# At a Chinese restaurant: Mustard and ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689 "2015-05-24T01:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/21 "2015-05-24T19:00:40Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > Here’s a question: on your wonton, or your crab rangoon, which one do you eat? Chinese mustard! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/22 "2015-05-24T20:00:11Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > What it IS is duck sauce. What it gets called is duck sauce, sweet and sour sauce, plum sauce, which are really three different things. That’s not really now language works. Things _are_ what they are _called_. It’s just a question of whether you’re in a group that uses a particular name for something. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/23 "2015-05-24T20:23:46Z")
I only know sweet-and-sour sauce here. Growing up, the three packets invariably were soy, hot mustard, and sweet-and-sour. I am familiar with “duck sauce” from other regions. “Plum sauce” to me is something different. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/24 "2015-05-24T20:32:09Z")
Grew up in Chicago suburbs, lived in Chicago proper for (holy shit) almost 20 years. The red stuff in entrees is “sweet and sour.” The [orange stuff in the packets](http://www.looneystuff.com/looneystuff/double-hi-sweet-and-sour-sauce-individual-portion-500-1-4oz-packets-ff8081811ba399ad011c90d6d9ba56cc-p.html) was “sweet and sour.” The [stuff in the squeeze bottle on the table](http://www.thinkgarnish.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/meatball-madness_w.jpg) is “sweet and sour.” The [stuff sold for $1.10 at my local Chinese takeout](http://nanaystore.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Tasty_Joy_Sweet__Sour_Sauce_8oz.18113043_large.JPG) is “sweet and sour”. The[stuff in the grocery store](http://www.amazon.com/La-Choy-Sweet-Sauce-10-Ounce/dp/B00032E1J6)is “sweet and sour”. The [stuff at McDonald’s, Burger King and Long John Silver’s](http://archive.voxmagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/IMG_7414.jpg) is “sweet and sour.” I have only recently, in the last two years, noticed that[my packets now say “Duck Sauce,”](http://www.webstaurantstore.com/duck-sauce-500-8-gram-portion-packets-case/125PCDUK905.html?utm_source=amazon-pads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=125PCDUK905) and the stuff inside is sweet with a hint of umame, it is not sweet and sour, with vinegar. This is why I know how much a bottle of Sweet and Sour costs at my local Chinese takeout, because the packets are unacceptable now. I resent the intrusion of Duck Sauce into my Sweet and Sour world. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/25 "2015-05-24T21:42:26Z")
Yes, my experience is like WhyNot’s. While the sauces weren’t identical, we still used the same name for them. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/26 "2015-05-24T23:34:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s not really now language works. Things _are_ what they are _called_. It’s just a question of whether you’re in a group that uses a particular name for something. I’d agree with you if that’s what you were asking, but what I said is what it is if you know the different sauces. You can \*call \*one Pete Walmsley, but if you know it is Sweet and Sour, then you know there is a distinction to be made: what you call it vs. what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/27 "2015-05-24T23:43:36Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > I’d agree with you if that’s what you were asking, but what I said is what it is if you know the different sauces. You can \*call \*one Pete Walmsley, but if you know it is Sweet and Sour, then you know there is a distinction to be made: what you call it vs. what it is. No, what I was asking is what usages everyone is familiar with. If there are significant group of people that call it “sweet-and-sour sauce,” then in that group’s lexicon, it _is_ sweet-and-sour sauce. That’s how lexicons work. If there were significant numbers of people calling it “Pete Walmsley,” then it _is_ Pete Walmsley for that group. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/28 "2015-05-24T23:51:26Z")
I see, yes. That’s more precisely dialect or even idiolect than lexicon, btw. I still thought it might be helpful to lay out the different sauces and what they’re called in the jargon of Chinese cuisine. Upon reflection, I guess you could call that lexicon as a subset of a dialect. I’d normally refer to them as “lexical items” then, but lexicon isn’t wrong or imprecise. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/29 "2015-05-25T01:20:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s seems to me pretty much standard for American Chinese food. In a super-casual Chinese place, you might get it in little plastic packets or at a super-trendy place they might serve it in bowls, but egg rolls come with a bright yellow mustard sauce and a bright orange (what I would call sweet-and-sour) sauce — When I was growing up in western Canada, we would invariably get [packets of Wing’s Egg Roll Sauce](http://www.wingnoodles.com/en/products/sauces/egg-roll-sauce-portion-pak.php) with our takeout egg rolls. ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/30 "2015-05-25T02:06:20Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > What it IS is duck sauce. What it gets called is duck sauce, sweet and sour sauce, plum sauce, which are really three different things. > > Here’s a question: on your wonton, or your crab rangoon, which one do you eat? These days? Sweet chili sauce. Where was that yumminess my whole life? > [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s not really now language works. Things _are_ what they are _called_. It’s just a question of whether you’re in a group that uses a particular name for something. In this kind of case, yes. It is what it is wherever you are. Sweet and sour in the Chicago/Milwaukee area seems to be what people in other cities call duck sauce. So around here, generally speaking, the orange stuff is sweet and sour. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/31 "2015-05-25T02:19:01Z")
