# At last! A clear Explanation of the Difference Between England, the UK, Great Britain, etc... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 2, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869 "2011-02-02T06:39:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/41 "2011-02-06T22:58:13Z")
> [@BBC in 2009](#): > > More than 400,000 people in Northern Ireland have claimed Irish passports since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Irish Londonderry passport change](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7990990.stm)** > > The Irish government allows NI people applying for passports to list their place of birth as Londonderry. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/42 "2011-02-07T13:35:54Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I said they can not that they do as **TruCelt** has pointed out above but it does raise the interesting question as to how many people in NI carry one, other or both passports. It’s probably for another thread though. To be honest there were quite a few things you could get quite picky about in the video. It cleared up a lot for the uninitiated, but for someone that knows what he is talking about it also falls short in several areas (example: the declaration of the component nations of the UK as sovereign nations is clearly something that can be argued about - and that happens about 30 seconds in). The nationality of those in Northern Ireland was by far the worst offence though. For something that is purporting to clear things up, it is an unforgivable error. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/43 "2011-02-07T16:14:14Z")
Wouldn’t ‘IONA’ be easily confused with, um, Iona? I finally got a chance to actually watch the video; he states near the beginning that it’s best not to call people British, because they generally don’t like each other. There is a friendly rivalry, sure, but it doesn’t mean that many people would be offended by being called British. We call ourselves British all the time. Amanset, what was wrong with the nationality of Northern Ireland bit? He said they’re British, and they are. Sure, some of them have Irish passports too, but that doesn’t take away their British citizenship. I must be missing something. Orange was possibly not the most neutral choice of colour for Northern Ireland. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/44 "2011-02-07T16:30:53Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Amanset, what was wrong with the nationality of Northern Ireland bit? He said they’re British, and they are. Sure, some of them have Irish passports too, but that doesn’t take away their British citizenship. I must be missing something. > > Orange was possibly not the most neutral choice of colour for Northern Ireland. 😃 I think it’s because he words it “however, as the four constituent countries don’t have their own passports, they’re all British citizens like it or not.” which in the case of NI is muddied by what I posted about above. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/45 "2011-02-07T16:59:47Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > . . . > > Amanset, what was wrong with the nationality of Northern Ireland bit? He said they’re British, and they are. Sure, some of them have Irish passports too, but that doesn’t take away their British citizenship. I must be missing something. > > Orange was possibly not the most neutral choice of colour for Northern Ireland. 😃 Is this a whoosh? Calling the Northern Irish “British” is a bad idea for the same reason that coloring the region orange is a bad idea. I’ve said it here before: If you want to go up to Down and call my cousins “British” to their faces, please give me some advance warning, I’d like to make popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/46 "2011-02-07T17:17:34Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Is this a whoosh? > > Calling the Northern Irish “British” is a bad idea for the same reason that coloring the region orange is a bad idea. > > I’ve said it here before: If you want to go up to Down and call my cousins “British” to their faces, please give me some advance warning, I’d like to make popcorn. Because some people in Northern Ireland don’t like the term doesn’t make it inaccurate. If you were to refer to someone from NI as Irish then you risk implying that they’re from the Irish Republic, which would be factually wrong. This thread is starting to give me the impression that people from Ireland, north and south, are a liable to take exception to pretty much anything. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/47 "2011-02-07T17:19:37Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Because some people in Northern Ireland don’t like the term doesn’t make it inaccurate. If you were to refer to someone from NI as Irish then you risk implying that they’re from the Irish Republic, which would be factually wrong. > > This thread is starting to give me the impression that people from Ireland, north and south, are a liable to take exception to pretty much anything. It’s simple really, everyone born south of the border identifies as Irish, but in NI only roughly 2/3rds of people self identify as British. So just call them all friend and you’ll be ok. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/48 "2011-02-07T18:22:38Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I think it’s because he words it “however, as the four constituent countries don’t have their own passports, they’re all British citizens like it or not.” which in the case of NI is muddied by what I posted about above. 