# At last, responsibility comes to the American police **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 22, 2017, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872 "2017-07-22T09:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/21 "2017-07-24T00:56:10Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So that their pension funds can be lost when the city is sued over the fired cop? > > Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk If that is what is ultimately takes to increase safety for the general public, then so be it. The union can take out malpractice insurance if necessary. Bad cops need to be held accountable and never allowed to be cops again. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/22 "2017-07-24T00:58:44Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > If that is what is ultimately takes to increase safety for the general public, then so be it. The union can take out malpractice insurance if necessary. Bad cops need to be held accountable and never allowed to be cops again. What I’m saying is that you’re creating a negative incentive since the cop’s pension is being effected if he turns in bad cops. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/23 "2017-07-24T04:09:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > After the death of an Australian woman, the senior police officer in Minneapolis has [resigned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/22/justine-damond-shooting-minneapolis-police-chief-resigns-at-mayors-request), though she had to be asked to do so. > > I think this is a good thing and senior officers should be held accountable for the actions of the rank and file. First off, the investigation into the shooting has yet to be completed. How can you say anyone is at fault when you don’t know the outcome of the investigation? Secondly, the chief & senior officers should only be held accountable if it is shown that the officer who shot followed policy. Do you know if this is the case? Undoubtedly you don’t, as the results of the investigation aren’t out yet. Secondly, I doubt you know anything about police policies on Use Of Force (UOF). Igor hit it right on the head when he said that this was nothing more than appeasing the mob mentality before information is available. If the officer is shown to have violated department policy, will you resign for saying she should have been fired? ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/24 "2017-07-24T22:00:41Z")
A big part in Harteau’s firing (sorry, resignation) was how slow she was to return to the job. It was five (?) days that she was essentially out-of-contact. Like other Minnesotans, I assumed she was in the [BWCA](http://bwca.com/) which is very remote and has no or little cell phone coverage. Instead, she was in Colorado and had internet connectivity. The original statements said she wasn’t available for personal reasons, and avoided using the word “vacation”. If she hadn’t resigned, the good people of Minnesota would have been pissed, if for no other reason that she was on vacation somewhere besides Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![Scoobysnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Scoobysnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoobysnax)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/25 "2017-07-24T22:14:20Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > If she hadn’t resigned, the good people of Minnesota would have been pissed, if for no other reason that she was on vacation somewhere besides Minnesota. If you are employed by the state its residents frown upon vacationing elsewhere? I have been to Minnesota and lived in the prairies, sometimes you need to see a mountain or visit the ocean. If nothing else, escape the damn mosquitoes in the summer. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/26 "2017-07-24T22:19:21Z")
I don’t get that either (the vacation thing), but there was already a lot of tension between the chief and the mayor over other issues. As I’ve said before the Minneapolis Police have always had issues with civilian oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/27 "2017-07-30T03:33:47Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …But if this is what it takes to make people take police brutality seriously, then at least it is something. And yet some are still trying to [downplay it](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/21/justine-damond-didnt-have-to-die-says-minneapolis-police-chief). > [@](#): > > Damond’s death, the third at the hands of a Minnesota police officer in less than two years, also prompted comments by Michele Bachmann, a former Republican presidential candidate and US representative from Minnesota. > > Bachmann, speaking at a Republican hog roast in Waconia, Minnesota, on Wednesday, called Noor an “affirmative-action hire by the hijab-wearing mayor of Minneapolis”, the Star Tribune reported. Noor is Somali-American. But, then again, Ms. Bachman is famous for issuing inappropriate comments. –G! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/28 "2017-07-30T03:43:14Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If the payouts for police brutality start coming out of police pension funds rather than city funds, then you will see departments get serious about stopping police brutality. Right now they have nothing to lose. That’s about the most brilliant idea I’ve heard in a long time. > [@drewder](#): > > What I’m saying is that you’re creating a negative incentive since the cop’s pension is being effected if he turns in bad cops. Are you suggesting that cops are ratting out other cops now? Not a chance. They already have a huge negative incentive. This helps to balance it out. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/29 "2019-06-07T23:57:49Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > A former Minneapolis police officer convicted of killing the Australian life coach Justine Damond apologized to her family for “taking the life of a perfect person”, just before a judge rejected defense requests for a light sentence and ordered him to prison for 12 and a half years. > > Mohamed Noor was convicted in April of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the July 2017 shooting of Damond, who approached his squad car in the alley behind her home after calling 911 to report a possible rape. > **[Minneapolis police officer who killed Justine Damond given 12-year jail term](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/07/justine-damond-death-mohamed-noor-minneapolis)** > > Mohamed Noor, who was convicted in April over death of Australian life coach, apologised in court for ‘taking the life of a perfect person’ ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/30 "2019-06-08T00:37:50Z")
