02:02:37Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > The police involvement is demonstrably crazy. I mean, “a duty to investigate?” What if I told them I’d been told my a gopher stolen jewels were stashed in your (the hypothetical you) liver? Would they “have to” cut your liver open just in case I was an accomplice to the gopher? Of course not. That’s what we have X-Ray machines for. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/27 "2013-06-16T02:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Deputies from the Liberty County Sheriff’s office went to investigate but didn’t see anything amiss. After a second call the following day, dozens of officials from the Texas Department of Public Safety, the FBI and the Texas Rangers were on the scene—not to mention cadaver dogs, news helicopters and gawkers. _Idly wonders how they train cadaver dogs_ ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/28 "2013-06-16T05:21:13Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > _Idly wonders how they train cadaver dogs_ With a bottle of [Stiff Whiff.](http://leerburg.com/cadaver.htm) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/29 "2013-06-16T05:50:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I think the police have a duty to do nothing when the substance of the tip is, “An invisible ghost told me to tell you…”. The appropriate response is, “Well, tell that ghost to come to the station and tell me himself, and we’ll get a warrant.” Since when is hearsay probable cause? Well like I said, It’s a tough one, and I’m not sure I could put a finger on exactly what they should do. But for an imperfect analogy, if my 6 year old kid came in and said “Abraham Lincoln started some rags on fire in the garage” My first thought would not be to scientifically explain how Lincoln was dead and could not have done anything of the sort. My first thought would be “get my ass to the garage, now!” There is a point at which a BS attribution doesn’t mean the claim should be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/30 "2013-06-16T07:37:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wonder how these 32 souls and spirits knew they were buried in the same place. It seems like it must have been a coincidence. I picture a couple of them hanging out in a bar and chatting… > > “So. where ya buried?” > “Some guy’s backyard in Texas.” > “No shit! Me too. Which county?” _snicker_ > [@wolfman](#): > > That would be a tough one. When someone gives a tip, based on crap. Can you really afford to do nothing? Maybe she is just trying to protect an old poker buddy who got drunk and said where they were. Or maybe she overheard it on a bus and delusions made her think it was spirits. I think they do have to “act” on it to some extent. > > However, “A ghost told you? Well boys bring out the backhoes!” is not an appropriate “action”. I could see running a cadaver dog, and an overflight with a helicopter [to check for disturbed area indicating something might be buried there] and possibly requesting permission to search the house. As to finding blood on the porch - I would hate to luminol our back deck - we had a pair of feral dogs get into a fight and rip a chicken in half. [one of our chickens was a houdini and would frequently escape the coop and end up on the porch scrounging cat kibble, a pair of feral dogs chased her up onto the porch, both grabbed at her and were playing keep away when I shot them] so even despite really scrubbing the heck out of the deck and back wall, there has got to be wicked blood spatter evidence there. In our bathroom and kitchen it would look like an abatoire, as both mrAru and I have bleed thanks to random injuries being dealt with. And the back of my old IH scout has blood spatter from hauling an injured ewe to the large animal vet in town. You _can’t_ take blood spatter to indicate humans or foul play all the time - there are lots of legitimate reasons for bloodspatter that do not involve murder or mayhem. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/31 "2013-06-16T08:21:38Z")
> [@trabajabamos](#): > > Second, hanging Gridley out to dry for making a(n obviously) false statement to the police is just sad. The statement that, “the spirits told me about a mass grave”, is not even true enough to be false. Yea, that bothers me to. She told them upfront that she was acting on “visions”. Putting aside whether the police acted appropriately to that information, I don’t think its fair to find her liable for what happened. She doesn’t seem to be a con-artist (there isn’t really any way she could’ve profited out of this) or a lonely attention seeker (she tried to stay anonymous). It seems plausible she really thought she had visions and was trying to help. So far as I can tell, she didn’t lie about the level of evidence she had. > [@kimmy](#): > > In other words, no, there is no trespass. The government cannot “trespass” in any meaningful sense. The limitations on the sovereign right to enter land within its jurisdiction are (1) the search and seizure protections of the Fourth Amendment, and (2) the Takings Clause restrictions of the Fifth Amendment. Neither have been violated here (under the facts as we are understanding them to be). Interesting, but in this case [the house was searched](http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2012/09/couple_suing_over_false_report.php), so presumably the cops had a warrant. (and apparently left in rough shape, at least according to the couple). ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/32 "2013-06-16T11:19:22Z")