🙂 OK. See, that seems to me a pretty good way of saying that Northern Irish people are British _citizen_ without implying anything about their identities. Not having a British passport, or having a passport from another country, doesn’t mean you’re suddenly not a British citizen. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/49 "2011-02-07T18:47:31Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Amanset, what was wrong with the nationality of Northern Ireland bit? He said they’re British, and they are. Sure, some of them have Irish passports too, but that doesn’t take away their British citizenship. I must be missing something. It is, as they say, complex. > **[Northern Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland#Citizenship_and_identity)** > > – in Europe (green & dark grey)– in the United Kingdom (green) Northern Ireland\[d\] is a part of the United Kingdom in the north-east of the island of Ireland. It has been variously described as a country, province or region. Northern Ireland shares an open border to the south and west with the Republic of Ireland. At the 2021 census, its population was 1,903,175, making up around 3% of the UK's population and 27% of the population on the island of Ireland. The Northern Ireland Assembly, estab... > [@](#): > > 1998 Belfast Agreement between the British and Irish governments, which, provides that: it is the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to\*\* identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both,\*\* It is the “accepted as” part which is of interest. I’d say part of being “accepted as” would include people not insisting you are British when you don’t consider yourself so. The “or both” has the implied situation where someone can be solely Irish. > [@](#): > > Neither government, however, extends its citizenship to all persons born in Northern Ireland. Both governments exclude some people born in Northern Ireland (e.g. certain persons born in Northern Ireland neither of whose parents is a UK or Irish national). So it is entirely possible to be from Northern Ireland and not be British. Apparently. According to Wikipedia, which is good enough for me. I’m happy for someone to show that Wikipedia is wrong and, if possible, update the page though. Additionally, I’d be interested in how many people in Northern Ireland have renounced British citizenship if they had it. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/50 "2011-02-07T19:48:49Z")
Leaving aside the complication of recent immigrants I’d suggest that everyone of the Northern Irish ilk is British politically while also being Irish culturally. By that I mean a Republican is still a British citizen if they’re from Northern Ireland while a Loyalist is also culturally Irish. In fact didn’t Ian Paisley himself once state that he’d never deny that he’s an Irishman and as an another example Gerry Adams was until very recently a member of the British parliment? Had an interesting discussion recently on the rumour that the PSNI is going to move along with the rest of the UK to a standard UK-Wide uniform and in the process lose the distinctive green they currently have, my friend who lives here but is English couldn’t see the problem as he said we’re all part of the UK while my attitude is that although we’re part of the UK Northern Ireland is a seperate and distinct nation _(leaving aside the argument as to whether its a nation or not!)_ within that larger entity and the distinctive uniform should be retained. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/51 "2011-02-07T21:11:43Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > It is, as they say, complex. > > [Northern Ireland - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland#Citizenship_and_identity) > > It is the “accepted as” part which is of interest. I’d say part of being “accepted as” would include people not insisting you are British when you don’t consider yourself so. The “or both” has the implied situation where someone can be solely Irish. > > So it is entirely possible to be from Northern Ireland and not be British. Apparently. According to Wikipedia, which is good enough for me. I’m happy for someone to show that Wikipedia is wrong and, if possible, update the page though. > > Additionally, I’d be interested in how many people in Northern Ireland have renounced British citizenship if they had it. But that’s identity. You can ask to be accepted as whatever national identity you want, but that doesn’t mean you’re not a British citizen. It’s perfectly possible to be a British citizen and not identify as British - I know some English people who are adamantly not British too - but it doesn’t change their legal citizenship. The ‘whether they like it or not’ bit in the video implies to me that they’re talking about legal citizenship only, not what people _want_ to be accepted as. It’s also perfectly possible to be from NI and not be a citizen of that country, but that applies to every country in the world; it’s redundant to say ‘apart from people who weren’t born in the country and don’t have a parent from this country and haven’t met any of the other requirements for citizenship, the people in this country are [whatever] citizens.’ > [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Leaving aside the complication of recent immigrants I’d suggest that everyone of the Northern Irish ilk is British politically while also being Irish culturally. By that I mean a Republican is still a British citizen if they’re from Northern Ireland while a Loyalist is also culturally Irish. > > In fact didn’t Ian Paisley himself once state that he’d never deny that he’s an Irishman and as an another example Gerry Adams was until very recently a member of the British parliment? > > Had an interesting discussion recently on the rumour that the PSNI is going to move along with the rest of the UK to a standard UK-Wide uniform and in the process lose the distinctive green they currently have, my friend who lives here but is English couldn’t see the problem as he said we’re all part of the UK while my attitude is that although we’re part of the UK Northern Ireland is a seperate and distinct nation _(leaving aside the argument as to whether its a nation or not!)_ within that larger entity and the distinctive uniform should be retained. Gerry Adams was an MP, but Sinn Fein MPs don’t actually take their seats in the House of Commons, meaning that they don’t vote. I’ve known a few Northern Irish people who would be very annoyed by the statement that they were culturally Irish. I agree about NI being a separate nation, btw - it seems that way from cross the water. But then Scotland also seems like a distinct nation to me. (Wales too, but it’s less independent). ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/52 "2011-02-07T22:17:35Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Gerry Adams was an MP, but Sinn Fein MPs don’t actually take their seats in the House of Commons, meaning that they don’t vote. True, though it was kind of amusing watching his recent attempts to resign! > [@SciFiSam](#): > > I’ve known a few Northern Irish people who would be very annoyed by the statement that they were culturally Irish. Naturally. If they don’t accept any other identity than the overarching ‘British’ one they may accept that they are culturally ‘Northern Irish’ but trying to distinguish the Northern Irish culture from that of Ireland in general is asking for another headache, Northern Ireland _(Ulster, the North of Ireland…)_ has very strong cultural links with Scotland though. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > I agree about NI being a separate nation, btw - it seems that way from cross the water. But then Scotland also seems like a distinct nation to me. (Wales too, but it’s less independent). Sure, all four regions are quite distinct but with a shared overarching culture. That includes the Republic of Ireland as well, most people from The UK/Republic wouldn’t have much trouble living and working in another other part of the Hibernanglo Ubergestalt. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/53 "2011-02-07T22:50:29Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > True, though it was kind of amusing watching his recent attempts to resign! What happened with that? Did the Treasury just appoint him to one of the resigning Crown posts without his consent, and since then everyone has just politely decided not to mention it? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/54 "2011-02-07T23:50:00Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > But that’s identity. You can ask to be accepted as whatever national identity you want, but that doesn’t mean you’re not a British citizen. It’s perfectly possible to be a British citizen and not identify as British - I know some English people who are adamantly not British too - but it doesn’t change their legal citizenship. You know some? I’d say most are like that. In fact, most people in the UK (in my experience) claim to be something other than British. I always find myself unusual in that aspect as I was one of the few people I knew that strictly only refers to himself as British as I have split parentage (one from England, one from Scotland). Despite my English accent, to call myself English denies a whole side of my family. Hence British. Anyway I disagree with your statement, mainly due to the disputed and curious nature of Northern Ireland and the agreements made between the Republic and the British. As I said, it is complex. It feels to me that it is more than just “self identification”, it has more of a legal standing as a way of trying to ease the tensions of the area. In other words there is a big difference between, say, someone self-identifying as Welsh, Scottish or English and someone from Northern Ireland self-identifying as Irish. It is all in the wording of the agreement, “and be accepted as”. Everyone has the right to self-identify as something. I’ve lived in Sweden for the past eleven years and I could self-identify as Swedish, but that doesn’t mean I have the right demand that be accepted by anyone. The Good Friday Agreement is different, it states: > [@](#): > > recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to > identify themselves and **be accepted as** Irish or British [http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf](http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf) As I said before, it is all about that little bit of wording. That is what makes Northern Ireland and nationality a different and quite interesting proposition. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/55 "2011-02-08T00:01:22Z")
Forgot to say. Part of my issue also is the matter of fact, like it not “they are British”. A much more accurate description, although I would still dispute it for the reasons given, would be “they are British and may also be Irish”. The way it is presented (from emory here, I can’t be arsed to go back and watch it again) is more “they are British. They may claim otherwise, but they are British”, _as if all they are_ is British, whereas based on their birth in the exact geographical area we are talking about they may have additional citizenship. Something that (going from memory) isn’t mentioned at all. That is different from, say, someone being from the UK but additionally having, say, Swedish citizenship as _they couldn’t get the Swedish citizenship based on their parents being from the UK and being born in the UK_. Like it or not, it is an unusual situation and the way it is presented, in a video that claims to clear it all up, actually hides some of the more interesting aspects and as such leaves the viewer with completely the wrong impression. But anyway, time for bed. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/56 "2011-02-08T01:55:14Z")
