# Astral Projection **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542 "2004-04-28T19:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/161 "2004-05-13T01:21:02Z")
> [@lambchops](#): > > \And in your sig, it should be Batty, not Baty.\ I’m a man of my word. I tried email, but the door was locked… Thanks. I’m glad that someone has a sense of what is truly important… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/162 "2004-05-13T01:26:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Here’s a clue for you. > Just because you imagine or dream(same damn thing) that a unicorn was in your garden, you _really_ shouldn’t waste your time looking for magic dung in the begonias. With a high heart, because there was a unicorn in his garden, Aeschines went upstairs and roused his wife again. “The unicorn ate a begonia,” he said. –with apologies to James Thurber ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/163 "2004-05-13T01:32:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > With a high heart, because there was a unicorn in his garden, Aeschines went upstairs and roused his wife again. “The unicorn ate a begonia,” he said. > > –with apologies to James Thurber Remember what I said about a poor manner? Contumelious behavior. I’ve called you numerous times on your “Randi Prize” BS argument, but you’re a CD with a serious skip, it seems. Bleh. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/164 "2004-05-13T01:53:10Z")
> [@Snakespirit](#): > > First of all James Randi is a showman, and he’s got tons of people snowed with his “offer.” It’s a **publicity gimmick** to make himself look good, and if he ever gave the prize out he’d lose face. IMO he’d lie, cheat and steal to keep his paws on that $1M. Not to mention, he’d lose a million bucks. Wrong. It is not his money and he does not control where it goes if the conditions are met and the test takes place. [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) > [@](#): > > Most scientific studies on the fringe not only don’t have the time to jump through Randi’s hoops, they wouldn’t want the negative publicity that would come from playing poker with a card shark. Wrong. If you think you don’t have the time to do what you claim to do every day in a simple test that could net you a cool mil, your fundraising department is missing some incredibly easy cash. [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) > [@](#): > > Randi knows enough deceptive tricks to spoil any positive outcome, an anyone who thinks he wouldn’t (or hasn’t) use(d) them is being naieve. Wrong. Randi is not involved in the actual test. Does he know how people can cheat? Of course, and that’s why he suspects others are doing it to fool people or out of ignorance. [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) > [@](#): > > Let me spell it out: > > James Randi is a deceiver, an _admitted_ deceiver. He does things that are good for James Randi, not science. He revels in making people who are self-deceived look like the deceiver he is. It’s called misdirection. Wrong. What he is proposing is extremely good science. He is accusing the challengers of the opposite, and is giving them a chance to prove their claims under valid, difficult-to-deceive conditions. All they have to do is what they say they can do, no more, no less. Both parties have to agree on all conditions before the test takes place. How much fairer could a test be? [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) > [@](#): > > On the flip side, he has likely exposed a few frauds as well. Right. Peter Popoff is one. > [@](#): > > In fact, if anything, I would say the opposite of what you posit: that ANY group or individual that rushes out to grab it, or at least apply for it, is open to suspicion. Why? because they can’t perform as promised? They are afraid to be uncovered? They can’t prove what they claim? Could it be {horrors} that their position has no validity? Is that even _one_ possibility? [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) > [@](#): > > He teaches the blind to lead the blind, and has no place in this discussion. Wrong. In any discussion of the paranormal, and Astral Projection falls squarely in that category, all the doubters ask for is PROOF. Randi offers a simple way to provide that proof with a great reward at the end. Step right up, do your thing, do not pass GO, but collect a million dollars! [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/165 "2004-05-13T02:06:35Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > With a high heart, because there was a unicorn in his garden, Aeschines went upstairs and roused his wife again. “The unicorn ate a begonia,” he said. Hey, cat. Humor’s one thing, but this’ gonna be interpreted as harassment. You trying to get this thread closed? How about throwing in a smilie or something? > [@](#): > > **Czarcasm** appears in the wings, snapping a big padlock open and shut. No, no… He was only joking!!! Go back! (to be continued…) (fade) Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! with thanks to the originator of this technique, name lost temporarily. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/166 "2004-05-13T02:26:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > [Read the challenge.](http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html) OK. > [@](#): > > This offer is administered by the JREF, and no one may negotiate or make any changes, \*\*except as set forth in writing by James Randi \*\* (JR). OK… > [@Musicat](#): > > Wrong. It is not his money and he does not control where it goes Oh Yeah? > [@](#): > > I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions. I think I’ve had quite enough of the ‘James Randi is my hero’ crap. I also read his website and some of his ‘news reports.’ Rubbish and Mind Control. I choose to disbelieve in his sincerity. Piece ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/167 "2004-05-13T02:36:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, and they laughed at Bozo, too. :rolleyes: > > If you want to convince anyone who doesn’t already believe in it, you are going to have to come up with verifiable and repeatable evidence that _a part of the human body that is invisible and unmeasurable can walk through walls and defy gravity, see without optic nerves, move without muscles or any other known means of transportation, live without a physical heart, hear without a working set of ears and think without a physical brain._ > > Here’s an exercise for the rest of you: How much science has to be totally cast aside for astral projection to be possible? But it has been proven in near death experiences. Guess you missed it, read the NDE researchers material. Lots of evidence that life continues after death. There are called veridical NDEs. They have been verified. Scientific studies and all have agreed with them. I will admit this material is only for those who seek truth. Everyone will understand it at some point in their life. Love ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/168 "2004-05-13T02:37:20Z")
> [@Snakespirit](#): > > OK. > > OK… > Oh Yeah? > > I think I’ve had quite enough of the ‘James Randi is my hero’ crap. > > I also read his website and some of his ‘news reports.’ Rubbish and Mind Control. > I choose to disbelieve in his sincerity. > > Piece The point is that Randi doesn’t make the decision about who gets the money. He can’t reneg if he wants to. Would you care to elaborate about what part of the JREF site is “rubbish and mind control?” ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/169 "2004-05-13T02:53:08Z")
> [@Snakespirit](#): > > > [@Musicat](#): > > > > Wrong. It is not his money and he does not control where it goes. > > Oh Yeah? Yeah. From the challenge: > [@](#): > > …within ten days [of a successful result] the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward, for a total of US$1,000,000. One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the “James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account,” as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail. FYI, originally, the prize money was 10,000 cash, James Randi's cash. Later over a million in pledges were collected at $1000 a pop. I believe some of this was converted to cash just to make the prize more certain. You can hardly get more solid and sure than this offer. > [@Snakespirit](#): > > I think I’ve had quite enough of the ‘James Randi is my hero’ crap. > > I also read his website and some of his ‘news reports.’ Rubbish and Mind Control. Mind Control? 😕 > [@](#): > > I choose to disbelieve in his sincerity. Perhaps you do. But if I truly, truly believed I had a psychic power and I could prove it as much as I can prove death and taxes are inevitable, I would be first in line to get a chance at that loot. If I could teleport as easily as some people have claimed they can with AP, I would fly my very own psychic self to the JREF doorstep in a minute so I wouldn’t miss all that incredibly easy money. ---
**Author:** ![VertexShader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@VertexShader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VertexShader)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/170 "2004-05-13T02:58:02Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > But it has been proven in near death experiences. Guess you missed it, read the NDE researchers material. Lots of evidence that life continues after death. There are called veridical NDEs. They have been verified. Scientific studies and all have agreed with them. > > I will admit this material is only for those who seek truth. > > Everyone will understand it at some point in their life. **Lekatt** , You never cease to amaze me, have you read NOTHING I have written? Near-death-Experiences, do exist, but they are caused by a DRUG. Its called DMT, can you say that with me? D…M…T. Good. This drug is illegal, but it is in each and every one of us. It causes INTENSE hallucinations…hallucinations that completely override reality. You know what I’m talking about. Why is that so hard to accept? Oh, wait, because it means that your excuse for believing in God is flawed. Yes, the truth hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/171 "2004-05-13T03:46:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > But it has been proven in near death experiences. Do you _always_ selectively ignore people who show that you’re wrong? You listed links to supposed scientific studies proving NDEs. However _none_ of your links prove NDEs. In fact, of all your links, only two are scientific studies at all. One of them is actually a news story that _talks_ about a study, and not the study itself. It also states that the testing procedure for the study has not yet been finalized. The other never once claims that NDEs are real. Have you even bothered to read your own cites? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/172 "2004-05-13T05:10:59Z")
I have BBQ Pit-worthy things to say about Musicat and others who keep harping on the Randi Challenge, but I will hold my tongue as this is GD. You are coming close–no, let’s just say it–dissembling about the content of this challenge in a manner that can only be described as bald-faced. First I would like to point something out that is of key importance: **The relationship between Randi the man and JREF is completely unclear.