# Astronauts Lose Another Bolt to Space **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531 "2006-09-13T12:52:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/1 "2006-09-13T12:52:27Z")
Actual headline in Yahoo: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060913/ap\_on\_sc/space\_shuttle](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060913/ap_on_sc/space_shuttle) I’m a bit concerned about this. I realize that things get clumsy with those gloves and all, but it seems to me that losing bolts (and spatulas) ought to be a major concern, considering the damage they can do. I don’t know exactly the procedures used now, but the article doesn’t mention any. There oughtta be. As long as the bolt remains nearby there shouldn’t be a problem (and, in the short term, it will stay close. It can’t have gotten much of a kick away from the shuttle, and it’s still subject to the same laws of motion. read Arthur C. Clarke’s story “Jupiter 5” sometime. But as time goes by and atmospheric drag and other effects start to shift the orbit around, and as other mission go up into slightly different orbits, that bolt can cause real harm if its velocity is significantly different from that of the object it encounters. _Psint chips_ habve caused damage to windows and the like. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/2 "2006-09-13T13:12:55Z")
Well, that’ll take some of the confusion out of threaded meteorites. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/3 "2006-09-13T13:17:31Z")
Isn’t there already an _awful lot_ of junk up there from all the previous missions? Wikipedia gives the amount at [100 tons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris) of space debris currently orbiting the planet. Obviously, we don’t want to _add_ to that by dumping stuff in space, but this isn’t really a new problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/4 "2006-09-13T13:26:14Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] _Psint chips_ habve caused damage to windows and the like. [/QUOTE] I read about this; I just wish those _Psints_ would be more careful with their food crumbs. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/5 "2006-09-13T14:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Obviously, we don’t want to add to that by dumping stuff in space, but this isn’t really a new problem. Granted, and I’ve known of it for a long time. But “Oh, well, it’s just another bolt in the pile” doesn’t cut it when that bolt can come along and puncture the next mission’s air tank. In the novel **2001** the nutsd securing the AE-35 unit were attached with _wires_ so they’d stay in place. Dave or whoever had to cut them loose to get the panel off. I don’t recall how he kept everything together after that, but losing them to space wasn’t acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/6 "2006-09-13T15:21:49Z")
> [@](#): > > There was no indication that the latest missing bolt went into the rotary joint or any other space station mechanisms, and the assumption is it floated away, NASA spokesman Grey Hautaluoma said. He said that the astronauts simply used three bolts for the task instead of four, and that there shouldn’t be a problem with that. > > MacLean ran into another small problem a short time later when an extension on his pistol-grip power tool broke while he was trying to remove a restraint on the rotary joint. > > “Son of a gun,” he muttered, then gathered the pieces in a trash bag so they wouldn’t float away and went to a toolbox to retrieve another. Y’know what this sounds like? Sounds like me working on my lawn mower this spring. “Drat, lost that screw – oh, well, they always put too many screws in these damn things anyway.” Hey, here’s an entrepreneurial idea: Ace in Space! Talk about your Helpful Hardware Man! ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/7 "2006-09-13T16:13:34Z")
The true problem here is that the trip to the nearest hardware store to pick up a replacement is a real bastard. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/8 "2006-09-13T16:54:52Z")
Lost bolt? There’s another $600 down the drain. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/9 "2006-09-13T17:17:11Z")
Since the lost bolt is orbiting with the station, how long before it moves away and starts to re-enter? Would something that small survive re entry or would it burn up? Who is liable should the bolt kill somebody? ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/10 "2006-09-13T17:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Since the lost bolt is orbiting with the station, how long before it moves away and starts to re-enter? Would something that small survive re entry or would it burn up? Who is liable should the bolt kill somebody? [/QUOTE] It will burn up. The things that survive reentry tend to be large and sturdy chunks of metal like safes and pressure vessels. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/11 "2006-09-13T17:42:59Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Since the lost bolt is orbiting with the station, how long before it moves away and starts to re-enter? [/QUOTE] Why would it move away and start to re-enter? ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/12 "2006-09-13T17:54:34Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] Why would it move away and start to re-enter? [/QUOTE] I was wondering that. If the Space Station is in orbital equilibrium (I guess that’s a term…) and the bolt was tossed towards space, wouldn’t it float away forever? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/13 "2006-09-13T18:24:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I was wondering that. If the Space Station is in orbital equilibrium (I guess that’s a term…) and the bolt was tossed towards space, wouldn’t it float away forever? Nope. It’s still partway down a gravity well. It’d have to be thrown away with sufficient oomph to escape the gravity well to keep on going. Otherwise, for small perturbations it simply executes oscillating motion around its original orbit. For bigger pushes, it goes into an elliptical orbit that still isn’t far from the original. To make it go away, either down to the earth or out into space, requires effort – the kind that means strapping a rocket onto it, or firing it out of something. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/14 "2006-09-13T18:57:28Z")
The ISS is low enough that atmospheric drag causes its orbit to decay. That’s why it must make periodic boosting burns. So an object in the same orbit without the benefit of boosters should eventually snag the atmosphere and burn up. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/15 "2006-09-13T19:13:17Z")
I don’t see what the problem is - I mean, when you’re repairing something, you always have the odd bit left over, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/16 "2006-09-13T19:29:50Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Otherwise, for small perturbations it simply executes oscillating motion around its original orbit. [/QUOTE] 😕 A small push away from the original orbit will just put the bolt into a new stable orbit of its own. The only thing that would cause it to oscillate around the original orbit would be if the space station was big enough to have a significant gravity well of its own. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/17 "2006-09-13T20:09:37Z")
[QUOTE=mks57] It will burn up. The things that survive reentry tend to be large and sturdy chunks of metal like safes and pressure vessels. [/QUOTE] Safes? Do space stations have a problem with unauthorized removal of material? What sort of thing do they keep in said safe? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/18 "2006-09-13T20:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > A small push away from the original orbit will just put the bolt into a new stable orbit of its own. The only thing that would cause it to oscillate around the original orbit would be if the space station was big enough to have a significant gravity well of its own. The stable orbit is viewable as an oscillation around the original orbit. The period of oscillation is an orbital period – it doesn’t look like a lot of wiggles around the original orbit, just one. Plot it out and see. ---
**Author:** ![acaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@acaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/acaos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/19 "2006-09-13T22:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=butler1850] Safes? Do space stations have a problem with unauthorized removal of material? What sort of thing do they keep in said safe? 😃 [/QUOTE] I believe the specific item referred to is a film safe, which was intended to protect film from radiation damage. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531/20 "2006-09-13T22:49:32Z")
Ok, now this might be a bit of a vague question, but… how fast would the bolt have to be propelled in an earthward direction to cause it to snag the atmosphere and re-enter before, say, completing another whole orbit? I know that this wouldn’t be as effective as just _slowing it down_ and allowing it to drop out of orbit, but humour me… WAGs and educted approximations are just fine - faster than a bullet from an average handgun? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/astronauts-lose-another-bolt-to-space/372531.md?page=2)