Every possible explanation except “dumb people believe in psychics and cops are almost universally dumb people” being bandied about to avoid stating the obvious, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/33 "2013-06-16T12:32:18Z")
Wonder what the cops would do if they starting getting phone calls about mass graves in the backyards of county officials? Or maybe the Sheriff? Or maybe their fellow cops’ yards? Like one or two a day. Bet the contrast would be illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/34 "2013-06-16T12:52:16Z")
Joe Bankston and Gena Charlton probably put Presley “Rhonda” Gridley up to it so they could get the cops to till their soil. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/35 "2013-06-20T15:24:00Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Wonder what the cops would do if they starting getting phone calls about mass graves in the backyards of county officials? Or maybe the Sheriff? Or maybe their fellow cops’ yards? Like one or two a day. Bet the contrast would be illuminating. Just wait 'till you hear about SWAT-ting… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/36 "2013-06-20T15:59:18Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Interesting, but in this case [the house was searched](http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2012/09/couple_suing_over_false_report.php), so presumably the cops had a warrant. (and apparently left in rough shape, at least according to the couple). They did have a warrant (based on the blood discussed above). It’s just as likely that the family would have consented to the search, though. Innocent people often cooperate with police thinking their cooperation will demonstrate that they have nothing to hide. [QUOTE=Condescending Robot] Every possible explanation except “dumb people believe in psychics and cops are almost universally dumb people” being bandied about to avoid stating the obvious, eh? [/QUOTE] Explanation for what? It wasn’t just cops; a judge issue a warrant based in part on the “informant”. ---
**Author:** ![gena\_c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gena\_c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gena_c)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/37 "2013-07-12T16:58:01Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > No argument there. And even if there were such a thing as an actual psychic, that wouldn’t mean that everyone claiming to be a psychic is telling the truth, or that all “visions” or spiritual revelations accurately reflect reality. > > Didn’t they need a search warrant to tear up the couple’s home? And doesn’t a search warrant require more in the way of probable cause than a phone call from a self-described psychic? There is more going on in Liberty County than people realize. And those responsible for the “search” were… well… they would have been suspended from any school in the USA for bad behavior had they been that young. Several had been “let go” from Harris County PD prior to Liberty hiring them. And the judge who signed the warrant was opposing counsel to Charlton in a nasty divorce. bankson and Charlton were notified of the search by reporters while they were in Dallas. It was a drama and a disaster and a mess. Wish people could know the entire story though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/38 "2013-07-12T17:20:02Z")
> [@gena\_c](#): > > There is more going on in Liberty County than people realize. And those responsible for the “search” were… well… they would have been suspended from any school in the USA for bad behavior had they been that young. Several had been “let go” from Harris County PD prior to Liberty hiring them. And the judge who signed the warrant was opposing counsel to Charlton in a nasty divorce. bankson and Charlton were notified of the search by reporters while they were in Dallas. It was a drama and a disaster and a mess. Wish people could know the entire story though. Do you have a role in any and/or all of this, or are you just interested in the case? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/39 "2013-07-12T21:37:36Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > one of our chickens was a houdini and would frequently escape the coop and end up on the porch scrounging cat kibble, a pair of feral dogs chased her up onto the porch, both grabbed at her and were playing keep away > [@](#): > > You _can’t_ take blood spatter to indicate humans or foul play all the time Very true. It could be fowl play. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015/40 "2013-07-13T06:59:18Z")
> [@gena\_c](#): > > And the judge who signed the warrant was opposing counsel to Charlton in a nasty divorce. Things like this are often at the bottom of such cases. A few years ago, we had a widely-publicized child-sex ring case here in Minnesota prosecuted by the County Attorney. Lots of wild accusations leaked to the press of satanic sex rituals, possibly buried bodies, etc. Eventually nothing came of it, charges were dropped when it was shown that the child witnesses had been coached & rewarded for telling the desired stories, etc. The first guy accused? Just happened to be the campaign manager for the candidate who ran against that County Attorney. The ‘investigation’ expanded to include a lot of others – most of them were campaign volunteers for that candidate. Odd how that happened. Seemed to me that the County taxpayer’s money was used (a tremendous amount) to smear a political opponent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astoundingly-poor-judgement-the-curious-case-of-psychic-police-tipster-presley-rhonda-gridley/661015.md?page=3)