** Your claims that Randi himself will be doing this or not doing that is based on nothing whatsoever. Rather, wording in the challenge itself contradicts your claim that JREF is doing it, not Randi. Let’s take a look at some quotes therefrom: **All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, and no judging process is required.** This is supposed to be scientific? Any type of measurement or analysis could be considered a “judging process.” And if there is to be a judge, his/her merely peering at the “self-evident” results could be considered a “process.” Any real skeptic worth his/her salt will have qualms with the above quote. **Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the testing may be used freely by JREF in any way that Mr. Randi may choose.** This would seem to indicate that the will of JREF and that of Randi the individual are one and the same. **This offer is made by James Randi through the JREF, and not on behalf of any other person, agency or organization, though others may become involved in the examination of claims, others may add their reward money to the total in certain circumstances, and the implementation and management of the challenge will be carried out by James Randi via the James Randi Educational Foundation.** You are free to interpret this poor writing however you choose. But if you wish to claim that JREF is some independent and objective organization not directly controlled by Randi the individual, I should think this requires additional proof. **Upon the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize will pass into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force.** In fairness, this is a quote that hints at independence and objectivity. If this is sufficient proof of the matter for you, however, you are no skeptic. In sum, the challenge is written in extremely poor legalese, and its terms represent either an ignorance or flouting of the scientific method (quote 1 above). If this is all the skeptics have, I suggest it is time to reload. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/173 "2004-05-13T05:16:57Z")
> [@VertexShader](#): > > Near-death-Experiences, do exist, but they are caused by a DRUG. Its called DMT, can you say that with me? D…M…T. Good. You got a cite for that, pard? I have seen articles regarding the similarity of ketamine-induced experiences and NDEs, but not ones for DMT. Is this your own private hypothesis at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/174 "2004-05-13T05:47:33Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I have BBQ Pit-worthy things to say about Musicat and others who keep harping on the Randi Challenge, but I will hold my tongue as this is GD. You are coming close–no, let’s just say it–dissembling about the content of this challenge in a manner that can only be described as bald-faced. Oh give it a break. They’re not lying about the JREF, so don’t suggest that they are. By all means, go to the Pit, but I don’ t think it would be pleasant. About your points: > [@](#): > > **All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, and no judging process is required.** > This is supposed to be scientific? Any type of measurement or analysis could be considered a “judging process.” And if there is to be a judge, his/her merely peering at the “self-evident” results could be considered a “process.” Any real skeptic worth his/her salt will have qualms with the above quote. The idea is that the entrant should designs the experiment in such a way that the result should be inarguable. That is, Bob claims to be able to levitate objects, they agree that if two out of five ping pong balls spontaneously rises up, the experiment is proven. Bob does this, two or more ping pong balls fly up, he wins, no judging required. > [@](#): > > **Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the testing may be used freely by JREF in any way that Mr. Randi may choose.** > This would seem to indicate that the will of JREF and that of Randi the individual are one and the same. No, it merely says that this particular aspect of JREF’s operations is supervised by Randi. Most of Microsoft’s big decisions might be made by Bill Gates, but that doesn’t mean that Bill Gates and Microsoft are interchangable, or that Microsoft does not exist as an entity. [ > [@](#): > > b]This offer is made by James Randi through the JREF, and not on behalf of any other person, agency or organization, though others may become involved in the examination of claims, others may add their reward money to the total in certain circumstances, and the implementation and management of the challenge will be carried out by James Randi via the James Randi Educational Foundation.\*\* > You are free to interpret this poor writing however you choose. But if you wish to claim that JREF is some independent and objective organization not directly controlled by Randi the individual, I should think this requires additional proof. As others have mentioned, this thing began as a personal challenge by Randi - “show me supernatural powers, I’ll give you $10,000”. More people donated money and together they used an organisation, JREF, to administer the challenge. That’s what this says - James Randi has kicked in the money, and others have added to it, James Randi manages the JREF. The rules are written down and challengers sign a contract agreeing to these rules. Is there any evidence that Randi, or the JREF, is moving the goalposts? > [@](#): > > In sum, the challenge is written in extremely poor legalese, and its terms represent either an ignorance or flouting of the scientific method (quote 1 above). If this is all the skeptics have, I suggest it is time to reload. How does point one show that Randi / the JREF doesn’t understand scientific methodology? Point one aims to remove any possible human factor, any possible doubt, any possible faulty interpretation by blinkered old-fashioned scientists. Point one is the essence of the scientific method. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/175 "2004-05-13T06:11:47Z")
