# astro, it's NOT my fault! No means NO! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068 "2004-04-20T18:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/281 "2004-04-24T03:39:27Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Random: I agree with everything in your last post(if that offends you I will retract it) I have refrained from posting to this thread out of respect to the feelings of the OP. But, gosh rape is a serious charge. If a woman says no then it is rape but if a woman says OK then regrets it later it is not Rape, it is just a bad decision. I’m sorry if I sound like a broken record here, but, given the laws of rape in the majority of the states, this is just not true right now. A woman saying no, in the absence of force, does not constitute rape in the majority of jurisdictions. And force is defined as phsyical force. I think the law is wrong on this. But as I am discovering, the Villa seal of approval is not constitutionally necessary for criminal laws. More’s the pity, I might add. Rape is a damn serious charge and there is, as far as I am aware, no evidence that women (or men) allege rape falsely any more frequently than other serious crimes are alleged falsely. The difference is we do not rewrite the evidentiary standards of the law of theft because of an unfounded fear of a rash of false allegations. And no one is saying that a woman has the right to change her mind after the end of the sex and claim rape. That just isn’t the case, nor should it be. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/282 "2004-04-24T04:03:24Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > For those who are understansably reluctant to Google “bang stick”, it’s basically a metal rod with a cartridge of gun powder on the end. Considering Una’s mechanical skills, I wonder if she actually carries one. It might well be effective on a human assailant, and I don’t know of any laws against bang sticks. Nope, it was just in my head because of the odd topic turn to sharks, and having watched too many “Nova” episodes lately. Although actually I don’t think people use bang sticks much anymore because they do hurt the sharks. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/283 "2004-04-24T06:13:58Z")
> [@villa](#): > > there is, as far as I am aware, no evidence that women (or men) allege rape falsely any more frequently than other serious crimes are alleged falsely I would literally fall on my ass from shock if I saw proof that this was true. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/284 "2004-04-24T07:10:22Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I would literally fall on my ass from shock if I saw proof that this was true. “[M]ost law enforcement officials equate the amount of false reporting of sex offenses with that of every other category of crime…” Linda A. Farstein, Sexual Violence, Our War Against Rape, p.299 (Berkley Books, 1993)(Ms. Farstein was an Assistant Manhattan DA and Director of the Sex Crime s Prosecution Unit). Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/285 "2004-04-24T07:52:44Z")
[This site says a little different.](http://archives.cjr.org/year/97/6/rape.asp) > [@](#): > > But the FBI has been saying since 1991 that the annual rate for the false reporting of forcible sexual assault across the country has been a consistent 8 percent (through 1995, the most recent year available). _That’s four times higher than the average of the false-reporting rates of the other crimes tracked by the FBI in its Uniform Crime Report_. The agency’s guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred. A complainant’s failure or refusal to cooperate in the investigation does not, by itself, lead to a finding of false report. Of course, I can’t find the actual stats, only different people commenting on those stats. I see people stating that the rate is as high as 9%, and as low as less than 2%. Anyone have a link to actual FBI numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/286 "2004-04-24T11:03:22Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not going to cite specific posters, but there’s at least one story in this thread that, to me, is obviously a rape, even though the victim/poster says otherwise. I think there’s only one story this comment could apply to, so I’ll say that I agree 100%. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/287 "2004-04-25T03:50:42Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > [This site says a little different.](http://archives.cjr.org/year/97/6/rape.asp) > Of course, I can’t find the actual stats, only different people commenting on those stats. I see people stating that the rate is as high as 9%, and as low as less than 2%. > > Anyone have a link to actual FBI numbers? My issues with this would be in the first place that have not seen it cited to in any of the literature on the subject ( that I have read - no claim to have read it all) including the literature hostile to the claim at stake. That could of course be because it is relatively new, and so has not filtered into the secondary material yet. Also, I am not sure what the Feds are reporting on here. First, the definition of false report may be different. Further, if it is only dealing with crimes within the Federal system, I am not sure of its relevance to rape, which is overwhelmingly a state offense. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/288 "2004-04-25T05:18:51Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Also, I am not sure what the Feds are reporting on here. First, the definition of false report may be different. Further, if it is only dealing with crimes within the Federal system, I am not sure of its relevance to rape, which is overwhelmingly a state offense. > [@](#): > > The agency’s guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred Seems cut and dry, but that could be misleading. Also, the FBI has juristiciton in Federal cases, but the stats we are talking about are taken from state cases as well. At least, I’m pretty sure they are… ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/289 "2004-04-25T06:49:34Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Also, the FBI has juristiciton in Federal cases, but the stats we are talking about are taken from state cases as well. > > At least, I’m pretty sure they are… There seem to be way too many rapes the Feds have jusrisdiction over, but they are still a small minority. Actually, my assumption there are disproportionately many federal rapes is totally falsely founded. I just realized I am simply looking at a case book that is based on the federal rules of evidence so is skewed towards those cases. D’Oh! On a serious note, the fact it is the feds gathering stats on states makes me nervous. It does provide at least the possibility of a pissing match going on. The 2% figure is the one I see cited most, but I tend to have more respect for the 5% number that I cited from Farstein, as she was in the trenches on this. I also think the two numbers may actually be the same (as may the 9%) and simply be the result of differneces in calculation methods. For example, does it refer to reports in the sense of an official report to the police, or a call to the cops that a person’s boyfriend has attacked her. The two may not of course be the same. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/290 "2004-04-25T16:52:41Z")
> [@villa](#): > > There seem to be way too many rapes the Feds have jusrisdiction over. Department of Justice collects Uniform crime data, it is useful to map trends nationally. doesnt mean jurisdiction ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068/291 "2004-04-26T03:42:01Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Department of Justice collects Uniform crime data, it is useful to map trends nationally. doesnt mean jurisdiction Not actually what I meant, at all. I meant to say that there seems to be a disproportionate number of Federal Rape cases given their lack of jurisdiction over such offenses outside of Reservations, Military Bases, DC, etc. Of course, the reason I thought that was the unbelievably self-selecting data set I was looking at (a case book on the application of the Federal Rules of Evidence). 'Twas me being an idiot. Given that the book is also written by west coast based scholars, I am suprised I didn’t also assume that crimes are more common in Western states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astro-its-not-my-fault-no-means-no/241068.md?page=14)