# At last! A clear Explanation of the Difference Between England, the UK, Great Britain, etc... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 2, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869 "2011-02-02T06:39:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/61 "2011-02-08T16:56:17Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Chiming in on the ancient history aspect discussed (way) above: > > The Celtic inhabitants of the, er, islands in question before the Anglo-Saxon invasions were not all British. There were speakers of Brythonic Celtic throughout most of Great Britain and some of Ireland, and Goidelic speakers throughout most of Ireland and possibly some of Great Britain. Add a few non-Celts into the mix (leftover Romans and the like), too. > > “British Isles” may not seem like a political term, but it came into being to cover the islands governed from Great Britain later in history when the term “British” had already shifted away from meaning “non-English”. “Celtic Isles” would work much better than British if you wanted a neutral term, because (a) there’s no modern ethnic group called “the Celts” and (b) when the isles in question enter recorded history, they seem to have been entirely Celtic, and none of the other islands in the North Atlantic can make that claim. If you’re worried that the English will feel left out you could call them the “Anglo-Celtic Isles.” :: pokes head above ramparts :: Thanks, **Dr Drake**. In my Canadian-of-English-descent\* naïveté, I thought that “British” (that is, non-English) was the best choice for the name of the Isles. I stand educated! And we _really_ need to email the author of that video. [sub]\*not the same as English-Canadian![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/62 "2011-02-09T15:22:36Z")
I always thought that historically, Celts were a language and a culture not a people. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/63 "2011-02-09T15:33:15Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I always thought that historically, Celts were a language and a culture not a people. That’s basically true,\* but “Celts” is kind of a convenient catch-all term used for “people who spoke a Celtic language and presumably had quite similar cultures.” So in modern times it’s the name for a set of linguistically related ethnic groups, but it’s not an ethnic group in and of itself. It’s the subject of a lot of argument but there’s nothing better. \*The root “Celt” does show up in specific ancient tribal and place-names, but only for a subset of Celts, never for all Celtic-speaking peoples, and Celts as a whole don’t have a reconstructable name for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/64 "2011-02-09T20:49:19Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > You have never heard it? :dubious: > > In any case, it isn’t a “claim.” “British Isles” is a geographic term, not a political one. Like Vancouver is an American isle 🙂 (tell that to the Canadians) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/65 "2011-02-09T22:17:45Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > That’s basically true,\* but “Celts” is kind of a convenient catch-all term used for “people who spoke a Celtic language and presumably had quite similar cultures.” So in modern times it’s the name for a set of linguistically related ethnic groups, but it’s not an ethnic group in and of itself. It’s the subject of a lot of argument but there’s nothing better. I can imagine any attempt at using ‘Celtic Isles’ meeting a lot of resistance in some parts of Northern Ireland! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/66 "2011-02-09T22:54:49Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I can imagine any attempt at using ‘Celtic Isles’ meeting a lot of resistance in some parts of Northern Ireland! Keltic not Seltic 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/67 "2011-02-10T09:46:26Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > Like Vancouver is an American isle 🙂 > > (tell that to the Canadians) “America” accurately applies to three continents. It’s not actually a reference to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/68 "2011-02-10T13:59:44Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > “America” accurately applies to three continents. It’s not actually a reference to the USA. Three? Did we take over Europe while I wasn’t looking? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/69 "2011-02-10T15:14:16Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > “America” accurately applies to three continents. It’s not actually a reference to the USA. Sometimes it is actually a reference to the United States. Sometimes it’s a reference to one of two continents. Like many words – including “British,” as exemplified in this thread – it does not have just one meaning. ---
**Author:** ![nanordcm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ccd318/32.png) [@nanordcm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nanordcm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/70 "2011-02-10T18:41:07Z")
The easiest way to think of it all is this: There are two Islands (for the sake of argument): 1. Ireland (Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland) 2.Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) The United Kingdom is made up is made up of Britain and Northern Ireland. Therefore if you are born in Northern Ireland you are a resident of the UK but you can choose Irish Citizenship. People from Northern Ireland are not British, they are Irish (even Ian Paisley considers himself Irish) but northern Ireland IS in the UK. The term British Isles is a geographical term but still implies that Ireland is part of Britain. Seeing as so many of our recent ancestors died to ensure we are separate from Britain we generally don’t like the term. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/71 "2011-02-10T20:04:40Z")
[/LesNessmanVoice] As God is my witness, I though Central America was a Continent. [\lesnessmanvoice] I am really utterly and totally surprised by this. Did they pull a Pluto on it or something? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/72 "2011-02-10T20:13:33Z")
Nope. Central America has always been considered part of North America. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/73 "2011-02-10T20:17:00Z")
And the reason that Britain is called “Great Britain” is to distinguish it from Lesser Britain, which is the peninsula now called Brittany, in France. So. We need a new name for “the archpelago whose two largest islands are Ireland and Britain”. I think I understand the Irish position on this more now, because I did not associate “British” as _only_ meaning “having to do with the state ruled by the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/74 "2011-02-10T20:33:26Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I can imagine any attempt at using ‘Celtic Isles’ meeting a lot of resistance in some parts of Northern Ireland! How about the Anglo-Celtic Isles? Or are the Orangemen neither Anglo nor Celtic? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/75 "2011-02-10T21:42:06Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > And the reason that Britain is called “Great Britain” is to distinguish it from Lesser Britain, which is the peninsula now called Brittany, in France. > > So. We need a new name for “the archpelago whose two largest islands are Ireland and Britain”. > > I think I understand the Irish position on this more now, because I did not associate “British” as _only_ meaning “having to do with the state ruled by the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. As I said I usually just refer to Britain and Ireland or Ireland and Britain. It’s not all that hard to say. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/76 "2011-02-10T21:48:59Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > As I said I usually just refer to Britain and Ireland or Ireland and Britain. It’s not all that hard to say. 🙂 Yes, but it’s incomplete: it does not include the Isle of Man, which is clearly part of this archipelago however it’s named. How about we call it “Voldemort”, and those that don’t that don’t like it say “the islands that must not be named”? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/77 "2011-02-10T21:59:49Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Yes, but it’s incomplete: it does not include the Isle of Man, which is clearly part of this archipelago however it’s named. > > How about we call it “Voldemort”, and those that don’t that don’t like it say “the islands that must not be named”? Fuck the Isle of Man sez I. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/78 "2011-02-10T23:30:53Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Fuck the Isle of Man sez I. 🙂 Leave the Isle of Man alone, anywhere that has no speed limits on the majority of its roads is alright by me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/79 "2011-02-10T23:50:30Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Leave the Isle of Man alone, anywhere that has no speed limits on the majority of its roads is alright by me. 😉 And it has a beautiful accent. I used to work with a woman from the Isle of Man, and her voice was exquisite. Unfortunately, she returned home to get married… :: broken heart :: ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869/80 "2011-02-10T23:57:30Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > As I said I usually just refer to Britain and Ireland Quite reasonable, old chap > [@](#): > > or Ireland and Britain. YOU FOOKING BASTARD! note: this was a joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-a-clear-explanation-of-the-difference-between-england-the-uk-great-britain-etc/569869.md?page=5)