I kinda identify as British rather than English too, for the the exact same reason as you. And I see where you’re coming from - it’s not quite the same as other British people identifying by their constituent country. But, thing is, the video doesn’t say ‘they are British.’ It says ‘they are British citizens.’ The video is only about who gets to be a British citizen and so on, nothing deep about personal identities, which is a good thing too, since I don’t think anyone who coloured NI Irish would be too well-informed. @Disposable Hero: Yeah, there is a hell of a lot of shared culture between all of the islands. Still, I think the Catholic thing does make somewhat of a difference; I mean, it wasn’t that long ago that divorce was legalised in the Republic; plus the North was always much more industrial and it’s been changed by all those years under ‘the Troubles.’ TBH, before I made NI friends who were very strongly British, I hadn’t really considered just how many differences there were, and tended to thinking of NI more a a stolen part of Ireland than anything else, which was a rather simplistic POV. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/57 "2011-02-08T03:05:55Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > He didn’t say most people _do_ he said most people _can_ which I think is an accurate statement. Sorry, my bad. Didn’t read carefully enough. I’ve teased my boyfriend about being British before (“Look, it says here on your passport!”) but it seems to be a sensitive subject in Northern Ireland, so I avoid it altogether by pretending I can’t speak English when I’m over there. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/58 "2011-02-08T03:30:23Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > This thread is starting to give me the impression that people from Ireland, north and south, are a liable to take exception to pretty much anything. They _do_ have a reputation as “Fighting Irish”, y’know … > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I’ve teased my boyfriend about being British before (“Look, it says here on your passport!”) but it seems to be a sensitive subject in Northern Ireland, so I avoid it altogether by pretending I can’t speak English when I’m over there. 😛 Reminds me of the old joke (sing along if you know the words) : Man walks down the street in Belfast when he feels a gun in his back and a menacing voice behind him “Protestant or Catholic?” “Uh, oh” thinks our hero, “I’m doomed. Whichever one I pick, it’ll turn out to be the wrong one.” Finally, he comes up with an idea. “Actually, I’m Jewish.” The menacing voice behind him turns happy. “Well, praise be t’Allah! I must be the luckiest Muslim in all o’ Ireland!” ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/59 "2011-02-08T08:26:54Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > They _do_ have a reputation as “Fighting Irish”, y’know … Drawing from the length of history they also have a reputation for being lazy, stupid, barbaric, baby murdering slaves of the Pope. So I try to think of them without preconceptions on the basis that they may very well be incorrect. 😉 > [@](#): > > Reminds me of the old joke (sing along if you know the words) : > > Man walks down the street in Belfast when he feels a gun in his back and a menacing voice behind him “Protestant or Catholic?” > > “Uh, oh” thinks our hero, “I’m doomed. Whichever one I pick, it’ll turn out to be the wrong one.” Finally, he comes up with an idea. > > “Actually, I’m Jewish.” > > The menacing voice behind him turns happy. “Well, praise be t’Allah! I must be the luckiest Muslim in all o’ Ireland!” The other variant being: Man walks down the street in Belfast when he feels a gun in his back and a menacing voice behind him “Protestant or pig?” “Uh, oh” thinks our hero, “I’m doomed. Whichever one I pick could be the wrong one as he might be saying pig to try and trap me”. Finally, he comes up with an idea. “Actually, I’m Jewish.” The other man pauses for a bit before saying “Jewish Protestant, or Jewish pig?” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/60 "2011-02-08T16:01:52Z")
Chiming in on the ancient history aspect discussed (way) above: The Celtic inhabitants of the, er, islands in question before the Anglo-Saxon invasions were not all British. There were speakers of Brythonic Celtic throughout most of Great Britain and some of Ireland, and Goidelic speakers throughout most of Ireland and possibly some of Great Britain. Add a few non-Celts into the mix (leftover Romans and the like), too. “British Isles” may not seem like a political term, but it came into being to cover the islands governed from Great Britain later in history when the term “British” had already shifted away from meaning “non-English”. “Celtic Isles” would work much better than British if you wanted a neutral term, because (a) there’s no modern ethnic group called “the Celts” and (b) when the isles in question enter recorded history, they seem to have been entirely Celtic, and none of the other islands in the North Atlantic can make that claim. If you’re worried that the English will feel left out you could call them the “Anglo-Celtic Isles.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869.md?page=4)