**Aeschines** , how did I “hijack” this thread?!? The topic is the supposed reality of astral projection-just look at the frickin’ title! As far as James Randi’s offer being any good, you shouldn’t comment until you have evidence that someone passed the test and Randi refused to pay the money. Until then, keep your Pit-worthy comments out of this thread, o.k.? About those links that **lakatt** provides, over and over and over and over and over again-most of the time they are off topic(an aside to **lakatt** -_dreaming_ about a near death experience doesn’t mean you actually had one, anymore than dreaming about flying makes you Hawkman), and the few times they are on topic, they are absolutely and unquestionably useless scientifically. You know what? It might help if you could decide which side of the picket fence you are currently straddling to come down on. When some small event is misinterpreted scientifically, you claim that science supports you, but when mountains of _real_ science goes against you, you claim that science is not the best way to look at the situation. The scientific process isn’t some sort of game where you get to look for loopholes and obscure bylaws that allow you to “win” some sort of glamor, and most of us who use and respect science really resent how some of you pay only hypocritical lip service to its cause. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/176 "2004-05-13T07:38:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **Aeschines** , how did I “hijack” this thread?!? You are not quoting me but someone else–I have not used the word “hijack” in this thread. Nor do I think I have said anything pitworthy. > [@](#): > > As far as James Randi’s offer being any good, you shouldn’t comment until you have evidence that someone passed the test and Randi refused to pay the money. I have never said that Randi would not pay the money if someone passed the test. I have merely said that claims that JREF is some independent, fair, and objective organization **are completely UNSUPPORTED** by the self-labeled skeptics who speak of the challenge in glowing terms, who continually and **disingenuously** claim that if psychic powers existed the prize would have been claimed by now. I have never seen any information posted whatsoever about the makeup of this body, its history, or anything. Where’s the real skepticism, people? ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/177 "2004-05-13T09:44:52Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You got a cite for that, pard? I have seen articles regarding the similarity of ketamine-induced experiences and NDEs, but not ones for DMT. Is this your own private hypothesis at this point? For a tentative cite, see first post on 2nd page of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/178 "2004-05-13T09:46:04Z")
Oops, make that 3rd page. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/179 "2004-05-13T12:00:18Z")
Basically, this thread boils down to this: **rationallist** : “When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.” **lekatt** , et al: “When you hear hoofbeats, think unicorns, not horses.” ---
**Author:** ![VertexShader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@VertexShader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VertexShader)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542/180 "2004-05-13T12:53:58Z")
What convinces me that DMT causes near-death-experiences is the similarity of the symptoms. [http://www.newchurch.org/faq/indepthfaq/swedenbNearDeathExperience.html](http://www.newchurch.org/faq/indepthfaq/swedenbNearDeathExperience.html) Near-death-experiences: “ **You begin to hear an uncomfortable buzzing or ringing in your ears** , and at the same time you **feel yourself moving rapidly** through a long tunnel. After this, you suddenly find yourself **outside of your physical body** but still in the immediate environment, and you see your own body from a distance, as though you are a spectator. You watch the resuscitation attempt by the doctors from this unusual vantage point, and feel a sense of **emotional upheaval**.” Then, quoting Erowid ([http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt\_effects.shtml](http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_effects.shtml)) Effects of DMT: POSITIVE short duration immersive experiences intense open eye visuals and kaleidescopic patterning **powerful “rushing” of sensation** **radical perspective shifting** **profound life-changing spiritual experiences** NEUTRAL change in perception of time **auditory hallucination (buzzing)** colorshifting (for example red green and gold coloring to the whole world) NEGATIVE overly-intense experiences hard on the lungs to smoke slight stomach discomfort difficulty integrating experiences overwhelming fear fast onset and intensity can lead to problems if not prepared (dropped pipe, knocking things over, falling) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astral-projection/242542.md?page=10)