While I’m eased that a police officer has finally been held accountable for an on-duty shooting, I’m curious what makes this case different from all the other shootings by police. Surely there was some factor in this case that made it possible for these prosecutors to succeed where so many others have failed. I must ponder this. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/31 "2019-06-08T03:14:02Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > While I’m eased that a police officer has finally been held accountable for an on-duty shooting, I’m curious what makes this case different from all the other shootings by police. Surely there was some factor in this case that made it possible for these prosecutors to succeed where so many others have failed. I must ponder this. They rolled up and shot the person who reported the crime. The vast majority of police shootings are easily justified. Some are mistakes, some are poor judgement under the circumstances and a few are probably exploiting an opportunity where they can get away with ending a known bad guys career. This shooting falls into a “mistake/poor judgement” but a really egregious example of it. His partner drew in response to a noise but kept his gun down, Mohammed Nor fired and hit Ms Diamond, killing her. The most of police shootings where lethal force is questioned, it still involves someone who is a suspect in a crime, where things get out of hand. People with criminal records, rarely make sympathetic victims, even when lethal force was not called for. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/32 "2019-06-08T03:19:46Z")
It always seemed like an open and shut case. Shooting an unarmed person in their pajamas is indefensible. I’m surprised this case even went to trial. It should have been plea bargained. Same thing with the Dallas cop that went into the wrong apartment and shot her downstairs neighbor. I fully expect a conviction. Amber Guyger goes to trial in September. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/33 "2019-06-08T04:22:31Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > While I’m eased that a police officer has finally been held accountable for an on-duty shooting, I’m curious what makes this case different from all the other shootings by police. Surely there was some factor in this case that made it possible for these prosecutors to succeed where so many others have failed. I must ponder this. White victim, black police officer. Pretty white female victim. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/34 "2019-06-08T04:29:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > White victim, black police officer. > Pretty white female victim. Meh, Michael Slager was sentenced to 20 years in prison, and he was a white guy that shot a black guy (Walter Scott). I suspect race had little to do with it and that both cases hinged primarily on the egregious nature of the shootings. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/35 "2019-06-08T05:13:33Z")
12 years? What a fucking joke! ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/36 "2019-06-08T05:29:01Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > White women"s lives matter! I get what you’re saying it’s similar to missing white woman syndrome, but I don’t really get the cheap shot honestly. With the rise of camera phones and body cams, police officers are increasingly being held under closer scrutiny and being prosecuted and sentenced for racially motivated killings of minorities. Now I think personally they still end up often getting what amounts to a slap on the wrist for murder, getting very light sentences, even the cop in this case I believe got a very light sentence. But at the end of the day she was a human being, deserving some measure of dignity and didn’t deserve what happened to her and it was totally unnecessary. Are you angry that the cop was prosecuted, would you have had it go some other way and he went free or was acquitted? I’ve long held the position that police have become increasingly militarized in their treatment of all people, not just minorities but I’m willing to recognize they probably bare more of the brunt of civil liberties violations and mistreatment by law enforcement. I think independent investigators or state police need to take over such cases and not the local prosecutors or district attorneys or whatever they’re called should be the ones to investigate crimes like these and not the local boys as there is a conflict of interest. She was an innocent woman that lost her life and the person that took it needs to face responsibility for the crime he committed. It just seems like a very dehumanizing comment to make, she deserved to have justice served just like anybody else. No man is an island and all that jazz. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/37 "2019-06-08T22:47:23Z")
As a local to the event, I actually think 12 years is fair. Why? Well, a lot of it has to do with police training. Our local forces have investigated, and found wrong, in the way they train police officers to treat everyone as suspicious, potential terrorists and are redesigning the program. Then, there is the fact that they accepted Mr. Noor into the program without paying attention to his mental profile. They chose the wrong man for the job. I feel bad for Mr. Noor as he was trying to do a good job but did end up doing the exact wrong thing despite good intentions. I feel very bad for the family of the deceased woman, who’s lives will now be far different than planned. There was no way anybody was going to come out of this case without hurt. But it has caused the community and the police force to address a vital issue and work to make things better. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/38 "2019-06-09T00:15:40Z")
What does a 12 year sentence mean in terms of actual years in prison in Minnesota? Does it mean he will probably be paroled in 5 years? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/39 "2019-06-09T01:36:20Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > … I feel bad for Mr. Noor as he was trying to do a good job but did end up doing the exact wrong thing despite good intentions. … What have you read / seen that led to these conclusions about Noor’s intentions? ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872/40 "2019-06-09T02:13:51Z")
PastTense, I’m not certain about the time. I know someone who had a 10-year sentence who was out in 7-1/2, with no demerits on his record. It was as fast as he could get out. So, maybe 8 years? HD, I’d rather not describe how I came to that conclusion, but it is my own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/at-last-responsibility-comes-to-the-american-police/791872.md?page=3)