I have a friend who calls whatever is on the table to start with “Potato Chips.” She eats Chinese hard noodles: Chinese Potato Chips. Mexican tortilla strips: Mexican Potato Chips. Even Italian bread and oils: Italian Potato Chips. Particularly weird since American cuisine restaurants don’t really set out bowls of potato chips… Talk about idiolect. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/32 "2015-05-25T05:17:31Z")
I just went over this with my girlfriend. I’m a native Chicagoan, and never really had a name for the orange sauce. If I had to call it something, I’d have probably called it sweet-and-sour or plum sauce. She’s a native New Yorker, and grew up calling it duck sauce. I think the duck sauce thing is an East Coast term. And I NEVER heard of Chinese food that didn’t come with that hot, sinus-searing horseradish based mustard! ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/33 "2015-05-25T11:06:55Z")
Always been called plum sauce around here. Never heard it called duck sauce! Why isn’t plum sauce (which it actually IS), included in the poll? (You can purchase it at the store, clearly labelled Plum Sauce!) Seems silly not to. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/34 "2015-05-25T12:41:04Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Always been called plum sauce around here. Never heard it called duck sauce! > > Why isn’t plum sauce (which it actually IS), included in the poll? (You can purchase it at the store, clearly labelled Plum Sauce!) Seems silly not to. In my area, plum sauce is dark, thick, sweet and salty, and served with mu shu. [http://kame.com/sites/default/files/products/sauces/sauce\_plum\_main.jpg](http://kame.com/sites/default/files/products/sauces/sauce_plum_main.jpg) it’s ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/35 "2015-05-25T12:48:04Z")
WhyNot’s link is what plum sauce is here in NY too. Duck sauce is orange and sweet and sour is reddish orange. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/36 "2015-05-25T12:56:48Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > In my area, plum sauce is dark, thick, sweet and salty, and served with mu shu. [http://kame.com/sites/default/files/products/sauces/sauce\_plum\_main.jpg](http://kame.com/sites/default/files/products/sauces/sauce_plum_main.jpg) it’s The stuff with Mu Shu and Peking Duck is usually Hoisin sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/37 "2015-05-25T13:18:36Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > And I NEVER heard of Chinese food that didn’t come with that hot, sinus-searing horseradish based mustard! It’s not horseradish-based mustard. Or at least it doesn’t need to be. That sinus-clearing effect is natural to mustard-based mustard. > [@elbows](#): > > Always been called plum sauce around here. Never heard it called duck sauce! > > Why isn’t plum sauce (which it actually IS), included in the poll? (You can purchase it at the store, clearly labelled Plum Sauce!) Seems silly not to. I would have included it had I been aware that it was used that way. I’ve never heard or seen that usage. I did include an “other” option for answers that I did not anticipate. > [@wolfman](#): > > The stuff with Mu Shu and Peking Duck is usually Hoisin sauce. I have always heard “hoisin sauce” and “plum sauce” used interchangeably for that dark, thick, sweet and salty sauce served next to the Sriracha hot sauce at pho joints. As well as the sauce you get with mu shu pork. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/38 "2015-05-25T13:49:04Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Always been called plum sauce around here. Never heard it called duck sauce! > > Why isn’t plum sauce (which it actually IS), included in the poll? (You can purchase it at the store, clearly labelled Plum Sauce!) Seems silly not to. I happen to have a packet of Duck Sauce (I told you I eat a lot of Chinese food! :)) and the ingredients list Peaches and Apricots but no plums. I have had plum sauce and it is different. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/39 "2015-05-25T13:50:16Z")
I’m surprised there are places where Chinese restaurants don’t serve mustard. It’s essential in America. — [http://youtu.be/WLsE99V4sHE](http://youtu.be/WLsE99V4sHE) (One of the things that makes me sick about the revelations about Bill Cosby is that classic bits like this are now tainted) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689/40 "2015-05-25T14:44:20Z")
For me, my familiarity with “plum sauce” is of the dark kind, although I am aware of the lighter kind that is basically duck/sweet-and-sour sauce. I always thought of hoisin as something a little different (no plums), but it seems that the two terms are used fairly interchangeably in a lot of places. So Americanized/Anglicized names for Chinese food items appears to be ambiguous indeed! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-a-chinese-restaurant-mustard-and/720689.md?page=3)